Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

[mongerer]

Hi, I’m new to the forums and would like to say how impressive the quality of advice is available here.
I got saddled with some severe debts when I had cancer in 2007 and was unable to work and I’m now on benefits. One of the debts from that time is a Robinson Way (ex Cap 1[2001]) to which I have been making a small monthly contribution.
On 27 May I sent them a cca request for a copy of my agreement. They responded on 3 June saying they had asked Cap 1 for the agreement, and again on 7 July saying they had not yet received it.
Next I received a letter dated 19 July which included a copy of my application form stapled to a set of T&Cs.
The T&Cs had been personalised by making Para 1 read “This Agreement is between * my name and address * and us”.
Para 2 then goes on to define “us” as Cap 1.
They also go on to say that “We will set out and tell you the credit limit for your account” but no credit limit is actually specified within the T&Cs and I believe this would then have been done on the card carrier.
There is also a table that illustrates the current interest rates depending upon the level of credit granted.
I believe the repayment terms are probably adequately covered.
There are no signatures on the T&Cs and nothing to tie them to the application other than the inclusion of my details in Para 1, which must have been done at a later date because the T&C’s included on the back of the application form could not have included that information at that time, and nothing to tie them to a specific date.

The declaration on the Application form, quite commonly, states that “I have read the T&Cs setting out the Agreement with Cap 1and, if my application is accepted, I agree to be bound by these T&Cs….”.

All pretty standard stuff I know, and as far as I can see this does not constitute a compliant cca both in terms of not containing all of the prescribed terms, and by not being properly executed. But what is bothering me is that the apparent “Agreement” on the application form carries the facsimile of a signature on behalf of Cap 1 and I just wander whether they may have any hope of a case.

I would be very pleased to receive some guidance.

[dantheman]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

I have exactly the same An application for seperate to the T&C which is unsigned and has no date on. I have received in addition a copy of the current T&C which is undated and unsigned. According to Curlyben this is all toilet paper. The other factor I was looking at was that my CMC at the time sent an application under s.77/78 for the agreement - which gives them 12 + 2, then a further calendar from that date to supply the CCA if the CCA was taken out prior to 2007. As such they also failed to do this - So it looks like they are whistling in the wind.

I'm sure that it is the same for you - I have been advised - Do not speak to idiots on the phone, all in writing, any further letter from them and other disputed CCAs account send account in dispute/I do not recognise the debt etc.

Hope this helps.

D

[mongerer]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

I’ve had a look at Curlyben’s posts on dantheman’s thread "Kerobo letter to Cabot" (sorry I missed it!) and it is certainly relevant.
RW are now pestering me twice daily with telephone calls (ignored) and letters demanding payment and before I take the next step detailed in Curlyben’s excellent guide I would just like some confirmation the papers they sent me could in no way be construed as a compliant CCA.

They have now sent another copy of my application together with a different version of the T&Cs where the illustrative interest rates and fees are different to the previous set. These may be pertaining to those in force at the time of the application but they don’t satisfy any more requirements than the first set.

[dantheman]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

Maybe you should upload to Curlyben and let him have a look - In the meantime - it's in dispute. I found that when I said - wait or take me to court - they chose to wait. Cabot have been on my back for a year and despite suggesting they take me to court for a CCJ or bankrupt me - they have chosen just to keep making the phone calls and send demanding letters. It's all about fear and it's stuck in my craw for long enough - Good luck my friend and don't let the ba****ds grind you down.

D

[Curlyben]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

Okie dokie.
Can you post the "agreement" ?

When the monkeys call again stay calm and inform them that you require ALL communications to be in writing for the avoidance of doubt and you will not discuss financial matters over the phone. This is your right. They wont like it, but tough. Don't be drawn to make any further comments, just keep to your insistence.

Anyway, sounds like they are having slight "issues" working out which set of T&C's actually apply to your account.
As per the recent carey case, to comply with s78 of CCA they must supply both the T&C from opening and the T&C's currently in force, along with a true copy of the agreement, this CAN be the application.

[mongerer]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

Thanks Curlyben, I'll do it right now.

[mongerer]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

"This is the agreement".
The first set of T&Cs they sent me contained wrong illustrative interest rates and extra charges.
The second set had the correct figures for the date of the application.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

In order to fulfil their obligations under Section 78 of the Act (CCA), you must be provided with the inception terms and conditions and the terms as varied.
As per the Cancellation Notices and Copy Document Regs 1983; Reg 7.

Robinson Way, know this but continue to chance their arm...
many are in the same boat!

[mongerer]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

The Cancellation Notices and Copy Document Regs 1983 look interesting and is probably why they sent 2 lots of T&Cs.
The following may be relevant. The a/c was opened in Jan 02. In Nov 05 a replacement card was lost in the post. They cancelled the A/c and opened a new one with a different A/c No. I had no involvement in this, they just sent the new card with the new number on a card carrier.
The Statement of Account I requested from RW is comprehensive and details all transactions up until the date of transfer to RW (it does not show the subsequent payments to RW which they could easily provide). However, The S of A shows the later replacement A/c no for all entries prior to it being issued when in fact it was a different (the original) A/c no. They appear to be unaware that the A/c was closed and a new one opened. I'm not able to verify what the T&Cs were at that time.

[Curlyben]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

Agreement:



So unless the actual T&C's can be defiantly linked then they are onto a complete looser here.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

The inception terms and conditions, issue December 01 or, January 02 would have to be provided.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
My response, to the Loo Roll:

Quite so, curly!

[mongerer]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

I love that picture! Thanks.
As a point of interest, could it be possible for them to 'reconstitute' a properly executed cca as the only thing I have ever signed is the application form and nowhere on that or on any T&Cs is specified a Credit Limit? Carey doesn't negate the need for a properly executed cca to actually exist does it?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
I mean irrespective of whether the T&Cs can be linked.

[Curlyben]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

How can you recon something that never actually existed ??

[Angry Cat]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

A credit agreement cannot be re-constructed without the inception T&C's!

[mongerer]

Re: Robinson Way (Ex Cap 1)

Curlyben - your a star. Thank you.