Marsh car finance termination debt for losses at auction

[Queensburydave]

Hi folks

looking for some advise please.

Back in Sept 2014 I had to voluntarily terminate a car with marsh. I had paid over two thirds of the term but circumstances at the time led to having to do this. The British car auction collected the car and I had heard nothing since. Today (may 2016) I came home to a letter from marsh saying they are writing to me about a debt following termination on the agreement stating they had already written and called before about the outstanding £1100 which is the loss once the vehicle had been sold at auction for £4150 and valued at £5250 by glasses guide. This has also accrued interest of £704.52 plus legal costs for enforcing the agreement.
Unless this is paid within 14 days court proceedings will be commenced

Are you good folks able to offer any advice or experience on this please.

my first thoughts are to write to them and ask for disclosure on the account and all communications. Surely just because they sold it for less than the guide value, of which I shall request evidence of overall they would not have made a loss considering I had paid at least 2/3 of the term.

suggestions welcome.
thank you.

[R0b]

Re: Marsh car finance termination debt for losses at auction

Hello,

Are you able to upload the letter less your personal info so I can take a look?

Do you have evidence of the VT e.g. sending the letter or Marsh acknowledging the VT?

[Queensburydave]

Re: Marsh car finance termination debt for losses at auction

Hello
Thank you for your message I shall upload today. I have the termination email and acceptance response.

Thank you for taking the time to look at this.
Regards

[Queensburydave]

Re: Marsh car finance termination debt for losses at auction

Good morning

Thank you for taking interest in this post. Any thoughts you can give on this would be appreciated. I'm really not sure how to proceed. My thoughts are, this is not enforceable and I should request a disclosure of information requesting all communication to be evidenced. I'm conscious however time is limited. Could this really be enforceable? Have you seen this before?

Thanks again for your assistance.


From: Dale <dale@marshfinance.co.uk>
Sent: Tue, Sep 16, 2014 11:31 AM
Subject: FW: Voluntary termination SN10….


Dear Mr ,

Thank you for your email,

Further to your email requestingtermination of your account. You are required to pay us half the amount payableon your Hire Purchase Agreement (HPA) plus any overdue payments. Half theamount payable on your HPA is £9,831.12. You have paid to date £12,216.77. Thearrears on your account are £0.00, Therefore the amount we require you to payto terminate your Agreement is £0.00. Please note you will not receive a refundfor any payments made over the required amount. We will send your details toour independent collector who will contact you directly within 3 to 5 workingdays to make suitable arrangements with you to have the vehicle collected. Thevehicle will be inspected upon collection to ensure it is in a reasonablecondition as stated in the terms of your Hire Purchase Agreement. We willrefuse to accept a vehicle back in an unreasonable condition. If the vehiclehas outstanding damage that is to be considered above fair wear and tear youwill advised of this upon collection and may be charged for this at a later date,if the damage exceeds that £1000.00 we may refuse to collect the vehicle. Ifyou refuse to sign the vehicle back into our possession or fail to attend anyappointments that may have been agreed then the collection will be aborted anda fee of £155.00 + VAT will be applied to your account and will need to be paidbefore we can re-arrange collection. Please ensure the vehicle is road worthyand mechanically sound as it will need to be driven away, if we are unable todrive the vehicle away again we will have to cancel the collection and theabort fee of £155.00 + VAT will be applied. The vehicle must also have acurrent M.O.T or we cannot collect it. The V5 keeper document will also need tobe provided as a fee of £25.00 will be incurred for a replacement to beprovided. If we are unable to arrange collection before your next instalmentfalls due (26/09/2014) then we may require this payment to be made as normal toprevent any issues in relation to the return of the vehicle.

Please confirm that you have read theabove and agree to the Voluntary Termination procedures, once so we will beginthe process and will forward your details accordingly to our independentcollectors who will then contact you directly to make arrangements with you tohave the vehicle returned.

Yours sincerely

Marsh Finance Ltd
2 Chichester Court
Milnrow Road
Rochdale
OL16 1UG
Tel: 08448 460 360
Email: enquiries@marshfinance.co.uk
Web: www.marshfinance.co.uk

Pleaseconsider the environment before printing this email.

