OFT v Banks Judgment 25th November 2009 - 9.45am- Supreme Court - Test case

[stewie082]

Bank charges:

The following judgment will be given on Wednesday 25 November 2009 at 9.45 am:

Office of Fair Trading (Respondents) v Abbey National plc and others (Appellants)

http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/

[Amethyst]

New thread started for the Supreme Court Judgment build up.......


1st Question - how do i get a train from here to central london before 9.30am AND get the kids to school ? hmmmmm (why can't they do these things at midday)

[natweststaffmember]

This decision is the half way point in the OFT test case.
Expect as well advice from the Master of the Rolls to the County Courts.

I fully expect the STAYS to remain in place.

[EXC]

And everyone can rest assured that this website will be the very first to announce the result of the judgment.

[natweststaffmember]

Originally Posted by EXC

And everyone can rest assured that this website will be the very first to announce the result of the judgment.

Will there be text alerts for those not able to get to the web for sometime after the judgement?


......like me for one

[echat11]

Also, The Supreme Court are charging £350 for transcripts. In other courts you only pay for the photocopying.

[EXC]

I doubt if the judgment hearing will consist of anything more than Lord Phillips reading the final page of the judgment which will be published anyway.

Although there's been some controversy regarding the cost of Supreme Court documents the transcripts for the first instance test case hearing cost £650.

[ROBSTER]

ROCK & ROLL LBs

FIRST WITH THE NEWS AGAIN!

[dad]

Well I will be there.

Dad

[maggiemay48]

Originally Posted by stewie082

Bank charges:

The following judgment will be given on Wednesday 25 November 2009 at 9.45 am:

Office of Fair Trading (Respondents) v Abbey National plc and others (Appellants)

http://www.supremecourt.gov.uk/

Is this the final one?Or Have we still we still got long way to go?


thank you

[ROBSTER]

Originally Posted by natweststaffmember

This decision is the half way point in the OFT test case.
Expect as well advice from the Master of the Rolls to the County Courts.

I fully expect the STAYS to remain in place.

There you go Maggie

[natweststaffmember]

Originally Posted by maggiemay48

Is this the final one?Or Have we still we still got long way to go?


thank you

If there is no referral to the ECJ(only the court can do that), the banks' fail in their appeal, then we move onto secondary issues or what is called the Substantive issues.

[maggiemay48]

There i am spending my money.Before i have even got it! Oh!Well not to worry.theres no harm in dreaming.I wonder will i still be alive when the case is settled?

[Amethyst]

Have added to the story up on the homepage now - if anyone thinks I need change anything just yell at me, please!, my brains gone swashy today

The long awaited judgment in the battle between the seven largest banks and the Office of Fair Trading will be handed down on Wednesday 25th November in the new Supreme Courts of Justice. The Judgment will not mean the end of the wait for consumers hoping for refunds of unfair bank charges taken from them by the banks, but if the judgment is in the OFT's favour it will be a massive step forwards.

In August 2008 the OFT informed the banks that in its initial findings the terms providing for the charges being applied were unfair. The Supreme Court Judgment will tell the banks if the terms are capable of being assessed under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations. If the Judgment confirms the OFT's view then the OFT will ask banks for voluntary compliance in refunding historical charges and amending future charging structures and levels of fees to a fair level. If the Banks refuse, then the OFT have the option of taking their findings back to court to be ruled upon.

This is an extemely important judgment with far reaching implications, whichever way it goes, however it is not the end of the road by any means.

Legal Beagles will be attending the handing down of the Judgment and keeping our members up to date via the forum and through Twitter.

Robster I don't think we were first to post it up, Marc on CAG mentioned middle of next week at about half twelve today, I havent read the MSE story as yet, but we wanted to wait for the supreme court listings to confirm it before getting everyone all excited.

[natweststaffmember]

Originally Posted by maggiemay48

There i am spending my money.Before i have even got it! Oh!Well not to worry.theres no harm in dreaming.I wonder will i still be alive when the case is settled?

I think you will be.

