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  1. #1
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default VT advice please

    I sent a VT request to finance co. (Startline) on 26/4 using the template on here.
    They have not sent me anything except confirmed receipt of email, after which I cancelled DD.
    Email stated Manheim Auction would call me re. collection - a week has passed - no call. (Car is on public road)
    Contacted Startline - they gave me number for Manheim and also advised I would have to pay for collection - I said I wouldnt.
    So is my next step to send letter disputing collection charges? Any advice appreciated

  2. #2
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    68 views and no replies. Guess I'll send the dispute template

  3. #3
    Diana M's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by wanderlust9 View Post
    68 views and no replies
    You started this thread on a weekend - the advice givers are volunteers.

    See what tomorrow brings.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forum’s site rules don’t allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email [email protected]. Our initial advice is always free.


    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    It's not you that pays for Manheim to collect, it is Startline. It would no doubt say that you are liable to pay for collection fees if you terminate and want the car collecting but the Consumer Credit Act limits your liability which does not include collection costs. Of course you are free to return the vehicle at your own cost to a location of their choice but it is not always feasible since a Manheim auction could be miles away, at which point you might want to confirm in writing that they would pay for your costs in returning the car (unlikely however).

    If you don't want to pay or return the car, then you refuse to and put it in writing and suggest they collect it.
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  5. #5
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Thanks for the reply R0b. I will send the template. So when car is collected, is it then I cancel my tax & insurance and enter Startline's details on V5 and send to DVLA?
    Last edited by wanderlust9; 8th May 2017 at 15:51:PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    After phone call today, getting worried. I said I still want car collected but advisor said I would incur £183 collection charges. I had already sent email (below) which they have. She eventually said she would arrange for the car to be collected meantime, but the charges will still be outstanding. I quoted the CCA again, but she kept saying if I dont pay, it will get passed to their debt collection agency (which she named). I requested she relayed their standpoint in writing to which she agreed.

    I am writing further to your telephone call of 05/05/2017.I am under no obligation to pay any fees for the collection of the vehicle. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 explicitly states that, my liability under the agreement is limited to half the total amount payable and any terms under the agreement which imposes additional liability directly or indirectly is strictly prohibited by the Act. As such, I shall not be paying any collection fees.
    May I remind you that I wrote to you on 25/04/17 confirming termination of the vehicle. Should you refuse to collect the vehicle within 7 days of this email, I shall cancel the remaining tax and insurance and return the V5C document to the DVLA informing them that you are now the registered keeper of the vehicle, and any subsequent liability shall rest with you.
    I would therefore urge you to arrange collection of the vehicle at the earliest opportunity to avoid any issues with the vehicle.
    Also, what happens exactly when they come for car? (From checklist, I only know what I need to do beforehand) Hoping someone can advise me further (and hopefully quickly)...and... am I doing things correctly?
    Last edited by wanderlust9; 9th May 2017 at 17:37:PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Received the following email this morning...

    Further to your recent telephone conversation with a customer service advisor. I can confirm that a if you are unable to deliver the vehicle, we would require payment of #183.00 agents fee prior to collection. We need this payment upfront otherwise we will transfer this balance to debt collection company.
    Car is now getting collected this afternoon on behalf of auction company. Is finance co. or auction house the new registered keeper?

  8. #8
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    The lender is always the owner, the auction house is the agent. They can't enforce the collection fee as it creates an additional liability outside of the limited liability, however if you want to pay.. up to you
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    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Well the car was picked up on 10 May and so far I've heard and received nothing - so here's hoping

  10. #10
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Looks like I'm still needing help. Collection charges were dropped but now they want to charge me for damages.
    The car was 8yrs old and imo was in a fair & reasonable condition - ie light scratches which was confirmed by inspection report of collector. I sent them a copy as they requested, but it seems they have ignored it anyway.
    I had taken quite a few photos as advised on forum which frustratingly I am no longer able to access
    I wrote to them advising I was challenging their damages and they reduced it from £691 to £615. No way is there even that amount of damage.
    I know the car has since been sold on and I'm sure if I asked them they wouldn't be able to provide any evidence of any work being carried out anyway.
    Their latest letter says I should contact the FO. Is that my only option at his point? I've only got 2 more days left to reply. (Btw, the buggers have affected my credit score because of 'a late payment'. Paid every month until VT'd!!) . Anyway, any help much appreciated
    Last edited by wanderlust9; 19th July 2017 at 09:29:AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    I had taken quite a few photos as advised on forum which frustratingly I am no longer able to access
    Always back them up and have copies!

