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  1. #1
    Lynnzer's Avatar

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    Default * SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

    My good wife had an impromptu visit from a company director selling advertising on hospital monitors in waiting rooms.

    He called without an appointment, though that won't make much difference.
    The contract was for an amount of just under £10000 for a two year period, with £2500 deposit which was paid there and then.

    She now realises this is a mistake and isn't what is her best interests and is trying to cancel and get the deposit back. Yeah,,,, I know...... Business contract !

    Anyway, she has no clue as to where she's put the contract document, and in fact she seems to think the copy was taken away with the rep. That makes life difficult as I have nothing to look at as to what, if any, cooling off they added.

    I understand that giving advice on something where the signed contract isn't available isn't easy but let me put this in perspective.

    The contract was signed on a fortnight ago, and I emailed and spoke to the director last week, within a week. He was on holiday so couldn't really do much at the time.

    The advertising is not due to start until some time later next month and it's extremely unlikely that any work could have been done in the meantime so there will be no loss suffered as a result.

    If they insist on continuing and I decide to renege before any work is done, what would be the possible outcome if it progressed to court?

    I'm thinking of a claim for breach of contract but would that be assessed on the loss caused, ie expenses incurred, or the total amount if no work has been done to that point.

    Bit of a mess really but if I can't prevent any action I need some ideas on how best to handle this.

  2. #2
    Lynnzer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    A bit of extra information to bump this up a bit.
    The business card left with my wife is for Patient Direct. The salesperson is a guy called Nick Slade who is Director Corporate Accounts.
    It has his mobile number on it and an email address of customerservices@patient-direct.com.

    There is no company address or anything else.

    I did a search on Companies House for Patient Direct and it doesn't show anything at all. Even if it was a trading name of another company (Ltd) it would still need to be registered. I also searched for Nick Slade as a director and that fails to show either.

    I did some extra digging around and have found connections to Multimedia International Services Ltd, and others. I have some significant concerns from what I found so emailed the address shown on the business card as follows:
    I believe you spoke with my wife yesterday, however it appears that no conclusion and nothing agreed between either party.
    We are at a gross disadvantage here as you are still apparently on holiday, and there is no address for correspondence on your business card.

    The company website gives no trading address which is a legal requirement under The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008 as amended by The Companies (Trading Disclosures) (Amendment) Regulations 2009

    The business card you left is also deficient in content. It is required to show the full trading name of the company as registered at Companies house to comply with the above Act

    I have issues on both these aspects.

    1, the business name as shown on the business card does not appear on the Companies House records.
    2. the company website has no trading address or contact details
    3. Your business card states your position as being the "Director Corporate Accounts". There is no record of your name on any directorship at Companies House. To name yourself the Director Corporate Accounts would require you to be working for a company registered as Limited at Companies House, or someone who carries equal status as far as the financial aspects are concerned including you own liability for debts and other matters.
    4. The website is registered to Steve Corsbie at an address that displays the occupier as having a website of www.cnetwork.tv which is also owned by the same Steve Corsbie. Neither of these are helpful in ascertaining the validity of Patient Direct.
    5. further searching shows that another company may be involved in this web of intrigue. This is named as Multimedia International Services Ltd with the named directors being Ms Angela Margaret Darnell & Mr David Ravenscroft. Both of these individuals are named a directors of another company too; Media International Holdings Limited at a different address.

    If Patient Direct UK is a trading name of any of these companies it requires it to be registered as such, and it is not. There is a serious concern on the representation of a company which cannot be found to exist, with a directorship which cannot be validated
    To further complicate matters David Ravenscroft is also a director with Property Investment Network Limited, Multimedia International Services Worldwide Limited & Multimedia International Services Holdings Limited. Angela Darnell also appears as a director. Incidentally you are not named as a director on any of these companies so the title you seem to have awarded yourself "Director Corporate Accounts" cannot even be devolved from one of those either.

