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  1. #26
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    @R0b
    Today I have received the final decision from FO - bad news for me - they've upheld the original investigators decision. (btw,would you want me to send you the docs?)
    I am so angry. And I know now, the debt collection agency will now be winging out a letter pronto with increased charges. I suppose if I went to court and lose again I'm really in deep financial doo-doo?
    Last edited by wanderlust9; 24th October 2017 at 20:16:PM.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Can I PM you R0b?

  3. #28
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Sorry I missed this, the FO's decision is not binding so it is up to you whether you want to come to a settlement or not. The FO does not strictly take into account the law whereas a court will.

    You can upload the decision on here if you like but make sure to redact any personal information. Even if you went to court, you have one month (if you lost) from the date of the judgment to pay up without getting a CCJ. It can take up to 6 months or more before a hearing takes place and in that time you could set aside some money each month just in case that does happen.

    I can't tell you what the best option is but that is something for you to decide taking everything into account.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  4. #29
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Thats ok R0b, I know you must be dealing at many, many posts. I've got til 23 Nov to reply to FO with either my acceptance or rejection. I know ultimately its my decision, but I dont know whats best to do. I dont know how strong a case I have. I wouldn't even know where to start going to court. I'm worried if I go to court and lose, I will have more even costs. Also, when the debt collector sent their first letter in August, it had went up to £800 even whilst it was still in dispute at that point. FO have now sent a copy of their final decision to Startline. Thanks

  5. #30
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Just noticed on FO website, in the last 4yrs they have upheld for Startline about 50% of 31 cases

  6. #31
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    The reality is that damages on a vehicle is a subjective thing. Almost all lenders including Startline use the BVRLA guidelines which in my opinion is flawed when you look at the criteria. The guidelines do not take into account the age of the vehicle so it does not matter whether it is a brand new car or a used car which is 8 years old like yours, the same guidelines will apply which seems a little illogical.

    As with many threads on here, for damages claims it is up to the lender to prove their claim. They will need to show the vehicles condition when it was passed to you and then how far you've defaulted when it was handed back over. The problem is they don't have that info so they're not going to be in a great position, especially if you can show you took reasonable care of it.

    Everything is contained on the VT Guide including a section on going to court, you may wish to read it and make your own mind.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  7. #32
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Ok, thanks for that R0b. I will be looking at the guide before making a decision

  8. #33
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    @R0b
    I'm going to bite the bullet as I still feel strongly about this. Guess I'm gonna have to seek out a local solicitor, even if its just to see if they think I've got a half decent case? So I take it I now contact the FO to reject their decision, then Startline will take me to court?
    Last edited by wanderlust9; 1st November 2017 at 16:02:PM.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    I am not so sure Startline will take you to court if you reject the FO's decision, well not straight away at least.

    Seeking a local solicitor to get a consultation (either free or for a small amount) and perhaps they might offer a fixed fee to represent you, but certainly shop around. Do note that as any court proceedings are likely to be in the small claims track you are not going to be able to recover legal fees unless you are able to agree a settlement with Startline.

    If however, you are confident of doing this on your own, I do have a template Particulars of Claim for breach of data protection that I used against Santander when they defaulted me relating to collection charges that you may wish to use to adapt to your own case.

    But in the first instance, you might want to write a letter before action yourself to Startline before engaging with any solicitor or issuing a claim so at least the ball is rolling or if you send the LBA yourself you can consult a lawyer in the meantime whilst you wait and consider your options - just to keep the costs down that's all.

    Since the sums for compensation are likely to be relatively small, firms might not wish to take your case on as it may not be viable so just be aware of that.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  10. #35
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Thankyou R0b. Have been trying to find an LBA template on site. Can you point me in right direction please? I'm going to contact some solicitors. Also trying to recover pics I took, although mine were of each full panel size, whereas theirs have been take very close up. I'm still surprised that, as they sold the car at auction, they haven't/wont be able to show any proof of repairs supposedly carried out as I have asked from them, only a bill.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Hello,

    I haven't provided a template on here but I will have a look and see if I can dig out one I've done before.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  12. #37
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Thanks R0b. I think it was an estimate they sent, not a bill - a different thing altogether! But in anycase, I know they wouldn't have carried out any repairs. I'm going to work shortly, so will take a look back tomorrow.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderlust9 View Post
    Thanks R0b. I think it was an estimate they sent, not a bill - a different thing altogether! But in any case, I know they wouldn't have carried out any repairs. I'm going to work shortly, so will take a look back tomorrow.
    Morning, below is an example LBC for something like this though I am not sure it completely fits your situation so you may need to adapt it to suit - see the points in brackets below. I've also provided a link to the word document too which you can find here -> Dropbox Link



    ------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Letter before claim: [your name] v [company name]

    I am writing to you concerning a hire-purchase agreement between [full name of company] [(‘company name’)] and myself dated [insert date] (the ‘Agreement’).

