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Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

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  • Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

    I can't find a definitive answer/court case to this.

    Scenario
    Housing Assn (HA) block of flats.
    Lots of parking spaces (not individually allocated).

    Driver goes by pre-arrangement to pick up a new resident of approx 1 month. (Pulls into a space to wait for resident. Waits in car).
    Car refuses to restart.
    Resident had not been given any permits by HA (Resident does not drive, so hasn't been an issue as such).
    Resident phones HA to get permit......took 10 days or so to arrive..
    Vehicle removed from site as soon as possible......well before permit arrived.
    Received 2 windscreen tickets on same day as breakdown.....30 minutes apart. (I'm pretty sure that's not on!)
    No other tickets were issued.
    Parking co (PPS) chased both via post.
    RK contested the 2 in one email via PPS......both turned down. (After careful consideration....Right! )
    Now to POPLA..........

    Obviously there was no intention to park, so no intention to create legal relations.
    Does anyone know of a similar court case or appeal?
    Or have any ideas?
    (Btw, driver has not been identified).
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb


    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.


    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

    [MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] , [MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION] or [MENTION=101521]Gevans67[/MENTION] will know more ... but can you get hold of the tenancy agreement??
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

    ~~~~~

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
    But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

    Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

      Originally posted by Kati View Post
      @mystery1 , @ostell or @Gevans67 will know more ... but can you get hold of the tenancy agreement??
      Yep, got that.
      Doesn't really say a lot re parking other than the site is managed, & residents have an unspecified period to make arrangements to obtain permits.
      CAVEAT LECTOR

      This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

      You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
      Cohen, Herb


      There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
      gets his brain a-going.
      Phelps, C. C.


      "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
      The last words of John Sedgwick

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

        Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
        Yep, got that.
        Doesn't really say a lot re parking other than the site is managed, & residents have an unspecified period to make arrangements to obtain permits.
        can I have a copy??
        Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

        It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

        recte agens confido

        ~~~~~

        Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

        I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
        But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

        Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

          Originally posted by Kati View Post
          can I have a copy??
          Lol!
          Scanner is bust.....dog chewed through cable (luckily the low-voltage side).
          I'll try to do a photo, but now your asking me to get all techie!
          CAVEAT LECTOR

          This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

          You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
          Cohen, Herb


          There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
          gets his brain a-going.
          Phelps, C. C.


          "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
          The last words of John Sedgwick

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

            Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
            I'll try to do a photo, but now your asking me to get all techie!
            you can email me a phone pic??

            - - - Updated - - -

            ??
            Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

            It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

            recte agens confido

            ~~~~~

            Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

            I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
            But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

            Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

              Originally posted by Kati View Post
              you can email me a phone pic??


              "I do not know" is the beginning of wisdom?
              I must be uber wise......for me, it's the middle & end as well!

              Bear with me..........I may be some time.

              CAVEAT LECTOR

              This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

              You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
              Cohen, Herb


              There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
              gets his brain a-going.
              Phelps, C. C.


              "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
              The last words of John Sedgwick

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

                Any signage within the area concerned? Presumably parking by permit only? Landowner issue and unless the parking co. has exclusive possession e.g. A lease, cannot have any standing to bring a claim. Not sure if a POPLA appeal would take that into account as it's a legal issue.

                If for whatever reason a contract did apply, frustration is the only one defence which springs to mind that may have any chance of being allowed.

                What is the purpose of the person collecting the new tenant and what relationship does the person driving the car have with the HA? If close relati Ship or acting as an agent there it is arguable that it is implied a right to park there having acting on behalf of HA.
                If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

                  Originally posted by R0b View Post
                  Any signage within the area concerned?
                  See attached.
                  Presumably parking by permit only?
                  Yep.
                  Landowner issue and unless the parking co. has exclusive possession e.g. A lease, cannot have any standing to bring a claim. Not sure if a POPLA appeal would take that into account as it's a legal issue.

                  If for whatever reason a contract did apply, frustration is the only one defence which springs to mind that may have any chance of being allowed.

