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  1. #1
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    Default Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    So i got a parking ticket dated back 15th December 2016. Received a letter on the 17th January 2017 but i was in the Philippines at the time as my father in law had a stroke. I got back from the Philippines on the 27th January 2017 and saw the letter. My friend who was the homeowner at the address that i got fined at, said that he sent an appeal already. I Phoned up UK CPM on the 30th January 2017 and was told that no appeal had been sent and that £60 had already been paid on the ticket (i did not record the call so have no evidence to back this up). At this point in time in my own mind the case was resolved. But then i started to receive letters from Debt Recovery Plus. After a couple of these i phoned up the payment line for my PCN but it was no longer open. So again in my own mind these may have been mistakenly sent to me and i just continued to ignore. In March i phoned up customer service to see why they are sending me letters and got told that no appeal had been sent and no money had been paid on the ticket (again no evidence of any of this). They asked me to email them with proof of payment from myself. I gave them all the details including the dates i was in the Philippines for. I asked where has my £40 gone too. And all they replied with was this:

    "Unfortunately, our Parking Charge Notices are either £60.00 or £100.00 and we never accept £40.00 for the full and final settlement.

    We can accept another £20.00 for the matter to be closed."

    This is probably where i should have just paid the extra £20 and called it a day. But in the back of my mind i was thinking that they will probably lose this money too and keep chasing me for more. So i replied with basically why haven't you tried addressing any of my concerns but in a more passive aggressive way. And they just replied with another "pay us £20 to leave you alone". So they still have not offered me an appeal. And what really really annoyed me was that they did give me the chance to appeal. But sent the letter to the address where i had received the parking ticket. They have been sending me letters for months to my home address and now they have sent my appeal letter to a different one! This letter was sent on the 7th March 2017 and my phone call and email chain with UK CPM began on the 24th March 2017.

    On a side note UK CPM has the BPA logo on their website and when asking for their membership number i was informed that they have not been a member since October 2015.

    So after getting the correct body (the IPC) to complain to they replied with:

    "The operator has confirmed that no £60 payment was made in relation to this charge, and has suggested that during the phone conversation, potentially either the wrong reference number was supplied, or entered into the system, and that would be why this information was given."

    Still no information about my £40. The IPC seem to not care much either..... During my complaints UK CPM took this to court. This is where i should have came before submitting my defense i really. My defence is basically that i did not get the chance to appeal and that the company has been very misleading. I also filed a counterclaim asking for my £40 + Fees back (£65 all together).

    They replied asking the counter claim be struck out due to it being without Merit pursuant to 3.4(2)(a) Civil Procedure Rules 1998. And claiming of money already paid onto the ticket. But at far as i was aware, the money had not been paid onto the PCN that belongs to me. Also 12 days after i submitted my counterclaim the IPC replied to my second complaint (because in my opinion they did not deal with the first one) stating:

    "I can confirm that the £40 payment has been allocated to your Parking Charge Notice.

    After further investigation, the operator has been unable to provide proof of postage for the letter of rejection, following the appeal.


    They have therefore added the Parking Charge Notice to The IAS website, allowing you the opportunity to appeal further.


    You now have 21 days from today's date to lodge your appeal."

    That's great. But i have already filed my defense and counterclaim. Now the story has changed. Again this is 12 days after i filed them. I have opened up a 3rd complaint to the IPC because i this appeal means nothing as court proceedings have begun. This is the rules of the Independent Appeals Service here https://www.theias.org/userguide/article/71 .They have also refused mediation and asked that the matter does not go to a hearing and everything is dealt with on paper.

    I don't really know what to do now. Am i allowed to change my defense at all? Due to this new information arising (well new to me). If it only goes as far as paper court then all of the costs will stay the same right? So this is pretty much as bad as its going to get i hope. Final question really is do i have a legal right to an appeal or can companies just do whatever the hell they want?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    The IPC finally replied to me and said that they have told UK CPM to halt the court case so i can appeal via the IAS. I now only have 10 days left to appeal and not really sure what i can base my appeal on really. Quite stressed and lost about the whole thing. I am in the middle of a house purchase and have a slipped disc which is pressing on my sciatic nerve.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    tagging @charitynjw xx
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    Hi GiantPanda

    Have you contacted the court to check on the current status of the court claim/counterclaim?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    No i have not. But i did try to contact UK Car Park managements legal team. But they just keep telling me that they will phone me back. They did this 3x last week. I mean they said in the letter to the court that i can phone them with any genuine payment proposals but then wont actually help me get in touch with their legal team.....