Thisemail and any files transmitted with it are confidential an intended solely forthe use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you havereceived this email in error, please let us know by replying to the sender andimmediately delete this email from your system. Please note in thesecircumstances, the use, disclosure, distribution or copying of this informationis strictly prohibited.

---

Sent: 16 September 2014 09:46
To: Finance; enquiries@marshfinance.co.uk
Subject: Voluntary termination SN10 FYL


Agreement number
Name
Ref

Dear sirs

Due to unforeseencircumstances I shall be voluntarily terminating my agreement with yourselvesre the above and as per my rights set out within your contract terms. Page 2 -termination and repossession

To date I havecompleted ALL payment on time without lateness or delay having paid the initialdeposit of £990 and 29x£387.13, a total of £12,216.77, exceeding the set outamount of £9831.12 within the agreement. Please be advised I shall be returningthe vehicle in reasonable condition with a full service having been completedtoday 16.09.14 (also power steering repairs) and a full recent MOT, 4good tyres, 87k miles and full working order (a good car, I would be happy tokeep). I shall be returning the vehicle prior to the close of this month andask for confirmation that no further payments are taken. I understand this isreflected simply as an early settlement as per my rights set out in youragreement.

I understand thevehicle should be returned to the below address
Marsh Finance ltd
2 Chichester court
Milnrow road
Rochdale
OL16 1UG

Please advise andconfirm you wish for the vehicle to be returned to the above and yourpreferred time, date, etc.

[Queensburydave]

Re: Marsh car finance termination debt for losses at auction

Please find attached this weeks letter also.

Thank you

[R0b]

Re: Marsh car finance termination debt for losses at auction

What a load of rubbish, sounds like a scare tactic to me. Here are a couple of points I would note:

* First of all, I would be concerned as to why they are now contacting you more than 6 months after the car had been sold.

* They sold the car at auction which was of their own volition when they could have sold the car privately or through a dealership. It is common knowledge that selling cars at auction is likely to attract the least value and in that respect, they contributed to their own losses.

* You terminated the agreement under s.99 of the CCA, liability of which is strictly limited to 50% of the total price payable. Such liability explicitly excludes compensation for any losses of the vehicle.

* They have suggested an additional sum of £704.52 but have given no indication as to what these sums amount to, therefore evidence is required. Nonetheless, it is denied that such sums are owed.

* In the spirit of the pre-action protocol and the overriding objective, you require all evidence they wish to rely upon as to why the sum of £1,804.52 is owed and how it has been calculated. If they fail to comply, you will refer this letter to the judge when it comes to any award of costs and in any event, you will consider counterclaiming against Marsh Finance for malicious prosecution, namely that there is no case to answer.

You don't have to include the last bit about malicious prosecution but is entirely up to you. You could perhaps draft something along those lines, happy to have a look over if you post up a draft.

Edit: You may also wish to make a formal complaint against them which in accordance with the FCA Rules (that they must comply with) any legal proceedings must be halted whilst an investigation takes place.

[Queensburydave]

Re: Marsh car finance termination debt for losses at auction

Thank you again for taking the time to respond with your thoughts on this matter.

Below is my first draft, for which I would appreciate review.

Many thanks again.


Dear Sirs

I am in receipt of yourletter dated 15^th May 2017 (ref CAV005.......)

I am writing to adviseyou that this has caused me a great deal of concern, and I wholly dispute yourrequest for payment and deniy that such sums are due.

Please note also that byway of this letter and supporting documents, I wish to raise a formal complaint,I have copied in your complaints department and will have no hesitation toescalate to the FCA if required. Inaccordance with the FCA rules you are required to withhold from any legal proceedingsuntil such time that we have both concluded on this complaint investigation

I would ask you to provide all communications, including recordings of the referredto telephone calls and written communication mentioned within your letter Itherefore require you to provide the following for all accounts relating to me

- Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existedbetween myself and your organisation, including true copies of any documentsyou hold in support of the same.
- A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of myLoan Accounts with your organisation.
- Copies of all documents which include any of my personal informationincluding copies of any contacts or invoices, emails or computer recordscontaining my personal information, or any records which pertain to thisinformation.
- Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or anyother format which you have entered into with any individual, organization orthird party which contains my personal or financial, or which pertains to me.
I am happy to forward a cheque for the fee of £10 tocover this SAR request. Should this berequired please advise.