    The purpose of this letter is to put you on notice of my intention to commence legal proceedings against [company name] in connection with a statutory breach, namely the Data Protection Act 1998 (the ‘DPA 1998’).

    Basis of the claim
    As outlined above, the claim concerns a statutory breach of section 5 of the Act and in particular, a breach Principle 1 and/or Principle 4. The breach relates to [company name] informing [name of agency] that a default should be recorded against my credit file in connection with disputed charges sought by [company name] under the Agreement.

    Factual background
    By a written agreement date [insert date] between [company name] and myself, I agreed to hire a [insert make and model of vehicle] with the registration number [number] (the ‘Agreement’). The Agreement was regulated and subject to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (‘CCA 1974’) and the total price payable was [£amount] payable by equal monthly instalments of [£amount].

    On or about [insert date], I wrote to [company name] giving notice termination in accordance with the provisions of the Agreement and/or section 99 of the CCA 1974 and which [company name] duly acknowledged on [insert date]. Following collection of the vehicle on [insert date], I received an invoice from [company name] alleging charges in relation to [insert details e.g. excess mileage, damage to the vehicle etc.] totalling [£amount]. I disputed these charges on the basis that [explain reasons why e.g. the vehicle was returned in a reasonable condition, excess mileage charges are not contractually enforceable by virtue of section 100 of the etc.].

    It has since come to my attention that [company name] have recorded a default with the credit reference agency [full name of agency] [(‘name of agency’)], though it is not clear if the same also applies to other agencies. As there is no description on my credit file as to what these charges are for, I can only surmise that the default relates to the above-mentioned charges.

    Breach of the DPA 1998
    [company name] is a data controller in respect of the personal data that it holds about me. Furthermore, it is a general duty of the Information Commissioner (under the DPA 1998) to promote good practice and ensure that data controllers observe compliance by issuing appropriate codes of practice. In breach of the DPA 1998, [company name] recorded a default contrary to the Information Commissioner’s technical guidance on (1) Filing defaults with credit reference agencies and (2) Principles for the Reporting of Arrears, Arrangements and Defaults at Credit Reference Agencies. Specifically, [company name]:

    · filed a default where there is a genuine, reasonable and unresolved dispute in respect of the alleged charges. [company name] has ignored the evidence and failed to substantiate the disputed information as well as refusing to test their claim in court;

    · failed to notify me of their intention to register a default at least 28 days before the default was recorded;

    · filed a default which related to a sum made up solely of fees and/or charges. As these sums do not relate to the credit borrowed under the agreement, the default does not accurately reflect my creditworthiness and is therefore misleading.

    By reason of the default, this has caused considerable distress and but it has also affected me in other ways such as the ability to obtain credit or a mortgage, or at least a favourable interest rate. In light of this, a breach of this kind is actionable in the civil courts whereby damages can be sought due to the negative affect adverse entries can have on a person’s credit file (as can be seen in Durkin v DSG Retail Ltd & Anor [2014] UKSC 21).

    Next steps
    In the first instance, I am prepared to resolve this matter in an amicable way and without the need to issue proceedings. To this end, provided that [company name] agrees to:

    1. remove any and all adverse entries reported to all credit reference agencies, including but not limited to, default markers, default or outstanding balance etc.; and

    2. ensure that the account in question is closed down and marked as ‘settled’; and

    3. agrees to pay a sum of [£amount] by way of bank transfer and in cleared funds,

    then no further action will be taken.

    Should [company name] wish to discuss this further, please ensure that all correspondence is made in writing as verbal discussions will not be entered into. The offer shall remain open until 4:00pm on [14 days from date of letter] and if no acceptance is forthcoming, then the offer shall expire and will be immediately revoked.

    Alternatively, should [company name] deny liability in respect of the above, please provide a detailed response outlining the reasons why. Not responding to this letter may lead to further aggravation and an increase of incurred costs. I refer you to paragraphs 13 to 16 (inclusive) of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (the ‘Protocol’) which concerns the court’s powers to impose sanctions for failing to comply with its provisions.