    The records show that Multimedia International Services Worldwide Limited was liquidated with 3 outstanding debentures and charges.
    Multimedia International Services Holdings Limited was also liquidated within a year of incorporation.


    Tracing back on other sites also shows a named director who lives apparently in the Cayman Islands, which naturally flags up severe doubts.

    The lack of clarity of the company's true identity, together with the visible extraordinarily disastrous trading record of the directors leads me to have severe doubts as to the integrity of Patient Direct.

    In any case, since the company seems not to exist on the Companies House Register, you are not a director of any company and all leads show a web of past companied which have been wound up for one reason or another, perhaps to escape fulfilling the obligations of past customers, then I see no reason to have any faith in continuing with this relationship.

    As I already made clear in my first post, you have not had time to suffer any loss, as the work you would carry out would not have started in this extremely short time-scale.

    It is clear that the company (if it does indeed exist) has failed in compliance to the above mentioned legislative requirements. As such this would sit favourably in our favour.

    I respectfully now insist on a refund of the amount taken as a deposit.
    I look forward to this being done within 7 days from today's date.
    ----------------------------

    So they have come back to me and said tough but there's a no cooling off period but they will accept the deposit paid which amounts to 6 months worth of advertising, and run the advert for 12 months.
    The email address of the person who responded is one that has a name and then @MIS.tv and with "on behalf of Patient Direct – The Community Network"

    I did a search on this and the very first thing that threw itself up was on Facebook in large red text as SCAM.
    It appears that this is a company with worldwide operations, and that is borne out by the liquidated companies where I found common directorships.
    I seem to think, and this opinion only, that the liquidated companies were possibly sent down to escape their ongoing liabilities to other customers who had contracted with them. However, there are unsatisfied liabilities on debentures etc from these liquidated companies.

    I believe that if I now took action to claim back the deposit based on the non transparency of the company and the findings of the "peculiar and extraordinary financial history with other companies for the same services, that it will be useful to me.

    I believe that if I claimed the amount back, ie cancelled the contract and they took legal action, and won their case, that I could actually make payment to a previous unpaid creditor, such as their bank who hold the debenture.

    If this did hit court, I would like some insight into the likelihood of them winning their case based on my findings about their non compliance to The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008 as amended by The Companies (Trading Disclosures) (Amendment) Regulations 2009. As I have pointed out in my email, there is nothing at all that I could use to identify them, no correspondence address, no mention in any companies House search so they are, as far as I can assume, a company that is trading in shady circumstances.

    Anyway, if this all went belly up and di go to court, what likelihood is there of a judge awarding damages for an amount that is higher than their current loss, ie nothing at all.

    Just to give an insight into the multiple current, liquidated and dissolved companies and their directors, along with the unresolved liabilities, I put a few links for you. How would these stand as evidence of bad faith along with the complete lack of transparency of the Patient Direct company which is the principal to the contract?

    1. Link 1.

    2. link 2.
    3. link 3
    4. link 4.
    5. link 5.
    6. link 6.
    7. link 7.

    You will notice that David Ravenscroft also has 2 dates of birth showing in those links, a couple of years apart.

    Chip in guys. Feedback please

  3. #3
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Evening Apologies for missing your thread yesterday - having a read through now - it seems you've been doing your homework.

    First thing - how was the £2.5k paid ?

    Make sure you cancel the Direct Debit with the bank for ongoing payments.

    So basically a cold call vist from a sales rep, took £2.5k and only left her with a business card with no contact details other than a mobile number on ? Who ever since has been on holiday ? Not good. I reckon your instincts are quite correct.

    Can you paste the email they have sent you. I've checked out Co House, Linked In, websites etc etc - have you shown any of the pictures of the people ( quite a few across linked in - if you go to David Ravenscroft the right hand side shows quite a few other MIS' employees') to your wife see if she can recognise who it was - can't find anything on a 'Nick Slade' though. What's the mobile number?

    Did this '' Nick Slade'' tell your wife where the adverts would be placed, when, get designs/wording for the adverts etc ?

