About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

[ScaredCarer]

Hi all.
I posted the following on moneysavingexpert.com and natweststaffmember asked me to repost it here, as you are fantastic for advice

sooo.... please if anyone can help me - I'm on the verge of a charges avalanche that may mean I can't afford food or utilities....

Ok. Background.
I have three disabled children. Autism and mobility issues.
I have been carer to my eldest (in receipt of carers allowance) for the past two years. DH was in full time employment (although working evenings and weekends to enable him to help me care for the kids too).

DH lost his job in June, he is now registered as our middle child's carer. We get income support to top up our money. Thing is he has to be choosy about the job he gets - he is still looking for work but as he needs evenings/weekends and to be free during the week to help me then JSA was a bit restrictive.

Now, we applied for the carers for him in July, but he won't be paid until 27th October - we'll get a nice lump sum then though thankfully.

So, bills are tight and unfortunately the safety buffer we had on our account has disappeared as we've needed the money for essentials.

On Friday last week Natwest let four direct debits through four days early. I say that as I've checked with online banking and none of the direct debits put through have EVER gone through before the 15th of the month.

Of these four, they bounced three and charged £38 a pop. They did pay one of the direct debits but charged me £30 to do that. They also put a cheque through that I genuinely forgot about (so yes that was my fault). They charged another £30 for that. Then I got a £28 charge for being over my overdraft limit. So.... that's £202 of charges already. These will be taken out on the 25th of this month.

Then, we have a loan with Natwest that is due out on the 20th. They have said they will take this money on the 18th as the 20th is a Sunday. Problem is that because we've had no money since Friday we needed to buy bread, milk and butter.... and fuel to get my daughter to see her consultant tomorrow (can't cancel, he's coming down from London and her renal function urgently needs to be checked). That means we're a few pounds short of the loan payment. I asked them to consider putting the loan through two days later, they refused. They're going to bounce it and charge me £38 then put it through two days later anyway. Then three days later there will be £240 charges and there won't be the money to pay that, then the debit interest and there won't be the money to pay that.....

It's snowballing. At this rate we'll have no money for food or to cover the bills. I've not been in the situation where they've had to turn down a payment in YEARS. I just don't know what to do now.

I feel like every time we're reeling from them charging us then BAM another charge hits us, then it gets worse and worse and worse.....

[Amethyst]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

Morning

have you any more money due in between now and the 25th ? 1st step is to go into town and open a new account - a basic account, and contact your benefits office and get the payments moved over to the new account. Stop the circle of charges. You can pay the loan from another account or in cash/debit card payment.

Thats first main steps to make sure you have money for food etc. If need be use the loan money.

If you really don't want to move banks and you have another income due before the 25th you will need to use your first right of appropriation to make sure they dont take it all. have a look First Right of Appropriation Letters .

Cancel the loan direct debit. If the DD date is a sunday they should take the DD on the Monday - not the Friday. going to check on their terms.

No they shouldnt have put through a Direct Debit early and a very strong complaints letter is needed alongside a full reclaim on hardship grounds for all charges incurred. These are your first charges and you have tried to speak to them about it already to get nowhere, and they shouldn't treat you like this.

We'll help you with the letters, you'll also need to do an income and expenditure sheet which you can find linked from the bar at the top of the forum ( I/E Sheets)

Hope that helps a little for now

Ame
xx

[Amethyst]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

DD guarantee

If a Direct Debit payment has been taken which is not in accordance with the advance notice received i.e. too much has been taken or the payment has been taken on the wrong date you are entitled to an immediate refund of the amount debited from your bank under the Direct Debit Guarantee. If the payment due date falls at a weekend or on a bank holiday the organisation is obliged to debit your account just after the due date, not before, unless they notify you in advance of a change of date.

NATWEST have done this with the loan payment, although I'm not sure how much notice they should give you or gave you. Have a read Incorrect Payments regarding the other payments that Santander and O2 initially took early.


Original Thread on MSE They really do like to keep you in the brown stuff don't they? - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums for reference.

[fuzzybrain]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

If its a natwest account and natwest loan they will not cancel the DD - i tried to do this when i had problems and they kept saying it was one of the conditions to have an active DD from a natwest account.

As Ame says a parchute account is a must, as this will protect you. Personally I would take the money out of the account that will be hit with charges you need to survive on, otherwise it will get swallowed up by charges.

[Amethyst]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

In the natwest terms and conditions they have a clause ''"If required by the Bank the Customer will open and maintain a Current Account with the Bank" theres no requirement to pay from that account, whatever they tell you.