    I am still unsure on what i can and cannot put in my appeal. Am i allowed to put anything about how the company have been treating me throughout this or will they just ignore all of that information and just care about the day that the ticket was given to me?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    An appeal to the IAS will only result in you losing. Just check with the court what is happening, that's the most important. It is an unstoppable process that an external body can't just stop. What was the defence you submitted? Have you still got that original PCN?

    You want to object to the request for a paper only hearing and want a hearing at a court local to you, as is your right.
    Here's a response that is on another forum:

    The Defendant has been informed that the Claimant has proposed a hearing on the papers because it considers the matter to be relatively straightforward.
    The Claimant also requests to transfer the hearing to the claimants local court if the Defendant does not consent.

    The Defendant objects strongly to these proposals.

    The Defendant denies that the matter is relatively straightforward.

    As a litigant in person, the defendant would be seriously disadvantaged against the claimant, a parking company that has employed its trade association's solicitor to prepare its documents.
    The defendant will probably also wish to question the claimant regarding its witness statement and other documents.
    The defendant will in particular wish to verify that any photographs submitted by the claimant show the signage in place at the time of the event and not the new clearer signs that have since been painted or erected.

    The defendant therefore requests that the matter is transferred to his local court in accordance with the Civil Procedure Rules when the defendant is a consumer.

    Modify to suit your own circumstances.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    Hi Ostell,

    This is what annoys me about the whole thing. Everyone has given me misinformation about it all. Not even citizens advice have been helpful. My defense is basically that during the original phone call i was told that £60 had been paid on the ticket and only £40 remains. So i just paid the £40 and in my mind the whole issue had been dealt with. Then i find out that no money has been paid on the ticket at all and the company did not even attempt to find where my money had gone. Until after i raise a counterclaim for it of course. Now it is against my original PCN. My defense was most likely poorly written as i did not attempt to get help before writing it because of the reasons in my previous post.

    I will find out what the status of the case is on Monday but I have already handed in the second court form about mediation and which court is my preference etc. Can i write letters to the court at any time? And can i also word my defense better during the day of the hearing? I am unsure if most of what I've said is relevant now because they have suddenly found my money and attached it to the correct PCN.

    Thanks

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    File (complete & return) the Directions Questionnaire on time, & send a copy to the other party.
    Get proof of posting if via land mail.
    (You seem to have already done this, but just in case.......)

    You should receive further directions from the court re the hearing date & venue.
    Also to swap details with the other party.
    You can expand on your defence via a Witness Statement.
    http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...ness-Statement
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    In your first post you gave the date of the alleged incident and the date that the letter was received. Was there a windscreen ticket at all?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    Yes there was ostell

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    If you haven't sent the objection in post #6 , normally would be with directions questionaire, then send it to the court as either a letter or an email.

    I was just checking the timings of the notices.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    Will drop off a letter to the court. If i do ask for a hearing though, how much would the costs increase by? Would i have to pay for their legal fee's etc (if i lose)?

    Also since submitting my defense the international parking community (IPC) provided information which sort of makes my defense pointless maybe? Because now the company has told the IPC that they have put the money against my PCN. This information was given to me 12 days after i provided my defense and opened the counterclaim. Because of this am i allowed to tweak my defense in any way? Preferably i would now like to challenge the amount they are asking for as £100 is way more than the financial loss they have had. So my £40 payment more than covers that cost and the whole thing should solved.

    Sorry for asking so many questions but i have never been taken to court before or even received a parking ticket before.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    What you have on the court claim is what you would have to pay. The costs have already been included. There may bean additional £25 for the hearing fee.

    The Beavis case found that the charges are not unreasonable. If it gets to court you can say that they have provided additional information and the change is......... (What are you changing?)

    Do they know who the driver was? yes or no, don't elaborate.

