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Thread: Probate Caveat

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  1. #26
    Peridot's Avatar

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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    That's good about the witnesses and the fact they remember witnessing. So often people can't even remember. Getting all your ducks in a row so to speak. Well done, it will get sorted eventually, although I suspect some to-ing and fro-ing yet I'm afraid.
    Here if you need us.
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  2. #27
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Is there anything you feel I should ask her solicitor for?

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Well... all is quiet at moment but I've given sisters solicitor until 31st of this month to get back to me with a reason for entering Caveat... if this isn't done do you think I should get my solicitor to intervene and issue a warning? I'm just worried about cost!

  4. #29
    Peridot's Avatar

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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Hi again,
    A warning may get a response. It is something you can do yourself so you wouldn't need to pay a solicitor to enter the warning. I suspect that the response will be that they are looking into will validity. However if your sister's solicitor is now requesting copies of your mother's medical records it may be some time before they are able to advise your sister whether there are grounds for a claim or not. Medical records can take an age to be sent to the person requested. They will no doubt be somewhat large. Although the solicitor would only have to look at the relevant bits they will of course have to identify those bits so to speak. They will also be waiting for your sister's instructions on any advice they provide.
    A warning would get a reaction or not, which may be to your advantage of course if they do not respond. However, I suspect as your sister has a solicitor acting then the solicitor will respond to ensure the caveat remains in place for the time being. Probably not what you want to hear.
    From a monetary point of view, if you sit and wait it is of course not costing you anything although it could drag out for some time before you know what is happening. If you push it then it may be dealt with more quickly but could also increase the costs at this point. Of course if a claim is eventually made then the costs will increase considerably anyway.
    I can't really decide what is the best course of action for you. At this stage I would wait and see if you receive a response to your disclosure. You will need to decide how long you are willing to wait for that response. Pushing things can go either way. It may get your sister to back down and leave well alone (depending on what her solicitor finds in medical records I would suspect) or it may encourage her to make the claim sooner, which would mean that things will move on to a conclusion but then you have the cost issue.
    Maybe if you haven't heard anything by the end of next week you write to her solicitor again requesting a response to your previous letter. Until you know what her 'plan' is you can't even ask your own solicitor on ways that the matter could be dealt with by way of offers to settle for example.
    It is very frustrating for you not knowing what they are thinking and being unable to finalise matters in relation to your mother's estate. Just remember it is not costing the estate money at this time. Give yourself some breathing room maybe. You indicated in your original post that you were in no rush so maybe that is the attitude to have for a little while longer?
    Hopefully you will hear soon but a little nudge to her solicitor in a week or so after the 31st wouldn't be a bad idea.
    I am a qualified solicitor employed by the LegalBeagles forum to provide guidance on a wide range of legal queries. I am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

    If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Thank you soooo much for your time, you are very informative, you wouldn't believe how much you have helped!
    I'm not concerned about validity of the Will at all, and it was executed correctly. Plus I know Mum wasn't diagnosed with dementia at time of Will writing, and she certainly knew her own mind, and if my sister wanted to try the undue influence route, witnesses are also certain she knew exactly what she wanted and the worth of her estate.
    As you said, it's the not knowing what the caveat was entered for that is distressing, as if I knew, I'm sure we could sort this between us, without it costing the estate anything, but unfortunately sister has chosen not to communicate with me.
    Thank you so much once again for you help!

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    I recieved this email off her solicitor:
    'It is fair to say though that my client has concerns in relation to the execution of your late mother’s Will. However, the helpful tone of your emails is noted and in particular your offer to resolve matters by way of a Mediation. For the avoidance of any doubt, your offer to mediate is accepted in principle.'
    Still non the wiser I'm afraid!

  7. #32
    Peridot's Avatar

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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Hi,
    It sounds like they are questioning your mother's capacity or reasons for making the will. I would accept the offer to mediate but I think you need to see your solicitor to get their thoughts on where any offer, if advisable, should be pitched. I suspect they are on a bit of a sticky wicket evidencing whatever your sister believes has gone on. However there are always risks if it went to Court, for both sides, win or lose.
    Be guided by your solicitor on how to deal with mediation, it may be worth considering having your solicitor with you at the mediation for both guidance and support for you? Just a thought, get some advice then decide.
    It may not feel like it but mediation is definitely worth a go, just to see if you are able reach a solution that is acceptable to both of you.
    I am a qualified solicitor employed by the LegalBeagles forum to provide guidance on a wide range of legal queries. I am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

    If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

  8. #33
    SmurfEater's Avatar

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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Thank you for your prompt reply. I was the one who suggested mediation as i'd much prefer us to talk this through so I'm happy with that! Though i was trying to save estate money I know that I will now have to instruct my solicitor to intervene so will speak to him on Monday! She can't say I haven't tried! Thank you again!

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Is being not happy with distribution of assets a valid reason for entering caveat? Is asking for documents prior to Mums death regarding finances relevant to entering caveat? I have nothing to hide, as all incoming finances went towards paying for Mums care!
    Last edited by SmurfEater; 10th August 2017 at 07:12:AM.