    Have they given you a breakdown of the charges? For a car 8 years old it does seem unreasonably high especially if it was purchased as a used car.

    You could contact the FOS and go from there, they may drop the charges after that point (if they receive more than 25 complaints in a year they have to pay the FOS £500 per complaint taken on which wipes out their claim pretty much).

    You are only liable for damage whilst the car was in your possession and if they haven't got any record of the car's condition at the time you purchased then how can they prove it was you and to what extent the damage has been caused? I've referenced a case several times, Brady v St Margaret's Trust if you do a search on the forum you will find a number of threads which I have quoted the same lines - that should assist you.

    As for the late payment, my view is that they are in breach of the Data Protection Act - you can't apply a late payment after you have already terminated the agreement. You could send a letter before action threatening legal action if any adverse entries are not removed but only do so if you are willing to actually follow through with it - hollow threats tend not to work.
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    I hope you see this @R0b

    I contacted the FO, and well, I was astounded when the FO investigator found for Startline.
    I still maintain this damage as 'fair wear and tear' for an 8yr old vehicle I bought secondhand. I've attached the pics taken by Manheim and the investigators decision.


    Some of that damage was already on the car anyway when I bought it, and because of the age of the car I accepted that. I don't see how Manheim can be really independent as their Auction Halls receive all of Startlines vehicles. In any case, I have never been given a breakdown or proof of any supposed work carried out.

    If the Ombudsman agrees with him, I presume my only option would then be to go to court?

    Any advice greatly appreciated
    Attached Files Attached Files

  13. #13
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Doesn't sound like a shock to me really.

    At the end of the day it is an 8 year old car, and Startline cannot recover damages to the vehicle when it wasn't in your possession.

    I've attached a Court of Appeal case which you can use and highlighted the relevant part to support your appeal. You should write back to the FOS and explain this is a binding decision as its a Court of Appeal case, they have acknowledged that the duty is on the lender to prove what damages have occurred whilst in your possession, not blanket charge for all damages (see page 7).

    You should also state that the inspection is carried out in accordance with BVRLA guidelines which does not take into account the age of the vehicle and the likelihood that damage will occur over time. Yes the 'independent' report shows what damage there is to the car, but it doesn't prove that the damage occurred in your possession which is the crucial part.

    I would suggest you also enclose the CAP HPI Conditions chart in the VT guide and if you look at that for a car which is 8 years old, there is likely to be some allowance for damage when it comes to evaluating the car's condition.

    Brady v St Margaret's Trust 1963
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/3vv40fla56...20494.pdf?dl=0

    Link to VT Guide - http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...on-Your-rights

    Also to add, strictly speaking good repair and condition in my eyes is a higher standard than reasonable care under the CCA. And on the basis of Brady, I assume they have no evidence of the car's condition at the start of the agreement. That should be hook, line and sinker however the offices of the FOS like to do things their own way..
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  14. #14
    Kati's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by R0b View Post
    I would suggest you also enclose the CAP HPI Conditions chart in the VT guide and if you look at that for a car which is 8 years old, there is likely to be some allowance for damage when it comes to evaluating the car's condition.
    just for ease xx

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  15. #15
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    I am in still dealing with the FO re. the damage charges, but today I received a 'Notice of Debt' letter from LInk Financial. So already they can chase me for the debt whilst still in dispute?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: VT advice please

    @R0b or Kati - thankyou for your advice so far. I wonder if i could burden you again?

    I am about to reply to the investigators decision. Do you think the following is OK, or does it need added to or bits removed?

    As you could expect, I am very disappointed with the outcome of this matter, therefore I am requesting the Ombudsman look over my complaint before a final decision is made.

