Ruby v Capital One

[Ruby]

I have a similar problem as Mike, Cap One debt has been passed to Capquest. Cap One have only sent me a copy of an mail-shot application form which they claim is a 'true copy of the CCA' it has no presribed terms but has my signature on it. I have written to Cap One and am still awaiting a reply but in the meantime the debt without my knowledge has been transferred to Capquest. So far They have given me seven days before calling me again as on their records they cannot find any evidence of my letter. I said that the matter was with Cap One NOT with them and my communications will continue with Cap One until my complaint was resolved. Capquest were not happy with this, they claim that all correspondence should be with them now! A few months ago I challenged Cap One about charges which would have written half my debt off with them but they only refused to give me a poultry £90 refund. I signed the letter accepting it after challenging them for more but they refused to budge and now the matter has escalated to all this nonsense! The debt is just under £800 but I am having financial hardship and since they don't have an enforceable CCA I don't see why I should have to pay them a penny more. Its their stupid call centres on the other side of the planet with their bully-superior type attitude that really got up my nose!

[Tools]

Ruby v Capital One

Starting a new thread for Ruby

[Budgie]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

Let's also get the ball rolling for the return of the rest of the amounts owed to you on your charges claim Ruby.

Did you prepare a spreadsheet listing all of your charges?

It may well be that you are actually owed more than you think you are.
Did you add any interest to your claim?

If the total of your charges plus any interest due is close to or exceeds the balance outstanding on your account then that fact combined with the possibility of an unenforcable CCA would combine to make a pretty strong case out for not paying them a further penny.

Budgie

Please let me know if you would like me to assist you from the return of charges point of view.

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

YES PLEASE! From memory all I did was go through my statements and wrote to them a letter listing the charges and the date they were applied. I tend to hold onto the statements! The charges I listed were late payment/over limit charges. With interest calculated in April 2009 the total was £456.09.

Their response:-

When we opened your account in July 2003, we sent you a credit card agreement which stated these default sums. By signing and returning this to us, you agreed to the terms and conditions for the account, including the default sums.

As you're probably aware the Office of Fair Trading, OFT, hasn't challenged the right of banks to charge default sums, but merely the level of those default sums. Although we feel £20 is a just amount we've now reduced our default sums to £12. I appreciate that you've incurred previous default sums at the higher rate, and would like to address this.

I've reviewed your account and, as a matter of goodwill, I'd like to reduce the default sums we've added to your account to £12 each. This amount totals £72.00.

As I mentioned previously I did challenge them however they did not budge.

In 5 August 2009 I sent them a letter asking them to provide me with a true copy of my credit agreement.

They sent me a letter which was addressed to me with my credit limit, account number and T & C's to the back. I wrote to them again stating that what they sent me was not a true copy of the agreement and it was not signed by neither myself or them. After a few letters to and fro in 9 September 2009 their letter stated the following:

We have previously provided you with the current agreement which complies to Section 78. However, although not required under Section 78, I am enclosing a true copy of the original executed agreement, comprising the scanned image of the signature page of the executed agreement together with the terms and conditions.

It goes on to say that if I am still not satisfied I can refer the matter to FOS.

What they included with this letter were five pages of generic T & C's and a mail shot application form signed by both parties. Apart from the signatures the photocopy of the one sided form has my name and address, reference number and immediately underneath 'Application closes 12th August 2003.' My phone number, employment details follow and details if I want to do a balance transfer and to who. The box below states however 'Credit Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974' with reference how my details will be checked with fraud prevention agencies and credit reference agencies.

Sorry that I do not have a scanner at home so I can't scan the docs.

I would much appreciate any help you can provide.

[WendyB]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

To be honest Ruby if you'd filed at court thwey would have caved in and paid up. Oh well never mind that's done and dusted now.Start again, send new prelim, lba etc. If they give you an offer accept it as a partial only and send them a letter stating this, refer to OFT report 2006 (the relevant paragraph can be found on my Crap One and MBNA threads.) They won't take any notice of this either but at least you will have made an effort with them. Then file at court., As Budgie says, combined with the lack of CCA you're probably on a winner.