[ScaredCarer]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

What fuzzybrain said is what I was told. I can't change the loan direct debit to another account, it has to come out of that account. I can't change the date at all, I can't opt for weekly payment, it has to stay exactly as it is, set in concrete.

I am waiting on a phone call from the Co-op, I am opening a parachute account with them. Their computer systems were down yesterday so they'll call back today to open the account. I'll then get all my incomings directed straight to the new account.

The letter of appropriation - the money needs to stay in the account to pay the bills, nearly everything is on Direct Debit and I've not had a single problem with things failing before now. Withdrawing over the counter would then mean these bills are unpaid.

Next week I can EITHER meet the loan payment OR the charges. I can't do both. I drafted out the following letter in the small hours of this morning (I couldn't sleep I'm so scared) - do you think it would do any good, or what are your other suggestions?

I write with regard to the above account, with which I have recently experienced some difficulty.
On Friday 11th September, three Direct Debits were presented by o2, Petplan and Santander Cards. Unfortunately I had expected these Direct Debits to go through on Tuesday 15th September and therefore had not budgeted to have funds available in the account until the Tuesday. Then on Monday 14th September a further Direct Debit to o2 was presented and a cheque for £10.

These transactions led me to go over my overdraft limit. Subsequently both o2 Direct Debits were returned unpaid, as was the Santander cards Direct Debit. The Petplan Direct Debit was paid and so was the cheque. However, these transactions left me with charges for 3 x unpaid direct debit fees of £38 each, two referred but paid transaction fees of £30 each and an over limit charge of £28 – as I have been verbally advised yesterday. I am still waiting on written confirmation of the charges applied to the account.

You will note from my account history that this situation hasn't occurred for years - particularly on such a grand scale. Unfortunately due to a change in circumstances – my husband losing his job with Tesco – we no longer have the ‘buffer’ I liked to keep on the account to safeguard against unexpected payments. We are actually entitled to a further £212.40 per month in addition to what is being paid to us by the DWP but this will not swing into action until the end of October. We will be getting a lump sum back payment to July of this £212.40 per month at around the same time – this is when we applied for the benefit but for some reason Income Support has caused complications in the payments starting. Both me and my husband are now registered as carers to two of our three disabled children.

We are currently out of necessity having to run a ‘tight ship’ financially with strict budgeting to prevent this family from real hardship. Our sole income at the moment is purely benefits and charges to the extent that we are faced with will cause huge waves in our finances to the extent where I am really afraid we will not be able to meet our utility or food bills. We also have the loan payment due in the same week the charges are meant to be taken. This will cause a snowball effect in our finances and untold problems in meeting our financial obligations. I am seriously concerned about the charges causing charges causing charges avalanche occurring in this case.

I note the OFT has been bringing test cases regarding excessive bank charges at the High Court, and how the RBS Group and Natwest have pre empted this by reducing their charges as from the 1st October. I note from my observations that what has happened to us this week would cost around £65 in charges rather than the £200 plus that is currently heading our way. This kind of scale of charges is achievable for us without causing extreme hardship.

I would also like to say that as per section 14.2 of the Banking Code I tried to make contact as soon as I realised there was a problem – the morning of Saturday 12th September, I attended Horsham branch as I was unsure whether Henfield was open and was advised that nobody would speak to me until I was back inside my overdraft limit. I am sure you can imagine this was extremely distressing to me as I wanted to try and sort the situation out just as soon as I could – I had to wait a further three days until the funds went into my account on the Tuesday before I could see anyone. Unfortunately to date I have not encountered any sympathy or positivity towards my situation as per section 14.1 hence this letter.... my family really is in trouble unless something is done about the level of charges to be levied on my account.

I ask that you consider my request to review the charges due on my account, and to assist me by bringing them down to a level that I might afford. I have worked through spreadsheets to budget until the end of this year without this weeks’ situation recurring. If you can help me on this matter I can keep afloat financially and keep the account running smoothly. If not then it means absolute financial chaos to my family.

I am hoping that you will assist me in avoiding financial chaos.
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Also I can't see how to thank people.... can someone help?

[Amethyst]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

hi again,

That sounds a very good sensible description of what happened, good to hear you have a parachute account in progress.

I'm not sure your letter will have any effect because they really don't care, nor abide by the banking code it seems - I would be tempted to cc it to the new guy at RBS who introduced the charges Brian Hartzer.

You also need to write to O2, Santander etc and ask why they took the DD's early without any notification and ask them to refund the charges that were applied by your bank for their error.

