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Thread: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

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  1. #26
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    Default Re: Particulars of Claim - County Court

    Quote Originally Posted by KianTierney89 View Post
    I spoke to him on the phone twice, he’s actually really rude. Do I need to add all this new information to the POC (no) or does he need reporting to someone else?(no unless you want to bring it to trading standards attention)

    Responses in red!

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Quote Originally Posted by KianTierney89 View Post
    Receipt attached.
    That doesn't appear to be a "receipt" for your purchase since it hasn't got any financial details on it. Presumably you've got an e-receipt of some sort since you paid online (maybe an email?) to prove your purchase amount and date.

    As kati has said there are no Terms & Conditions on the business' website but were there any visible when you placed the order online? Perhaps some box to tick to say you'd read/agreed them before you could make your payment?

    The Ts & Cs on that Delivery Note say that the customer would have to pay for the the transport costs of the return of any item unless it was being rejected as faulty. (Whether that's fair or not is a different issue.)

    They have refunded you £470 leaving a shortfall of £109.99.

    You said in your first post that the business said you would have to forfeit £89 for the delivery/return costs, so where does the extra £20.99 come from?

    The Delivery Note you signed didn't specify the amount you would have to pay for returning the goods, that box (at the bottom of the page) is blank. I assume you're happy to pay 'blank'

    Furthermore if you weren't given those Ts & Cs until after the goods had arrived you'd lost the opportunity to Agree/Disagree to them (Ts & Cs) when you entered into the contract, unless there was something online you ticked even in a passive way (i.e. before you could continue to the next page).

    Is that squiggle your signature? And whose is the other signature squiggle? If it was a third party delivery/courier (most likely) I'm not sure that they have the legal capacity to enter into any contract on behalf of the retailer/etailer (unless acting as their agent).

    You sent a Letter Before Action/Claim on 9th April. How many days did you give them to respond (14 days would seem reasonable especially with the long Easter Bank Holiday)? If that's the case then it would be unwise to issue a claim before 24th April (assuming it was 14 days you gave them).

    In fact my personal view is that it would be unwise to issue a claim at all until you've got all the facts nailed. It's a lot easier if you do that in advance then do it weeks or months later in a Witness Statement or in front of a DJ.

    You need to put the retailer in a position where they feel there's nothing they can do to prevent court proceedings except pay up now.

    The next thing I would do is write to the business and ask them to explain the reason for the £109.99 withheld since they have admitted liability when they refunded the £420.

    Ask them to provide evidence of the transport costs.

    I would also ask the business to provide evidence of any Terms & Conditions which were available to you when you made the purchase (entered into a contract).

    I'm inclined to believe every word you say but it's not me you're going to have to convince - it'll be a District Judge who will only look at it from a legal perspective.

    The burden of proof always lies with the Claimant so you need to get as much evidence together before you consider court proceedings. Because once those proceedings have been issued that's exactly what the Defendant will be doing (attempting to destroy your legal arguments with their own evidence).

    Personally I don't like to recommend anyone to issue court proceedings except as a last resort. You have until the 24th to think this through (if you gave them 14 days).

    Let's hope common sense will prevail in the meantime especially if you contact your local Tradings Standards team and ask them to intervene and let the retailer know that.

    Even though my day job is all about litigation, I still feel that people need to think carefully and sensibly before using it as a weapon of choice to recover what the court may consider a small sum (£109.99).

    So have another go at getting this money back with the help of Trading Standards before you login to MCOL

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk . Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana M View Post
    That doesn't appear to be a "receipt" for your purchase since it hasn't got any financial details on it. Presumably you've got an e-receipt of some sort since you paid online (maybe an email?) to prove your purchase amount and date.

    As kati has said there are no Terms & Conditions on the business' website but were there any visible when you placed the order online? Perhaps some box to tick to say you'd read/agreed them before you could make your payment?

    The Ts & Cs on that Delivery Note say that the customer would have to pay for the the transport costs of the return of any item unless it was being rejected as faulty. (Whether that's fair or not is a different issue.)

    They have refunded you £470 leaving a shortfall of £109.99.

    You said in your first post that the business said you would have to forfeit £89 for the delivery/return costs, so where does the extra £20.99 come from?

    The Delivery Note you signed didn't specify the amount you would have to pay for returning the goods, that box (at the bottom of the page) is blank. I assume you're happy to pay 'blank'

    Furthermore if you weren't given those Ts & Cs until after the goods had arrived you'd lost the opportunity to Agree/Disagree to them (Ts & Cs) when you entered into the contract, unless there was something online you ticked even in a passive way (i.e. before you could continue to the next page).