    Google patient direct scam - might help to read other peoples experiences. MSE seems to have a few.

    Patient Direct UK
    Premier House
    Premier Way
    Poulton Business Park
    Poulton-le-Fylde
    Lancashire
    FY6 8JP

    Telephone:
    01253 888400

    Website:
    www.patient-direct.co.uk & www.patient-direct.com
    Last edited by Amethyst; 9th June 2017 at 21:29:PM.
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  4. #4
    Lynnzer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    Evening Apologies for missing your thread yesterday - having a read through now - it seems you've been doing your homework.

    First thing - how was the £2.5k paid ?
    This was paid by a personal debit card. However my wife's business is a Ltd Co.

    So basically a cold call vist from a sales rep, took £2.5k and only left her with a business card with no contact details other than a mobile number on ? Who ever since has been on holiday ? Not good. I reckon your instincts are quite correct.

    Can you paste the email they have sent you. I've checked out Co House, Linked In, websites etc etc - have you shown any of the pictures of the people ( quite a few across linked in - if you go to David Ravenscroft the right hand side shows quite a few other MIS' employees') to your wife see if she can recognise who it was - can't find anything on a 'Nick Slade' though. What's the mobile number?
    It's 07941 571566. It's traced to a lady down in Wales but mobile numbers do get bandied about a bit.

    [quote]Did this '' Nick Slade'' tell your wife where the adverts would be placed, when, get designs/wording for the adverts etc ?{/quote] Sort of. It's just a damn pity that she can't find the contract copy. The design requires a visit to the shop to take photo's etc and nothing's been done on that yet, nor will I allow it either.

    Google patient direct scam - might help to read other peoples experiences.

    Patient Direct UK
    Premier House
    Premier Way
    Poulton Business Park
    Poulton-le-Fylde
    Lancashire
    FY6 8JP

    Telephone:
    01253 888400

    Website:
    www.patient-direct.co.uk & www.patient-direct.com
    I have found loads of things about the company in-between my last post on here and your answer. It's a real horror story.
    Here's the response to my email:
    I have been passed your details with reference to your email to our sales representative Nick Slade, and your conversation earlier today with our Service manager Janine.

    As discussed on the phone call the contract itself is not subject to cancelation once signed and the deposit is non-refundable. However due to the nature of the email received, as offered we will cancel the remaining payments on the account and look to provide you with 1 years advertising for the deposit paid.

    If you can please confirm we can move forward with the creation of your advert, I will implement the above for you and arrange for your advert to be published as soon as approved by yourselves.

    Kind Regards
    Louise Harrison
    Customer Service Manager
    Patient Direct – The Community Network

    One of the legal considerations I found on Justanswers is here. Same set-up with another name.

    I have also responded to their email, still not having an actual address, as follows:

    You seem to misunderstand my email.
    I have now made a cancellation of the contract. Your assertions that being a business contract it has to be fulfilled and that no cooling off period is made, is not at all problematic to ourselves.


    I am sufficiently informed as to how this could be pursued if you take legal action. Your loss would be the most you could claim as damages and at this time this amounts to nil. No court would allow undue enrichment in such circumstances.


    In any case, the anomalies I have found are evidence of great concern. David Ravenscroft is even shown to have to different dates of birth, an address in the Cayman Isles and a string of failed businesses with unpaid creditors behind his failed businesses.


    It takes no more than a quick Google search to find numerous other complaints of mismanagement, misrepresentation etc.


    I have to exercise my utmost caution to prevent any financial loss to our business and as the Company Secretary I take it upon myself to fully avail myself of legal advice and assistance in dealing in these sort of issues.


    Patient Direct is still unknown to the world in general, but from the previous email you sent I have searched on the email address and found links to the presumed true identity of the company, or the parent company. However it should be borne in mind that there are failures on compliance to show proper company details on the stationery, business cards and websites. None of these give the required information. I am sure Companies House would be keen to hear of this.