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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    Ah alright then i will request a hearing. I guess i don't have to change anything really because to me the case was dealt with during the original phone call. It's not my fault that they made an admin errors several times.

    Well they have no proof of who the driver was

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    What were the points of your defence?
    Did they comply with POFA to hold you, the keeper, liable?

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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    Ok so after reading http://parkingfine-appeals.co.uk/kee...ity-explained/ and the original letter sent to me. They are missing 2 things from thier letter. The period the car was parked has not been stated in the letter and no offer of discount if paid within 14 days. But doesn't the fact that i have already paid £40 mean that i have already claimed liability for the PCN?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    My defense was poorly written and looks more like a rant i think.... i do regret not asking for help on here before writing it and hope that i haven't cornered myself.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    Post up the defence here and see if it can be rescued from within the witness statement. But you didn't make the first payment.

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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    Well that depends on who you ask. From my point of view i made the final payment but from their point of view i made the first payment and debt still outstanding. Defense copied and pasted below:

    I was in the Philippines from 13th January 2017 until the 27th January 2017. Found the letter dated 17th January from CPM about the notice. Phoned on the 30th January 2017 because the home owner
    (<his name and address>) told me he had sent a appeal letter. On the phone i was told that no appeal letter was sent and instead £60 had been paid already so i only had to pay the remaining £40. I paid the £40 and it was taken out of my account on the 1st February 2017. I have proof of this payment in my bank statement. Now from my point of view this ticket had been fully paid. So i ignored the first couple of letters as they may have just been slow at updating their system.
    But after receiving weeks of letters, I complained to CPM via email on March 24 about all of the misinformation i had been given and about my missing £40 but their only reply to me was the following:
    Good afternoon Sir, Unfortunately, our Parking Charge Notices are either £60.00 or £100.00 and we never accept £40.00 for the full and final settlement. We can accept another £20.00 for the matter and remain at the £149.00. Thank you.

    To me this was not good enough because they have not investigated where my £40 has gone or answered any of my other questions. I also found out that i had sent an appeal rejection letter to Florey Gardens (where i do not live) giving me 21 days to go via another appeals process. So far i could not appeal to the original PCN because i was in the Philippines and did not arrive back in the country until 27th January, which was past the 21 day period. In my email complaints, not once did CPM offer me any extended appeal time due to mitigating circumstances. And my second appeal opportunity was sent to an address that i do not live at. I did not make an appeal at all. I made complaints over email. So i did not bother picking up the letter until a late date as i thought it would just be another letter telling me that i owe money. So how would i have known that this letter would be an appeal rejection to an appeal that i did not make? Side note - my trip to the Philippines was not a holiday and we went on short notice as my father in-law (who is Filipino) had a stroke and was in a coma in hospital.
    I tried to complain to the BPA as their logo is on CPM's website but i found that CPM are not a member of the BPA since October 2015. That is a very long time to continue to use the BPA's logo.
    Surely that is against advertising standards? But i digress. I complained to the IPC about everything that had happened, but they were not much use. Although i did finally find out that my £40 had been paid against a PCN unrelated to me, as the person on the phone must have gotten some digits mixed up. This was on July 10, a full 3 and a half months after my original complaint, and from a third party.

    So in summary:
    I had paid what i was told was the remaining balance of my PCN and the matter had been resolved back in January. The CPM employee's that i have spoken to over the phone and via email have been incompetent at their jobs. I did not get a chance to appeal my PCN on two occasions. First, i as in the Philippines for 3 weeks visiting a close family member in critical care.
    Second, CPN sent a letter giving me a chance to appeal via a 3rd party to an address that i do not reside at, without me actually making an appeal also. Both of these are mitigating circumstances that were not avoidable from within my powers. If CPM had actually sent the letter to the correct address (which they have been sending mail to for months) then it may not have reached this stage. They still have failed to refund me the £40 that was wrongly paid onto someone else's PCN.

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    Default Re: Parking Charge Notice reached Court

    Update.

    Just got a letter through saying District Judge X has considered the statements of the case and directions questionnaire filed and "IT IS ORDERED"

    A date has not been set for a hearing yet, but it looks like the court has ignored the claimants request for this case to be dealt with without a hearing. They also seem to have ignored my counterclaim being struck out.

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