    Is that squiggle your signature? And whose is the other signature squiggle? If it was a third party delivery/courier (most likely) I'm not sure that they have the legal capacity to enter into any contract on behalf of the retailer/etailer (unless acting as their agent).

    You sent a Letter Before Action/Claim on 9th April. How many days did you give them to respond (14 days would seem reasonable especially with the long Easter Bank Holiday)? If that's the case then it would be unwise to issue a claim before 24th April (assuming it was 14 days you gave them).

    In fact my personal view is that it would be unwise to issue a claim at all until you've got all the facts nailed. It's a lot easier if you do that in advance then do it weeks or months later in a Witness Statement or in front of a DJ.

    You need to put the retailer in a position where they feel there's nothing they can do to prevent court proceedings except pay up now.

    The next thing I would do is write to the business and ask them to explain the reason for the £109.99 withheld since they have admitted liability when they refunded the £420.

    Ask them to provide evidence of the transport costs.

    I would also ask the business to provide evidence of any Terms & Conditions which were available to you when you made the purchase (entered into a contract).

    I'm inclined to believe every word you say but it's not me you're going to have to convince - it'll be a District Judge who will only look at it from a legal perspective.

    The burden of proof always lies with the Claimant so you need to get as much evidence together before you consider court proceedings. Because once those proceedings have been issued that's exactly what the Defendant will be doing (attempting to destroy your legal arguments with their own evidence).

    Personally I don't like to recommend anyone to issue court proceedings except as a last resort. You have until the 24th to think this through (if you gave them 14 days).

    Let's hope common sense will prevail in the meantime especially if you contact your local Tradings Standards team and ask them to intervene and let the retailer know that.

    Even though my day job is all about litigation, I still feel that people need to think carefully and sensibly before using it as a weapon of choice to recover what the court may consider a small sum (£109.99).

    So have another go at getting this money back with the help of Trading Standards before you login to MCOL

    Di
    That doesn't appear to be a "receipt" for your purchase since it hasn't got any financial details on it. Presumably you've got an e-receipt of some sort since you paid online (maybe an email?) to prove your purchase amount and date.

    The order was placed over the phone and they I got a confirmation via email but it’s simply a sentence saying that they have my order and plan to deliver it, that’s it.

    As kati has said there are no Terms & Conditions on the business' website but were there any visible when you placed the order online? Perhaps some box to tick to say you'd read/agreed them before you could make your payment?

    Please see above.

    The Ts & Cs on that Delivery Note say that the customer would have to pay for the the transport costs of the return of any item unless it was being rejected as faulty. (Whether that's fair or not is a different issue.)

    They have refunded you £470 (£430) leaving a shortfall of £109.99.

    You said in your first post that the business said you would have to forfeit £89 for the delivery/return costs, so where does the extra £20.99 come from?

    I have no idea, I can try and ask him but I doubt he will reply to me.

    The Delivery Note you signed didn't specify the amount you would have to pay for returning the goods, that box (at the bottom of the page) is blank. I assume you're happy to pay 'blank' [IMG]file://localhost/Users/rossfoley/Library/Group%20Containers/UBF8T346G9.Office/msoclip1/01/clip_image002.png[/IMG]

    I am absolutely happy to pay ‘blank’

    Furthermore if you weren't given those Ts & Cs until after the goods had arrived you'd lost the opportunity to Agree/Disagree to them (Ts & Cs) when you entered into the contract, unless there was something online you ticked even in a passive way (i.e. before you could continue to the next page).

    Please see my first reply.

    Is that squiggle your signature? And whose is the other signature squiggle? If it was a third party delivery/courier (most likely) I'm not sure that they have the legal capacity to enter into any contract on behalf of the retailer/etailer (unless acting as their agent).

    That squiggle isn’t my signature, when the sofas were being delivered I was too busy trying to get in contact with the owner to sort out a dispute, the sofas were just dumped and the couriers left. They are by no means a professional company, they just rent vans for the day.

    You sent a Letter Before Action/Claim on 9th April. How many days did you give them to respond (14 days would seem reasonable especially with the long Easter Bank Holiday)? If that's the case then it would be unwise to issue a claim before 24th April (assuming it was 14 days you gave them).

    I gave them 14 days, if I was to issue a claim I was thinking to do it around the 3rd May 2017.