    If patient Direct is a trading name of another company then it must be disclosed as such. It isn't. In my opinion that means that the company is a non Ltd one as that would not require registration at Companies House.


    My confusion as to who Patient Direct is, along with the vast number of other matters that only add a blanket of uncertainty is one of considerable uneasiness.


    I am therefore cancelling this contract at this point in time, before you have had to suffer any expenses.


    I believe that if Patient Direct do take court action for this, and win an amount of damages, it will be of a negligible amount and in any case I have been assured that payment of it could be paid to one of the unpaid creditors from an earlier incarnation that has gone into liquidation where the directors are common to both companies.


    If you would now refund the amount taken as the deposit less £30 for any time taken in office-work then we will cease with the relationship.
    Sincerely

    I expect it'll get a refusal and a threat of legal action. My intentions are to give them a week and if I don't get satisfaction I'll try a chargeback.

    Any other advice would be appreciated.

    Last edited by Lynnzer; 9th June 2017 at 21:49:PM.

  5. #5
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Okay I don't know why you would give them a week - the company only seems to still be active because Barclays have put a charge over it --- your wife has been conned out of £2.5k - paid with a personal Debit Card - I would get your wife to contact her bank and tell them she has been scammed and ask if there's any way to do a chargeback/recall. Also make a report to Action Fraud - you might need to do that first to get a crime ref. (( cold call visit from a ''sales rep'', took £2.5k from personal debit card and only left her with a business card with no contact or company details other than a mobile number - has been on ''holiday'' ever since ))


    They had over £7mil of 'debtors' in their last set of accounts. Presumably those 'contracts' make nice security for borrowing.


    If you want to keep communicating with them you need to insist they send a copy of the agreement your wife made with them as she was not left with a copy.

    But you must tell her bank, and her business account bank if she remembers filling in any account details on the ''contract'', as they need to put a stop on them claiming any payments by DD or continuous payment authority - as you don't have a copy you don't know what she signed.
    Last edited by Amethyst; 9th June 2017 at 22:14:PM.
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Thanks for that Amethyst.
    It's as bad as I thought. Now, the accounts? have you found a set of accounts for the named Patient Direct UK, or are you using the ones from the apparent parent company?
    If it;'s the ones from one of the Ltd Co's I would need to place them together to show nefarious activity to go for a chargeback.

    As it stands, I will give them a week, as I have already told them that anyway, so want to keep it all reasonable in case a court does get involved.

    However I do intend to try for a chargeback and I think the things I have found will be sufficient to satisfy that. If not then I'll be sort of stuck and I guess the only way out would be to start proceedings in court myself. That might be a problem though as it would be ourselves who would be in breach of the contract, however nefarious the company appears to be.

    How would you think that might go in front of a judge?

  7. #7
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Maybe it's late but personally I wouldn't get too bogged down in the #business contract# - basically a random man has visited your wife, conned her into paying him £2.5k, left nothing with her, and gone on holiday with only a mobile number for contact. Anything you have found out since then is from your own investigation work. As it is a business contract between her ltd company and this MIS she has very little protection, if any. If you are going to treat it as a business contract between MIS and your wife then you need to ask them for a copy of the contract, write a formal letter of cancellation and request a refund in full. They will, as they already have, refused, so you then have to make the case the service/product they sold her was misrepresented/not provided etc. You'd need to stop with the informal messages and draft something formal - the status of their company or directors location is irrelevant if you are going to treat it as a bonafide contract that hasn't been serviced and so you'd need to make it a formal LBA if you are going to sue for a refund.

    So where are the adverts meant to be placed? how often ? what locations ? Have a read of this http://www.4networking.biz/Forum/ViewTopic/118267 ...

    We have another company who sell 'NHS intranet' adverts - we contacted the hospital trusts where the 'intranet' adverts where meant to be being placed, and they confirmed in writing they had no relationship with the company selling the advertising at all and in fact had never carried any advertising from that company. So you can look at that side of things. Of course people didn't get back money they had paid as the company went bust and started up with a new name and started over.