[Amethyst]

Also wanted to add that the OFT have said that if the Judgment is in favour of the banks they will be looking at the charges under competition rules, so its by no means ''D Day'' to quote "This is Money".

[natweststaffmember]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

Also wanted to add that the OFT have said that if the Judgment is in favour of the banks they will be looking at the charges under competition rules, so its by no means ''D Day'' to quote "This is Money".

Absolutely and this was covered in Day Three of the House of Lords Appeal. The Banks' winning may not be the end of the matter because they are still concerned by the interplay of charges ie one charge triggers another one.

[shooter]

Originally Posted by natweststaffmember

If there is no referral to the ECJ(only the court can do that), the banks' fail in their appeal, then we move onto secondary issues or what is called the Substantive issues.

Anyone got any Ideas how long the next part will take??

Shooter

[natweststaffmember]

"That may be a convenient moment to answer a question
21 which I left over from yesterday from my Lord Mance as
22 to the extent to which the OFT could pursue a fairness
23 assessment of the relevant terms, even if this appeal
24 succeeds and the OFT's case fails.
25 The position that the OFT takes on that is that, in
110
1 light of the accumulation of factors one has just been
2 going through in paragraph 81, the OFT's position is
3 that the assessment that the relevant charges are unfair
4 based on the matters that presently cause it concern
5 would not be excluded by article 4(2), even if
6 your Lordships were to conclude that the charges are the
7 price for services supplied in exchange within the
8 meaning of the exemption."

Amethysts point, day 3 House of Lords Appeal, page 109-110

[davidl]

wouldent it be funny if the test case went the way of the banks or the outcome of the oft's investiagtion found that bank charges were fair all this waiting around and he/she said this and years of campaining for nothing it scares me even thinking about it!

[natweststaffmember]

Originally Posted by davidl

wouldent it be funny if the test case went the way of the banks or the outcome of the oft's investiagtion found that bank charges were fair all this waiting around and he/she said this and years of campaining for nothing it scares me even thinking about it!

Well, they have already said that they believe them to be unfair so your point is not particularly that relevant to be honest. Nice post btw cos I thought for a nanosecond you were being serious

[davidl]

Natwest staff member i just have this niggling fear in the back of my mind that we will lose hope not though for obvious reasons.

[shooter]

Originally Posted by natweststaffmember

"That may be a convenient moment to answer a question
21 which I left over from yesterday from my Lord Mance as
22 to the extent to which the OFT could pursue a fairness
23 assessment of the relevant terms, even if this appeal
24 succeeds and the OFT's case fails.
25 The position that the OFT takes on that is that, in
110
1 light of the accumulation of factors one has just been
2 going through in paragraph 81, the OFT's position is
3 that the assessment that the relevant charges are unfair
4 based on the matters that presently cause it concern
5 would not be excluded by article 4(2), even if
6 your Lordships were to conclude that the charges are the
7 price for services supplied in exchange within the
8 meaning of the exemption."

Amethysts point, day 3 House of Lords Appeal, page 109-110

Nattie just wondering if this was in answer to my question cause if so I don't get it.

I was asking cause like everyone else was wondering is it will be this decade or next?

shooter

[Amethyst]

We have in many ways already won... look at the massive changes in many areas of the finance industry since this began full swing in 2006, due in part to the credit Card Default charges investigation by the OFT and the huge profile legal case that Stephen Hone took at the end of 2005 which was settled out of court. Increased regulation and guidance from the regulators and the OFT. Consumers awareness of many other areas is much greater now too, due in part to the publicity of the bank charges issues and the growth of consumer forums. How many people do we see come here to ask for help reclaiming charges who then go on to sort out bailiffs, reposession and massive debt problems.

If we 'lose' in court we have managed to change the future of banking for the better and that is something we should all be very proud of.

Have to say I'm still stuck 50/50 on the judgment being one way or t'other.

[Amethyst]

shooter - no one really knows, the banks could agree with the oft and voluntarily pay people back or they could fight tooth and nail and drag it out another year.