* First of all, I amconcerned as to why you are now contacting me more than 30 months after the carhad been sold.

* You state that you sold the car at auction, which was of course at you ownvolition when you could have sold the car privately or through a dealership. Itis common knowledge that selling cars at auction is likely to attract the leastvalue, and in that respect, you contributed to any losses you refer to.

I terminated the agreement under s.99 of the CCA, liability of which isstrictly limited to 50% of the total price payable. As you will see from thecommunications dated 16^th September 2014, Marsh accepted this sumwas more than met. Such liabilityexplicitly excludes compensation for any losses of the vehicle. Please see thebelow/attached emails referencing the termination.



You have suggested an additional sum of £704.52 but have given no indication asto what these sums amount to, therefore evidence is required. Nonetheless, itis denied that such sums are owed.

In the spirit of the pre-action protocoland the overriding objective, I require all evidence you wish to rely upon asto why the sum of £1,804.52 is owed and how it has been calculated. As above I also request a full disclosure ofall communications including recordings and statement of accounts to date towhich you can refer to.

If you fail to comply, Ishall refer this letter to the judge when it comes to any award of costs.

If you are unable toagree to close this matter, I await your full responses within 30days andremind you that as this letter makes up a formal complaint no further legalaction can take place until the investigation is concluded.

Regards

[R0b]

Re: Marsh car finance termination debt for losses at auction

Inaccordance with the FCA rules you are required to withhold from any legal proceedingsuntil such time that we have both concluded on this complaint investigation

Perhaps more explicitly suggest Rule 7.14.1 requires Marsh to suspend all actions for the recovery of the debt if there is a dispute on valid grounds (see Rule 7.14.2) .. You will be aware that as a lender regulated by the FCA, Marsh Finance is legally obliged to comply with all Rules set out in the FCA handbook and in this case, the CONC.

You can read about it on this link here https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/CONC/7/14.html and if they fail to comply, then you can add that to your defence.

* First of all, I amconcerned as to why you are now contacting me more than 30 months after the carhad been sold.

The above would sensibly be at the beginning of the letter

In the spirit of the pre-action protocoland the overriding objective, I require all evidence you wish to rely upon asto why the sum of £1,804.52 is owed and how it has been calculated. In particular, I require you to provide the following information:

1. A copy of the signed agreement between yourself and Marsh Finance
2. Detailed reasons why you believe that the sum of £1,100 is owed
3. A full break down of the sum of £704.52 and how it has been calculated
4. Any other information you seek to rely upon in support of your claim

Suggested amended wording above. I would remove the bit in bold about SAR, you can request that at a later date.

I would also suggest where you have copied my points you maybe begin the sentence with something along the lines of notwithstanding the above:

(a) You state that you sold the car at auction, which was of course at you ownvolition when you could have sold the car privately or through a dealership. Itis common knowledge that selling cars at auction is likely to attract the leastvalue, and in that respect, you contributed to any losses you refer to; and in any event

(b) I terminated the agreement under s.99 of the CCA, liability of which isstrictly limited to 50% of the total price payable. As you will see from thecommunications dated 16^th September 2014, Marsh accepted this sumwas more than met. Such liability explicitly excludes compensation for any losses of the vehicle. Please see thebelow/attached emails referencing the termination.

You may also want to refer to your email above that you posted in September 2014, confirming that as you have paid over 50% your liability is £0.00

Also to add, you could mention as part of your complaint section that Marsh have up to 8 weeks to investigate and provide a final response, which if you are not satisfied can then make a further complaint to the Financial Ombudsman. The bottom bit about 30 days would need to be removed.