    Reading about other people seem to have paid £650 a year plus £150 for the adwork. Why is your wife's ''contract'' for £10k ?
    Last edited by Amethyst; 10th June 2017 at 05:52:AM.
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Without wanting to demean my wife in public, she has had ill health for a while now and is suffering from stress so her mind just wasn't up to this. She called me from the shop to ask my opinion and despite my saying NO, in capital letters, she went ahead with it anyway. I asked about cooling off periods, location of the adverts etc but she was starting to freak out with her stress so I left it at that, knowing she was going to be badly bitten. Perhaps I shouldn't have, but it was already a matter of relationship conflict and I didn't want to exacerbate the situation.

    She knows I was right now of course but I'm not going to wave a flag in her face about it. I'll just do what I can to remedy the situation.
    The costs were presented to her as a weekly amount of £95 and that's around what she would pay for an ad in a local newspaper anyway. Over the 2 year term that is almost 10 grand.

    So now I have to get out of this mess. Here's my draft for sending to the bank. If you could see if it's written with the likelihood of fulfilling the conditions for a charge-back it would be helpful:
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I wish to invoke my right to a charge-back on Visa card number **********
    The circumstances applicable to this request are as follows.

    On the (date) a salesperson who presented a business card in the name of Nick Slade, Director of Corporate Accounts for a company named as Patient Direct made an unannounced visit to my wife's shop. He made a sales pitch for advertising on various NHS waiting room plasma TV's.

    After some interrupted discussion in a busy shop, an agreement was made and he then demanded a deposit payment of £*******.
    As the company had no way to make that payment before he left, my wife made the payment on a personal basis using the VISA card above, as a personal payment.

    A few days later she needed to contact the company to discuss some matters pertaining to the agreement and called the number given on the business card. In fact it is only a personal mobile phone number of the said Nick Slade who was unavailable at that time, supposedly being on holiday.

    I had suspicions on the validity of the company since their website is one that has no direct contact telephone number, nor a location address for correspondence or even an email address.

    These are required for the strict compliance to The Companies (Trading Disclosures) Regulations 2008 as amended by The Companies (Trading Disclosures) (Amendment) Regulations 2009. It is a criminal offence to fail to adhere to that legislation.

    I then made a Google search for Patient Direct on the Companies House website and found nothing. There are a couple of similar names but on contacting the most obvious ones they assure me they have no knowledge of a Nick Slade nor any advertising with the NHS.

    A further search for Nick Slade, the Director of Corporate Accounts didn't show anywhere on the Companies House records in relation to Patient Direct. There is a record for a Nick Slade which shows that person to be a resigned director of The Multi Faith Centre at the University of Derby however it's unlikely to be same person. In any case no other directorships show up for that name.

    Nick Slade's mobile number is tagged to an Alexis Hammond in Carmarthenshire. The records show underneath.

    [ I will insert the gif of that website snip here]

    This search result is one that suggests strongly that this is a scam company, or one which has very significant doubts as to its legitimacy. From there on it becomes a mess of confusion involving many previous companies run by directors with apparent different dates of birth as registered at companies house, numerous past businesses which have been liquidated with massive debts, addresses in the Cayman Islands etc. It would be enough to make Donald Trump look like an amateur.

    I have no idea at all as to whether Patient Direct is a fledgling company being used by one of the other companies I have found, but Companies House have no record of “such and such a company ” Trading as Patient Direct which they would have on record as a legal requirement for a Ltd Co. using a trading name.

    There is no public record of a company called Patient Direct being registered for VAT, despite my wife being told that it was a worldwide company with a multi million pound turnover.

    So at this point Patient Direct is an unknown company with a reputation that seems seedy at best, but along with the Director of Corporate Accounts, is clearly not known to Companies House .

    Being the Director of Corporate Accounts, such as the status you can expect afforded to that position, it is reasonable to assume that Nick Slade is presenting Patient Direct as a Ltd Company. If it was otherwise such as in a partnership, then naming himself as a director is a clear fraudulent misrepresentation as it cannot be a position held within a non Ltd Company.