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Well this is still going on, Warning raised and an appearance made, and Legal Fees are mounting, my solicitor wants to go ahead with what we have, and propound the Will, but my sisters solicitor is stating that they don't yet have medical evidence they have applied for and stating it was my fault for delay as I was refusing to cooperate using ACTAPS code.
    I have received no evidence at all after 6 months from my sister, I have given Witness Statements from both day of writing and day of execution, doctors summary of ailments stating Mum was diagnosed with Dementia 2 1/2 years after Will writing, I've even given EPOA records which 'apparently' they have many questions over, so I await their response, but I can't see why this issue wasn't brought up many years ago as my sister knew I was struggling but did nothing!
    My Solicitor just doesn't seem to be able to get them to focus on the fact that the Will needs to to proven to do anything with anyway.
    Any one have any advise regarding this please?
    Many Thanks
    Last edited by SmurfEater; 29th November 2017 at 07:13:AM.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    @Peridot from PMs I understand SmurfEater and her solicitor really have been supplying the sister and her solicitor with everything requested, even if not to the matter in hand i.e. the will & probate.
    Wen asked why the caveat had been placed OP reports the response was because Smurfeater hadn't shown her sister the will!
    I am convinced the other party are on a massive fishing expedition to find anything at all to overturn the will, and my suggestion would be to start action to propound the will.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    I know thats the best thing to do thank you, but should I give them more time to get Medical Records as if they haven't yet got them would this waste money in applying now?

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Where have they applied for the medical records from ? If under AHRA they should be supplied within 40 days from the request ( presuming they have supplied all the relevant information to enable the PCS or Hospital to provide the records )
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  14. #39
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Apparently they applied mid August, in their last letter they said there was a hold up at the records end
    Last edited by SmurfEater; 3rd December 2017 at 08:43:AM.

  15. #40
    Peridot's Avatar

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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    Hi,
    What a pain. All this delay is just racking up costs and potentially reducing the amount in the estate available to distribute. Sorry I can't recall if they refused to mediate or are they wanting to do that once they have finished their fishing expedition, which somewhat defeats the object of trying to settle matters without the need for Court proceedings.

    I would suggest discussing with your solicitor whether making an offer is an option, but with a very tight timescale. After which if the offer isn't accepted then unfortunately it's off to Court and the inherent costs of doing so.

    Medical records although meant to be supplied within reasonable timescales rarely are I'm afraid. If the request is acknowledged within the 40 days there will usually be a reason for not providing them at the same time. I have spent many hours on the phone to hospitals/GP's and Health Authorities chasing records. The other issue may be that her solicitor has ordered them through a medical agency which can delay even further! Generally if you get on the phone and chase the notes with the HA/Hosp/GP you will get some results.

    I anticipate all the records will have been transferred to the central records for the Health Authority or they are having trouble locating them? If you apply yourself, then there will be a £50 fee for copy records and you may well be waiting some considerable time for them to be sent to you. I suppose if you do this you can keep on at relevant provider, if they aren't forthcoming? Am I right in thinking you provided the GP records to them in any event?

    I really don't understand why or what they are angling for other than an offer to settle that she believes is sufficient. This is of course pure speculation and she has apparently given no indication of what she actually is expecting.

    You need to discuss your options with your solicitor how to try and move matters forward:- Do you obtain the medical records yourself? Do you issue proceedings? Do you make an offer to try and settle matters without the need for Court proceedings?

    Des8 may be right it does seem they are just on a fishing expedition which the Court would not be sympathetic to, but unfortunately whatever their motivation it doesn't help any of you move forward with the estate.

    More money I'm afraid, but it is important you that ascertain exactly what options you now have, to try and move things along, for everyone's sake and to allow you to move on after the bereavement.
    I am a qualified solicitor employed by the LegalBeagles forum to provide guidance on a wide range of legal queries. I am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

    If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    From an outside perspective it seems to me your sister is unhappy she is only getting 1/4 of the assets instead of the 1/2 she thinks she deserves, sorry I understand this does not help you & I'm sure you've thought of it yourself. I am sorry that you are having this issue, you have my sympathy

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Probate Caveat

    They agreed to Mediate 'in principle' as long as I disclosed POA records, which I have now done, but as my sister left me to struggle in debt for 8 years she really won't understand them at all, I'm no accountant.
    I may try the 'offer' option thank you, though my solicitor isn't keen on that as she feels that the Will is prima facia valid and sister has shown no evidence of reason for invalidity, plus at this stage, would it not appear strange?
    I would go to court to get Will propounded, but as they have provided no evidence I have worries they will be given extra time therefore would cost more money. I don't have full records, just a medical history summary provided by Mums doctor.

    Sisters solicitor is banging on about me refusing to follow ACTAPS Code, but why should I pay for records that I don't feel necessary? Plus Social Services records they want me to apply for I have been told can only be considered for disclosure after probate
    Since I received Caveat I have been asking for evidence nothing has been provided and sisters solicitor has never mentioned that medical records were even applied for so I actually doubt they were TBH.
    They have given no indication of what she actually is expecting, though I have asked on many occasions.

    I'm at the end of my tether, just don't know what to do for the best.
    Last edited by SmurfEater; 4th December 2017 at 06:23:AM.

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