[MIKE770]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

You will probably find Crap 1 will not give partial refund initially, so you would have to go the Court route, they cave in then and refunds your due amount + court costs.:beagle:

[Rohan]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

I found with Cap1 as soon as they received my court papers from the Sheriff Officers they paid out in full, charges +Interest + Sheriff Officers fee and court costs.

[WendyB]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

You will probably find Crap 1 will not give partial refund initially, so you would have to go the Court route, they cave in then and refunds your due amount + court costs.:beagle:

Crap One always offer a partial refund intitially. Well that's in every one I've ever seen, anyway, unless they have now changed their approach.

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

I have just sent off a letter to Crap 1 asking for the remainder of the charges, plus interest to day's date to be paid to me. I have also stated that because they do not have an enforceable CCA on me, to use the remainder of the charges refunded as a full and final settlement for the account. If they do not comply within 14 days I will take court action.

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

Just got a letter back this morning stating that because I had already received a refund of £72 no further refunds will be offered.

They go on to say about having the option of taking the matter up with FOS.

What do I do next, please help.

I have worked out the charges properly for the first time on a spread sheet and at their contractual interest rate my debt with them would be completely wipped off if they repaid back the full charges (circa £800).

Do I go the court route or do I go to the FOS?

I have absolutely no knowledge of how to even start a court case against them.

[MIKE770]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

Just got a letter back this morning stating that because I had already received a refund of £72 no further refunds will be offered.

They go on to say about having the option of taking the matter up with FOS.

What do I do next, please help.

I have worked out the charges properly for the first time on a spread sheet and at their contractual interest rate my debt with them would be completely wipped off if they repaid back the full charges (circa £800).

Do I go the court route or do I go to the FOS?

I have absolutely no knowledge of how to even start a court case against them.

Court route is quicker I understand, I have gone F.O.S route as any refund would only go off a balance, see what others say???:beagle:

[Budgie]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

definitely the court route ruby. Am tied up until this evening but will have a look through your thread and pop some strategy advice up on the thread. Please can you post up a copy of your spreadsheet with personal details removed. This will make things a lot easier to work. Regards Budgie

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

I used the spreadsheet provided by LB. I don't have a scanner at home unfortunately. The compound interest rate used was 20.57% and calculated to 11/11/09. The charges all were late payment and/or overlimit charges dated from 1/7/04 to 1/4/09. Capquest have not charged anything since them.

I hope this helps a bit.

I am completely at a loss as to how to start the 'court' route.

What Mike says that the refund would only go against the balance if I went FOS route is fine by me as the two amounts are very similar (give or take £30). I just want got rid of Crap One.

Thanks again for all your help, it is much appreciated.

[Ruby]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

Sorry, I'm a bit of a techno-phobe! Got hubby to sort out how to post the spreadsheet minus personal details, hope this helps.

[Budgie]

Re: Ruby v Capital One

Thanks for posting up spreadsheet Ruby.

Quick question, have you actually sent them a copy of your spreadsheet, IE Do they have any idea that you have calculated matters using a compound interest rate of 20.57% and why did you use that particular rate?



I suggest that we treat the last letter that you sent them as your preliminary letter.

They have responded ( negatively ) to your preliminary letter.

I suggest we now send an LBA.

An outline for the LBA would be as follows

1) Refer to previous correspondance
2) Refer to the fact that despite repeated request by you they have not provided you with a valid CCA
3) Refer to the previous "goodwill gesture payment" made to you.
4) Re state the current value of your claim, calculated based upon return of all charges plus compound interest at ??% ( I think we should use a higher rate - they settled my claim at a rate equivalent to a compound interest rate of 27.5% but if you have already sent them a copy of your spreadsheet we should stick to the 20.57% rate)
5) Do a summary of what you owe them, compared to what they owe you (total of your claim less the gesture of goodwill payment already made to you )

6) State that unless they process your claim, which would effectively write off the balance on your account, close your account and remove any adverse information entered upon your credit file you will take legal action to resolve the matter.

7) State that you are aware that Capital One have settled previous claims against them once the Claimant has filed their claims at the County Court and that you aware that they have at least one judgment against them ( in the County Court ) confirming that they have been "unjustly enriched" by applying these charges.

8) Will leave the rest of the closing paragraph until we have got the rest of the LBA sorted but will come up with a gentle persuader.


If you are happy to go via this route then please have a go at drafting something up which we can then knock into shape.