    The evidence suggests that Patient Direct is not legitimate. I believe it to be operating fraudulently, or in a guise not easily substantiated in its present name.

    It has no trace on the name, nor on the named Director. It has no correspondence address on the business card, only the personal mobile phone number that in any case seems to be registered to someone else. Their website is also lacking in any provable identity or contact details both of which are required under the previously mentioned legislation.

    The searches indicate that where people have had dealings with them in the past they have been, as they call it “scammed”.

    The supposed target NHS locations for the placement of the advertising are not able to substantiate the agreement for them to operate within the hospital premises. I believe that if a hospital knows nothing of the agreed advertising then it casts further doubt on it being a legitimate business venture. If they intend to use our agreement to persuade some NHS trusts to agree an advertising contract then it would still be clear misrepresentation as they cannot offer something they have no prior agreement for.

    Since I have no correspondence address to a company of that name I now believe that the Visa payment should be claimed back from them.

    Any objection of that request on the basis of a contractual agreement is not of itself worthy of consideration as the true identity of the business is still unknown and the considerable anomalies surrounding it are still of exceptional uncertainty as to it's legitimacy.

    I hasten to add that some of the best scam companies have websites to beat any of the regular legitimate ones, and business cards can be knocked up by anyone.

    In the event of an objection to the chargeback then I ask that this be overruled and if the company is at all legitimate and believes it has a case, then it can pursue the matter directly in a civil court for any loss it may have incurred as a result.
    Last edited by Lynnzer; 10th June 2017 at 12:21:PM.

  9. #9
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Just thinking - What shows on her bank statement ? Did he have a card reader, or did she fill in a form for him to Process later or ring through to 'head office' ?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    Just thinking - What shows on her bank statement ? Did he have a card reader, or did she fill in a form for him to Process later or ring through to 'head office' ?
    He called the number in. It shows as paid to Patient Direct. Would that classify as a distance sale?
    Apparently the amount included VAT: supposedly......
    Last edited by Lynnzer; 10th June 2017 at 19:51:PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Just added this into the claim details. I'm still trying to get further info before I submit the claim to ensure it's as watertight as possible.:

    There is no public record of a company called Patient Direct being registered for VAT, despite my wife being told that it was a worldwide company with a multi million pound turnover. The Electronic Commerce (EC Directive) Regulations 2002 require that a VAT number is disclosed on their website, even if the site is not being used fore-commerce transactions. The non inclusion of that on their website only adds to the suspicion of illegitimacy.


    The Directive above also states :
    Service providers, whether involved in e-commerce or not, should provide the following minimum information, which must be easily, directly and permanently accessible:

    • the name of the service provider must be given somewhere easily accessible on the site. This might differ from the trading name and any such difference should be explained – e.g. "XYZ.com is the trading name of XYZ Enterprises Limited";
    • the geographic address of the service provider must be given;
    • the details of the service provider including his or her email address, so long as it allows rapid contact and direct and effective communication.



    There are further conditions too, but none of the above are apparent on the website thus certifying at least an organisation that has no regard to legal procedure and thus invoking a huge suspicion of impropriety.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm going to send today but will spend another couple of hours doing all I can to check things out further.

    Annoyingly the VAT office cannot do a search against a company or even a postcode. They need a VAT number, and if the scam is perpetrated by a company that isn't VAT registered then that's a blind alley.

    Some completely useless database they run then eh?

  12. #12
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnzer View Post
    He called the number in. It shows as paid to Patient Direct. Would that classify as a distance sale?
    Apparently the amount included VAT: supposedly......
    MIS Ltd are likely registered for VAT. Patient-Direct will be MIS Ltd t/as Patient-Direct I would expect.

    worldwide company with a multi million pound turnover
    Well, they seem to operate in Aus, Canada etc and their accounts show a £7m outstanding debtor book so in essence that is true turnover wise.