    In fact my personal view is that it would be unwise to issue a claim at all until you've got all the facts nailed. It's a lot easier if you do that in advance then do it weeks or months later in a Witness Statement or in front of a DJ.

    You need to put the retailer in a position where they feel there's nothing they can do to prevent court proceedings except pay up now.

    The next thing I would do is write to the business and ask them to explain the reason for the £109.99 withheld since they have admitted liability when they refunded the £420.

    Ask them to provide evidence of the transport costs.

    I would also ask the business to provide evidence of any Terms & Conditions which were available to you when you made the purchase (entered into a contract).

    I'm inclined to believe every word you say but it's not me you're going to have to convince - it'll be a District Judge who will only look at it from a legal perspective.

    The burden of proof always lies with the Claimant so you need to get as much evidence together before you consider court proceedings. Because once those proceedings have been issued that's exactly what the Defendant will be doing (attempting to destroy your legal arguments with their own evidence).

    Personally I don't like to recommend anyone to issue court proceedings except as a last resort. You have until the 24th to think this through (if you gave them 14 days).

    Let's hope common sense will prevail in the meantime especially if you contact your local Tradings Standards team and ask them to intervene and let the retailer know that.

    Even though my day job is all about litigation, I still feel that people need to think carefully and sensibly before using it as a weapon of choice to recover what the court may consider a small sum (£109.99).

    So have another go at getting this money back with the help of Trading Standards before you login to MCOL

    Di

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thank you for your response Di, I really do appreciate it. I have attempted to get in contact with the owner several times regarding this but he does nothing but ignore me, emails, texts etc. Court is something I want to avoid but with a non responsive owner I can’t see any other option but I will contact trading standards and see what they have to say about the issue.

    Just out of interest, as you work in litigation, do you know how much it would cost to have a professional document to be written to put towards the owner of the company to try and get some response out of him as what I have written has done nothing.

    I would like to be able to do this to them, ‘You need to put the retailer in a position where they feel there's nothing they can do to prevent court proceedings except pay up now.’

    Regards,

    Kian

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Quote Originally Posted by KianTierney89 View Post

    Just out of interest, as you work in litigation, do you know how much it would cost to have a professional document to be written to put towards the owner of the company to try and get some response out of him as what I have written has done nothing.
    Phone round your local solicitors and get quotes.
    Then decide it's not worth it! lol

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Judging by that reply, it's probably not

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    If you placed the order over the phone did you also pay the deposit over the phone with your debit card?

    If so you may be able to utilise Chargeback where the bank steps in to deal with the dispute (and refunds your money).

    Read this > http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-righ...use-chargeback

    Or did you simply place the order over the phone but then paid both the deposit and the balance online?

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk . Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Both were over online banking, he seemed to keep insisting on it, now I know why.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    I have asked the owner the following;

    1.Why are you refusing to refund me the £109.00 when you admitted liability by refunding the £430?
    2.Please may I request you provide evidence of the return transport costs.
    3.As a business, are you able to supply me with the terms and conditions which were available to me at the time of purchase?
    4.If the return costs were £89.99, where has the other £20.99 come from?

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Quote Originally Posted by KianTierney89 View Post
    I have asked the owner the following;

    1.Why are you refusing to refund me the £109.00 when you admitted liability by refunding the £430?
    2.Please may I request you provide evidence of the return transport costs.
    3.As a business, are you able to supply me with the terms and conditions which were available to me at the time of purchase?
    4.If the return costs were £89.99, where has the other £20.99 come from?
    You've asked the right questions.

    If you have to issue a claim then you may be able to ask them again in a more formal way (Part 18 questions) depending on what is filed as a Defence.

    Sometimes pre-litigation stuff is as important as litigation.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk . Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Thanks for the reply Di, hopefully he replies.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Quote Originally Posted by KianTierney89 View Post
    Thanks for the reply Di, hopefully he replies.
    Well your LBA doesn't 'expire' until next week (?) so let's see what happens next.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit.

    This forumís site rules donít allow me to give advice by PM but if you need to contact me please email di@joannaconnollysolicitors.co.uk . Our initial advice is always free.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    No response what so ever!

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Still no contact, do I just go ahead now with the court?

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Quote Originally Posted by KianTierney89 View Post
    Still no contact, do I just go ahead now with the court?
    looks like it ... @des8 @Diana M
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

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    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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  15. #40
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    Default Re: Legal Advice - RE: Purchase of Sofa Set

    Quote Originally Posted by KianTierney89 View Post
    Still no contact, do I just go ahead now with the court?
    I would, but wait to see what @Diana M suggests

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