    There are a few points I need to raise:

    I was aware of minor damage to the car when I purchased it and made no mention of it, as it was very minor and fair and reasonable for the cars age' Since purchase I had continually looked after the vehicle and only very few light scratches had occurred.

    Also, I don’t consider Manheim to be independent as they receive all Startlines cars at their auctions and therefore I cant agree their report as being 'fair and reasonable'.

    I would also like to point out that Startline have never provided:

    a) Evidence of the car's condition at the start of the agreement
    b) A breakdown of the repair costs incurred
    c) Actual photographic evidence of any repairs carried out

    In any case, I don’t accept the damages as 'accepted nationwide' as the inspection is carried out in accordance with BVRLA guidelines which does not take into account the age of the vehicle and the likelihood that damage will occur over time.

    Please find attached a Court of Appeal case which is a binding decision whereby hey have acknowledged that the duty is on the lender to prove what damages have occurred whilst in my possession, not blanket charge for all damages (see page 7). Also attached is a damage condition chart from CAP HPI which provides more realistic and accurate damage conditions in relation to a vehicles age
    I will of course add the attachments when sending.

    Meantime, how could I best reply to the debt collectors as I am still in dispute of the debt?

    Thanks

  17. #17
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Looks fine, you might want to include a copy of the extract I mentioned on the VT Guide about that they have to first prove there was no evidence and then secondly they have to provide evidence of the market value of the car in a reasonable condition and the value of the car in its current condition. Would love what the FOS has to say on that.
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  18. #18
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  19. #19
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Thanks for that R0b. OK I will send off to ombudsman with extract. Will post reply. As I've not dealt with a debt collection agency before, but need to reply (letter attached), I kinda made this up from what I found online:

    I am responding to your contact about collecting a debt. You contacted me by letter dated 21 Aug. I formally dispute this debt. Please provide me with documentation that supports why you believe this debt belongs to me, and why you believe I owe this amount. Please send me copies of the original application for this account, any signatures associated with this account, any bills associated with this account etc.
    Is the wording relevant and useful for my situation?
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  20. #20
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Not particularly,

    You could send a few lines saying that the matter is still in the hands of the Financial Ombudsman and therefore they should refrain from contacting you whilst the complaint is ongoing. It is a breach of the FCA rules to pursue a disputed debt, particularly where there is an ongoing complaint.
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  21. #21
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Ok, I'll change that. I have seen the quote/text from the Brady case, but I would prefer to attach the document/image of it, that I remember seeing somewhere on here before, which I cant find now, Can you help with that please? Thanks again

  22. #22
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    I've attached the case and highlighted the relevant paragraph on page 7.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    DISCLAIMER: ANY CONTENT I POST IS INTENDED FOR EDUCATIONAL AND INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT A REPLACEMENT OR SUBSTITUTION FOR LEGAL ADVICE. I MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF MY POSTS NOR DO I ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY. USE OF ANY CONTENT IS SOLELY AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST AND I ACCEPT NO LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  23. #23
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    So now I'm awaiting a final decision from FOS.

    Also, i would like to tell you that recently I had the below response from a dispute I raised with Equifax about a default put on my credit file by Startline


    Thank you for getting in touch.
    Startline Motor Finance Ltd (I) has investigated your query and has told Equifax the information you were disputing is correct and will remain unchanged. This information is supplied by the company and Equifax cannot change it or remove it without their authorisation.
    The company has stated the following:
    Voluntary Termination still reports as a default on customers credit file as they are liable for any outstanding balance/damages. Regardless of when the balance is cleared, the default will remain for the full 6 year period.

    I am having difficulty understanding how Startline are generating all this just from disputed damages. I think this may well all end up in court.

  24. #24
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Well that's Startlines approach and since they are refusing to back down, you could seek aggravated damages on top of normal damages due to their conduct. If the FOS are not on your side and you wish to pursue it then I am happy to assist where I can

  25. #25
    wanderlust9's Avatar

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    Default Re: VT advice please

    Thankyou R0b. It would appear I might have to take you up on that, which I would appreciate so much

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