    Get your wife to ring her bank and ask them to be sent a form to claim a chargeback for a visa debit card payment for a scam. Then you know exactly what information they will require.

    As well write to MIS Ltd and ask for a copy of the agreement, details of exactly what their service is, how much it costs, what their VAT number is, and inform them you wish to cancel forthwith.

    Dear Sirs
    COMPLAINT and CANCELLATION
    On xx/xx/2017 one of your sales representative, Mr Nick Slater, visited my business premises, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, and made representations to me regarding advertising on Healthcare Monitors. Mr Slater was not invited to visit me and he attended at a time when I was extremely busy with customers. I was not left with a copy of any agreement, nor any details of the service offered, and have discovered a sum of £2500 has been taken from my personal bank account. Mr Slater only left me with his business card, which does not state your company name nor any contact information beyond his mobile telephone number. I have been unable to contact Mr Slater since his visit as he has, apparently, been on annual leave. It is only on conducting my own research I have discovered that the company name that shows on my bank statement is a trading style of MIS Ltd.
    I confirm I do not wish to proceed with any services offered by your company and request a full refund of the £2500 taken forthwith. I have no requirement to advertise on Healthcare Monitors.
    Please confirm this has been actioned in writing, or in the event you refuse my request, confirm this, and provide full copies of all documentation relating to the alleged agreement. I am not adverse to taking legal action in order to recover my money.
    Sincerely
    xxxxxxxxxxx
    xxxxxxxxxxxxx Ltd
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  13. #13
    Lynnzer's Avatar

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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Thanks Amethyst.
    MIS Ltd are not using Patient Direct as a trading name though, or if they are they haven't registered it at companies house.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    My claim has been submitted so it's a waiting game now.
    What I want to know now though is if a Ltd Co. is using a trading name must it be registered with Companies House or can they use it anyway?
    Ie, Patient Direct being the trading name of Multimedia International Services Ltd, supposedly using that trading name without it being registered as such.

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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnzer View Post
    What I want to know now though is if a Ltd Co. is using a trading name must it be registered with Companies House or can they use it anyway?
    'Trading as' names don't have to be registered with Companies House.

    You can trade using a different name to your registered name. This is known as a ‘business name’.
    https://www.gov.uk/limited-company-f...e-company-name

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Hi, I've been googling Patient Direct ever since I realised I'd been scammed by them. So far we've paid £400, so nowhere in the region of your wife's payment - sorry to hear about that, Lynnzer.
    We were visited by the rep back in April. I think we must have been preocuppied or busy, being a new business so our recollections are a bit sketchy. We remember him telling us it was a special rate as they had a deadline to meet and only a few slots to fill, and that we could have a one year contract. We definitely signed some paperwork but can't find it, and believe he took it away with him.
    Two days ago I noticed our monthly payments were higher than expected, so went back to check the paperwork. I managed to find an email copy (which, I'm ashamed to say, I hadn't read, because I assumed it would be the same as what we signed). Anyway, the amounts on the contract were double what we remember being quoted, and the term had been extended to two years. The signature on the forms bears a passing resemblance to my signature, but is most definitely not mine as the letter formations are wrong - he has actually forged my signature!!!
    So far I've stopped further payments with the bank and reported to Trading Standards (who couldn't help due to fraud) as well as Action Fraud. Waiting to hear back from them but it could be some time. I'd love to get our £400 back, but more importantly I want to see these crooks shut down so they won't be able to keep taking advantage of small businesses like ours.
    Please keep us updated with how you get on. I'll post if I have any further developments.

    PS. I've phoned the rep a couple times and emailed him, asking for the original paperwork we signed (I want to see the one with my real signature on) and he keeps saying he's busy but will send it soon. I've emailed patient direct to let them know the contract is fraudulent but have heard nothing back from them either. What email address did you use to contact them?

    Thanks and good luck with everything

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Same thing. Missing copy of contract when he went.
    Total scam.