    In any event, if no satisfactory resolution is forthcoming, I will have no other choice but to commence proceedings against [company name] without further notice. If this is the case, then the compensation sought will increase to [£amount] which I believe to be the sum of damages available for this type of statutory breach. I will also seek further incurred costs such as application fees and interest on the damages.


    I look forward to hearing from you by [insert date].


    Yours faithfully,


    [insert name]


    Enc. [insert list of enclosed documents and clearly referenced]
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  14. #39
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Oh I'm very sorry. The LBA below looks like to do with a default on credit file. I think I've not made myself clear. They had put a default on my file, but when I enquired about it, they removed it. Or do I just miss out the parts mentioning default and use the rest? Excuse my ignorance and thanks for your patience. Meanwhile, will I sent my rejection decision to the FO?

  15. #40
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    So why exactly are you wanting to take them to court if they have removed the default on your file?

    If you want to reject the FO's decision that's up to you, even if you don't respond I believe it is automatically rejected anyway.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  16. #41
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    1. Because I disagree with damage and costs (no actual evidence of any repair work anyway) and 2, they sold the debt on whilst still in dispute.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    In that case it's probably not a wise idea for you to pursue this unless there is a detriment on your part i.e. the filing of a default.

    You have to remember that the burden of proof lies with the finance company and/or subsequently the debt purchaser, so there would be no need for you to take the first step and initiate the claim - let them do that if they ever want to. They have 6 years to bring a claim so you should retain all correspondence and paperwork for at least that time, maybe a little longer to err on the side of caution. It may even be the case that the debt purchaser issues proceedings at some point given that they've paid for a debt they might want to have go at recovering it.

    So the best course of action would be to wait it out and see what happens. The lender probably has a right to assign the debt irrespective of whether it's in dispute or not and it would be uncommon to issue a claim disputing charges against you which would mean some kind of declaration that will come at a cost (more than limited costs in small claims).
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  18. #43
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    So are you meaning I should just wait to see what they do? I'm also kinda worried the debt collection agency is going to keep raising the debt amount

    oops, my post has got crossed with yours. i understand what your saying. Thanks

  19. #44
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Whether or not debt collection charges can be added will be determined by the terms of the contract, and these agreements don't always that sort of wording in there to allow recovery of further charges. Even still, you could argue there may be an unfair relationship in that they already know your position so if they kept on sending you letters deliberately racking up fees then that could be considered unfair, if not a form of harassment.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  20. #45
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Thanks for all your help, so far R0b I'll wait and see what happens. need my zzzz's now

  21. #46
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    @R0b
    Hi again, I emailed FO to inform them I rejected their final decision and next day received letter from Link saying I was being given the opportunity to pay debt by monthly instalments. I still disagree with amount charged anyway. As I mentioned before, I'm really not sure how to respond to them . Btw, I finally managed to recover the photos I took of the car before it was taken away. However they are not as clear, or as many, or as close up as Manheims . What would your advice be regarding dealing with Link?
    Last edited by wanderlust9; 15th November 2017 at 23:41:PM.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    I don't have much more to add than what I've already said. Damage to a vehicle is subjective so it's difficult to really pin point what's reasonable and what's not, apart from the obvious.

    If your photos are taken from a reaosnable distance and show that the car overall, looks to be in a reasonable condition then you could argue that is all that is necessary to discharge your duty. If Manheim had to get really close up and zoom in to take a detailed picture of the alleged damage, then it is arguable that goes beyond the requirement of 'reasonable' because they are having to carry out a more detailed inspection in order to bring out these damages - of course that is one side to the argument and Link will say the opposite.

    What you do next is up to you, you can either offer something to make it go away or you can continue to defend it and see what they do. If you are going to offer something, maybe start on the lower end like 20-30% and work your way up to what is the maximum your willing to pay e.g. 40% of the amount - if something like this is agreed and you can't pay in one lump sum then consider offering in 2 or 3 instalments instead.

    Otherwise, if nothing is offered, then its simply a waiting game and you acknowledge the risks that might come with it.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  23. #48
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Well @R0b, I just have to thank you for all your help and guidance I wouldn't have had a clue what I was doing if I hadn't found this forum. Obviously my worries aren't over by a long stretch, but as I'm currently enquiring about dealing with the DCA, I've thought it more appropriate to start a new thread in that section of the forum. Thanks once again, your a star

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