Negotiating payment with PRA

[Busymum]

Hi, I am new to this. I have some old debts and one was sold to PRA years ago. They are all over 6 years old and have now gone off my credit file. I am trying to make offers to settle them and have offered PRA 15% of the debt. They have as expected refused the figure and want around 80%. I can't afford that so won't agree to that. I used a letter I had seen on here to request that once agreed, they mark the account as settled. They have stated hat they can only mark it as partially settled unless I pay the full amount owing- is this correct? I doubt everything they say as they are trying to put the pressure on by saying this offer of 80% will expire in ten days and also asking where I am getting the money from etc. I am not going to respond to either of them but wondered if you have a response letter to this rejection of an offer and if I can still ask them to mark the account as fully settled.

Thanks

[MIKE770]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

over 6 years and not on credit filer you state? = then how can they mark partially settled when an entry not there -??

statute of limitations may be prevelent here i.e.:- you payment or correspondence for a period of 6 years , or 5 years if you live in scotland, comes into play


before you contact them again give us the full details of last payment to whom and details of original date and if you made contact withg them within the 6 year period??


if so they are rubbing their hands to-gether hoping you respond as they know no entry can be made on a CRA file once it is off and gone forever.

[charitynjw]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

Hi Busymum, welcome to LB.

It would be a great advantage to you (& to us ) if you have kept details of all the alleged debts. (Original creditors, type of agreements....loans, credit cards, overdrafts etc.)......particularly the PRA one, as that is the one about which you have posted.
If they have been misplaced/lost/eaten by the dog, you can SAR the original creditor for details.

Similarly, obtain the relevant historic bank records, which you can often obtain for a modest fee.

Btw, were your communications to PRA verbal, or, if written, how? (email? letter?) & were they made on a 'without prejudice' basis?

As [MENTION=3599]MIKE770[/MENTION] has rightly suggested, statute barring might be an issue here, so it's important to protect your position.

[Busymum]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

Hi Busymum, welcome to LB.

It would be a great advantage to you (& to us ) if you have kept details of all the alleged debts. (Original creditors, type of agreements....loans, credit cards, overdrafts etc.)......particularly the PRA one, as that is the one about which you have posted.
If they have been misplaced/lost/eaten by the dog, you can SAR the original creditor for details.

Similarly, obtain the relevant historic bank records, which you can often obtain for a modest fee.

Btw, were your communications to PRA verbal, or, if written, how? (email? letter?) & were they made on a 'without prejudice' basis?

As [MENTION=3599]MIKE770[/MENTION] has rightly suggested, statute barring might be an issue here, so it's important to protect your position.

Hi,
I have a number of debts with companies such as PRA and Idem and they are a mix of credit card and overdraft. I don't have the original documentation and have been paying these for over 6 years through a debt management company called moneysolve. We have still been paying these each month. A default was put on my account over 6 years ago and has now gone off my account as it is over 6 years. I am just trying to sort these out to be rid of them once and for all. I sent a written without prejudice letter to them last week and they have rejected that offer. I am just wondering what to do now. Any advice very welcome!

[MIKE770]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

paying via debt management on all then|???

[Busymum]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

Yes via them

[Diana M]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

I have a number of debts with companies such as PRA and Idem and they are a mix of credit card and overdraft.

. . . . I am just trying to sort these out to be rid of them once and for all.

I have a suggestion

Since these are all old debts which appear to have been assigned to debt purchasers such as PRA why not check to see whether they are actually enforceable in law before you make offers to pay them.

Send a section 77 - 79 CCA Request to each one and see what comes back.

If the debts are unenforceable in court (law) because they cannot comply with your statutory request, then in the very least you'll have a good bargaining tool.

Here's a link to this forum's template letter for CCA Requests > http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...=7670#post7670

Who was the original creditor of the PRA debt?

If it was MBNA then you may like to read this thread where I personally (with help from my Boss ) defeated them in court recently. If debt purchasers want you to pay them money which they never lent you in the first place and which they bought of the original creditor for peanuts, then they have to prove they own the debt first! >

http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...304#post723304

PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED v DIANA MAYHEW – WIN

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – "IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGNMENT PROVED”

So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.

Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.

After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.

Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.

This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.

Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

I have full knowledge of this case since I was the Defendant (Diana M is short for Diana Mayhew).

I was also the "Client" of Joanna Connolly Solicitors where I currently work. How ironical.

I have no shame in being taken to court for a debt which arose with MBNA when I was in "financial chaos" at the start of the Credit Crunch which was caused by the banks not me or any of you other debtors out there.

But I didn't personally owe PRA any money (as agreed by Recorder Bellamy) and that was the reason I decided to fight this case.

I wasn't only doing it for me, I was doing it for all the other debtors who've been served with claims for a MBNA debt which travelled the same assignment route as mine.

I was also doing it because the documents produced by the Claimant needed forensic examination. As Jo has said the court found them irredeemably unenforceable. There were two claims for two accounts and both credit agreements failed the test in court.

It was a win for the consumer not just me.

PRA have said that they will not be appealing the judgment.

Di (aka Diana Mayhew)

Di

[Busymum]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

Thanks for the advice. I will certainly send the request off to them before anything else. If I am still paying them will that affect anything?

[Diana M]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

I will certainly send the request off to them before anything else. If I am still paying them will that affect anything?

No it's fine to send the CCA Request (don't forget the £1 statutory fee by postal order) .

I would send one to each of your other creditors too.

Who owned the debt before PRA and how much is the balance?

Di

[Busymum]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

I know one was MBNA and some were lloyds - need to check which was which

[charitynjw]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

Don't forget to keep copies of correspondence & get proof of posting.

[warwick65]

Re: Negotiating payment with PRA

Hi
If you have time and depending on the number of accounts it can take some time.

When I started my journey of checking the status of my debts I started a file for each as well as online storage for each ( I use google drive). Every letter sent is saved as a copy in my file and also in google drive , every receipt for royal mail signed for is scanned and saved in google drive with the real copy stapled to the letter I have in my file, When I get a proof of posting I print a copy and also save a copy in the cloud. Every letter received is scanned and saved in the drive as well as the original in my file.

I know it takes some time , I also number the letters ( or date them) so i know which order they were sent and received. Although it has taken a long time I have found it worth it, one particular file is up to nearly 100 documents whuile others stopped at about 10.

I will admit as the years have gone on I have become less strict about scanning the letters from accounts that rarely write but i do save them all. It has been a great help in dealing with a claim I received - much easier to set my hands on every letter I might need to defend myself. Maybe a bit OCD but it kept me out of mischief

[Busymum]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

Hello again,

I also have an account with Idem and have asked for the credit agreement which they have acknowledged they can't provide. They have in the same letter said the balance is still outstanding though and they will continue to pursue the debt including registering any defaults and arrears with credit agencies. It has already expired from my credit history as it has been longer than 6 years so my understanding is they can't add it again now. They have said they will contact me to discuss repayment proposals. They have sent me a statement of my payments to date which show it has decreased from £12,700 to £7,600 now so I have paid a lot back. I recently offered them a settlement figure of £1500 which they declined- before I had asked for the agreement. They said they want 80% of what is left owing. That was before this new letter. Please could you advise me what to do next.
Thank you

[charitynjw]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

Hello again,

I also have an account with Idem and have asked for the credit agreement which they have acknowledged they can't provide. They have in the same letter said the balance is still outstanding though and they will continue to pursue the debt including registering any defaults and arrears with credit agencies. It has already expired from my credit history as it has been longer than 6 years so my understanding is they can't add it again now. They have said they will contact me to discuss repayment proposals. They have sent me a statement of my payments to date which show it has decreased from £12,700 to £7,600 now so I have paid a lot back. I recently offered them a settlement figure of £1500 which they declined- before I had asked for the agreement. They said they want 80% of what is left owing. That was before this new letter. Please could you advise me what to do next.
Thank you

Hi Busymum

Best to start your own thread.....saves confusion.

If you're ok with that, I'll give our [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] a nudge.

[Busymum]

Re: PRA full and final settlement advice

This is my own thread. Just another account I have