    PD is supposed to be part of Community Network which are trading names of Multimedia International Services (They didn't say which incarnation though as there are 3 of them.
    The only one still registered and not closed down is MIS Ltd but the significant owner of this is MIS Worldwide Ltd which was itself on the verge of being struck off, and only just escaped that by the skin of their teeth.

    Just search Companies House for the name and you'll see them all pop up.

    In fact, here's a few links I have saved:
    Directors: Angela Margaret DARNELL : David Ravenscroft-1 : David Ravenscroft : David Ravenscroft-2 : David Ravenscroft-3

    Companies: MULTIMEDIA INTERNATIONAL SERVICES LIMITED : MULTIMEDIA INTERNATIONAL SERVICES HOLDINGS LIMITED : MULTIMEDIA INTERNATIONAL SERVICES WORLDWIDE LIMITED :

    Shows as part of the MIS Group

    There's a deliberate attempt to make itself invisible by using a trail of trading names.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Just for information purposes I have attached the standard terms and condition of the contract.
    I have never seen such mish mash of stuff all designed to give them the rights to walk all over people.

    It pays to read these things before putting pen to paper. I believe my wife has learnt a valuable lesson but it's cost her dearly.

    Having said that, what do you make of clause 22?
    It seems to allow either party to be free from any remedy for an untruth which was relied on in entering the agreement.

    Perhaps that means that the actual acceptance of the contract by contractee can be reneged as an untruthful acceptance.

    I would be really keen to go down that route if the chargeback is rejected.
    Last edited by Lynnzer; 14th July 2017 at 21:08:PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    SUCCESS
    Chargeback amount just been received.

    For others that follow this thread or find it later as a result of a Google search for patient direct scam, then make sure you lay a similar trail of non compliance etc.

    Thanks to all who helped.


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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Well done, Lynnzer.

    I'll let @Amethyst & @EXC know.
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    That's great news Lynnzer. Well done, lets hope that is the end of it for you now.

    So because I'm nosey....( and it helps others to know)

    What did the bank come back with ?
    Have they said the company have 30 days to 'appeal' it ?
    Have you heard anything at all from PD since ?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Haven't heard anything from the bank yet.
    I just saw the deposit in my account today so perhaps I'll get notification this week on how they concluded this.
    From my memory though on a chargeback claim against my wife's business by a customer where there was no valid reason, they didn't make a chargeback without us having a chance to appeal

    I guess if they do allow an appeal and allow it, then they will try and take the payment back from the VISA Debit Card.
    If that's the normal procedure I'll empty my account first so they can't do it. Possible?

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Business contract cancellation

    Okay, I'd be careful for a little while until you have everything settled and confirmation in writing. Leave the money in the account ( as if it is reversed it will send you into an unauthorised overdraft and things could get difficult with charges etc... and sadly the bank won't worry about doing that at all.)

    I might be tempted to inform the bank not to accept any further transactions from the same company - as your payment was made by the guy calling in they may have a note of the card details and attempt again.

    Does the payment deposit show as being a chargeback ?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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  24. #24
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    Default Re: * SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

    It just shows "Debit Card Services".
    Has to be the chargeback though, and I haven't had anything in today's post.

    Just to drop another link in here which may well be useful to others., here's a case against them in Australia which resulted in them being fined for $230,000.

    Here's the case outcome

    Australian B2B contracts are very different to those here. A small business is caught in the unavoidable trap of a contract that has been supposedly fully read and understood over here, and which often includes small print that most people don't BUT SHOULD read that amounts to an inferior deal for the contractee.

    In Aussieland things are much different. Pity we can't press the Government to make some small business contract legislative exceptions over here.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: * SORTED * Business contract cancellation Patient Direct

    Yip we believe that small business should be treated as a consumer, and have the same protections, when acting outside of their direct business area. ( ie. engaging advertisers / employment consultancy services etc etc ) I'll have a read of the Australian case, thank you.

    Weird that the bank have just reversed the transaction without communicating with you. Let us know when you hear anything.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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