I'll get the full T&Cs of the Loan account when I get a moment.

[Mochamoo]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

I like the letter, I would put a little bit more emphasis on not being able to buy food for the kids because if the charges but other than that grand x


Under the hardship waiver the banks take in to account:
evidence of changes in lifestyle, including loss of employment; disability; serious illness; imprisonment; relationship breakdown; death of a partner; starting a lower paid job; parental/carer leave; and starting full-time education;

As your partner is no longer in employment this might get you to qualify for a hardship claim might be worth shoving a line in about hardship claim as well just to cover all bases ?

[Budgie]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

Hiya,

I like the letter but agree that whatever you do is probably not going to have any effect on them.

I would suggest the following :-

1) Finish your letter ( address it to the Manager of the Branch where your account is held ). I would not mention anything about the level of charges of other Banks as this might imply that you believe that level of charges to be a fair level, which they are not.

2) Personally take the letter into the Branch and demand to see the Manager whilst you are there.

3) Explain the situation to him and allow him to read the letter whilst you are there. Emphasise the facts that your Husband is now unemployed and that you are both Carers for your disabled children. Say that as this is the first time this has happened for a long while ( years ) you would like them to write off the charges on this occasion. Say that you are expecting matters to improve once the additional payments and back payment from the DWP kick in.

See what the reaction from the Manager is. If he agrees to write off the charges thats your immediate problem solved. You might even ask him if there is any additional help that he can provide until you receive the backpayment from the DWP.

If he doesnt agree to write off the charges then I would suggest the following.

1) Cancel all direct debits ( including the one for the NatWest loan payment ) on the account. That way you will not incur any further charges owing to failed direct debits.

2) Open the parachute account and make sure that all of your income payments are transferred to that new account.

3) Contact the people whose direct debits you have cancelled and advise them that you are changing your bank account, have cancelled the existing direct debits and need to set up a new one from the new account. You can probably do this over the phone with them. Advise them that you would prefer to make the next payment over the counter in a bank to make sure that you keep your accounts up to date.

4) Do not leave any money in your Nat West account.
We can help you with a letter to send to NatWest advising them that because of their attitude regarding these charges you have decided to transfer your business elsewhere. The letter will say something along the lines that you will continue to keep the account open and pay in sufficient money each month to meet the loan obligation but that you do not agree with the charges they are in the process of applying and wish to leave the matter of the payment or writing off of those charges until such time as the matter of the legality of those charges has been decided by the Test Case. You therefore expect that any money you pay into your NatWest account would be used solely for meeting your obligations on the loan account and not for paying charges. If they are not able to agree to this request in writing then you would then make alternative arrangements to pay the monthly loan amount. Maybe over the counter in the Branch.

Budgie

[shas]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

Could the bank holiday of thrown your dd's out of sync? I ask this because I had 3 go out but the money I had going in (dla due on the monday) didnt go in until the tuesday. When I pointed this out to the bank, they didnt charge me.... was wondering if you could use that as part of your scenario.....

[ScaredCarer]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

Right.
I have an appointment on Monday with the manager of my actual branch, not the branch in the town where I live (the ones who are being unhelpful). I don't want to get positive to tempt fate but the staff in the village branch where I have the appointment were friendly and positive on the phone - they've always been pretty good there. I don't know if it'll help my case.

I will take the letter with me on Monday (with some alterations, thank you all for those) and ask for the charges to be stopped. My parachute account number will be with me by then and I can start diverting the benefits, although for some reason Tax Credits think it could take three weeks?!?!?!

I am incredibly grateful to my mum who has loaned me £240 cash from her savings to pay the charges if I can't stop them. This will stop the charges cycle as I then won't go over the overdraft etc. She says that she can wait until I have claimed my charges back either from the bank or the originators of the DDs for me to pay her back. I certainly didn't expect this - I feel a bit bad about taking the money to be honest but if it's the only way....

Whatever happens I'm finished with Natwest now.

Can somebody tell me how to thank posters? I'd really like to do it but can't find the button to click.....

[Amethyst]

Re: About to be hit with £200+ charges and we'll go under.... help

hi scared - hows things going ? Tax credits can be a pain but if you explain the circumstances they should be able to do it quicker. Child benefit can do it quicker - need about 3 days notice to change set up but usually works for the next payment

Regarding the Thanks button, I had a check and it was set to only show after a user had made 5 posts - which in hindsight seems a bit daft - so have reduced it to appear to everyone.

should now appear under every post except your own