                  What is the purpose of the person collecting the new tenant and what relationship does the person driving the car have with the HA? If close relati Ship or acting as an agent there it is arguable that it is implied a right to park there having acting on behalf of HA.
                  Family member collecting resident & giving a lift.
                  Cheers, R0b
                  Attached Files
                  CAVEAT LECTOR

                  This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                  You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                  Cohen, Herb


                  There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                  gets his brain a-going.
                  Phelps, C. C.


                  "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                  The last words of John Sedgwick

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

                    [MENTION=101521]Gevans67[/MENTION] ... forbidding signage?? permit-holders only?? ~(Would Barry know??)
                    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

                    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

                    recte agens confido

                    ~~~~~

                    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                    I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
                    But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

                    Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

                      Just checking.
                      Via Sch 4 PoFA, if a notice is attached to the vehicle/given to driver, I read the situation as
                      28 days to allow for payment.
                      If not paid, after 28 days but before 56 days, reg keeper details obtained via DVLA & NTK served.
                      Have I got that right?
                      CAVEAT LECTOR

                      This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                      You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                      Cohen, Herb


                      There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                      gets his brain a-going.
                      Phelps, C. C.


                      "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                      The last words of John Sedgwick

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

                        My view is that the sign should be construed in a way which the parties meant it to be.

                        PRIVATE LAND PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY
                        The primary purpose is clearly to not permit anyone from parking unless they are authorised to do so, which is by way of a permit. So it is therefore a prohibited sign.

                        Unauthorised parking ... will result in a parking charge notice of £100
                        That is effectively the statement for damages if you trespass and park without permission.

                        By parking on this land you contractually agree to pay the displayed charge.
                        The above conflicts with the prohibition, it can't be both a contract and a trespass, it must be one or the other.

                        Overall, I would regard the sign as a prohibited one which only the landowner or person who has exclusive possession can bring a claim for. The parking co. instructed to manage the area cannot be taken to have exclusive possession of the land and if they argue otherwise, then you would require a copy of the lease and/or confirmation from the HA that the land is indeed leased to them. If not, it is the HA who is responsible for bringing any claim.

                        I am no expert on parking charges Charity so I wouldn't know if any legal arguments would fly with POPLA that's probably a question for M1 to answer.
                        If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                        LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                        Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

                          Originally posted by charitynjw View Post
                          Just checking.
                          Via Sch 4 PoFA, if a notice is attached to the vehicle/given to driver, I read the situation as
                          28 days to allow for payment.
                          If not paid, after 28 days but before 56 days, reg keeper details obtained via DVLA & NTK served.
                          Have I got that right?
                          I had a quick look at the Schedule, that would appear correct from my understanding? NTK can be served by post between day 29 & day up to day 56.
                          If you have a question about the voluntary termination process, please read this guide first, as it should have all the answers you need. Please do not hijack another person's thread as I will not respond to you
                          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                          LEGAL DISCLAIMER
                          Please be aware that this is a public forum and is therefore accessible to anyone. The content I post on this forum is not intended to be legal advice nor does it establish any client-lawyer type relationship between you and me. Therefore any use of my content is at your own risk and I cannot be held responsible in any way. It is always recommended that you seek independent legal advice.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Car broke down.....now parking charge notices.

                            Originally posted by Kati View Post
                            can I have a copy??
                            Hi Kati

                            I have, at last, accessed the tenancy agreement.
                            There is nothing in it which specifically mentions parking arrangements or responsibilities.
                            The closest in the signed agreement is -

                            Roadways
                            (13)
                            Not to block local roadways and other vehicular access, and to keep them, and car parking spaces, clear of unroadworthy vehicles and other obstructions.

                            There is mention in the 'welcome' letter (not part of the signed agreement)
                            "When you have lived in the property for a few weeks you will be more familiar with the services we provide, parking and bin cycles."

                            That's the lot!
                            CAVEAT LECTOR

                            This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                            You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                            Cohen, Herb


                            There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                            gets his brain a-going.
                            Phelps, C. C.


                            "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                            The last words of John Sedgwick

                            Comment

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