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  1. #26
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    All they had to do was pay £25 OR file an application for fee remission (which no company does). It's worth checking they paid but they probably did.

    When is the deadline for you to file your evidence (including any witness statement) ?

    M1
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    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email [email protected] if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

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  2. #27
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    "Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intends to rely at the hearing no later than fourteen days before the hearing" - so that gives me until Wednesday 19th July to provide them with my witness statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by InnocentMotorist View Post
    http://imgur.com/a/Fc7Kc
    At this link you will find:
    1.0 County Court Claim Form January 2017
    2.0 VCS Final Reminder Notice 16th April 2015
    3.1 VCS Cover Letter -Your account has been passed to our legal team 23rd May 2016
    3.2 BW Legal - First Letter 23rd May 2016
    4.0 BW Legal 21st June 2016 Final Notice
    5.0 BW Legal Letter of Claim 22nd July 2016
    6.1 car park photo with single sided signs x2 september 2014
    6.2 car park photo with double sided signs x3 april 2015
    6.3 VCS Signage
    7.0 VCS Parking Permit

    I used Google maps to decipher when they changed the signage at the premises as you will see from 6.1 and 6.2. It's clear they themselves believed the signage to be insufficient if they have since added an additional sign and made them double sided. Previously the signs were only readable from the road, not from within the car park and so anyone leaving the car park would not be able to see these signs visible. Furthermore the signs are at the immediate entrance the to premises on which a busy road passes so it is unsafe for a driver to stop in the road to read the signs. The driver of the vehicle is confident the signs were not double sided at the time of the claimed incident.

    InnocentMotorist
    In the claimants witness statement they have included photos of the car park where the signage is double sided but the photo is dated 27th March 2015 - several weeks after the claimed offence. Do I have a leg to stand on?

  3. #28
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    I'll get back to you after work if i can (it should be quieter this week hopefully)

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email [email protected] if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    The claimant has paid the court fee in time so i guess id better file my witness statement sharpish!

    Based on the images i've sent so far, is there any other argument you would suggest i include other than insufficient signage?
    - The claimant is relying on the appeal ruling from Chaplair Limited v Kumari [2015] - this concerns a tenancy rental agreement, not motoring.
    - The claimant is also relying on ParkingEye v Beavis - the offence is claimed to have been committed on private land, can this case be called upon?
    - Will they need to prove the defendant was in fact the driver on that day? There is no evidence of the driver
    - Does the claimant need to provide evidence of the incurred costs amounting to the £100 defined in the "contract"

    Thanks again!

  5. #30
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Hi,
    @mystery1
    My defence so far is as follows:

    "Defense
    1. The claimant believes there was sufficient signage on the date of the claimed offence. The defendant believes the contrary is true. See pages [1-4] of document ‘AB01’ where photos of the signage before and after the date of the claimed offence illustrate that the signage had changed. Images [RS1-RS4] of AB01 which is dated September 2014 shows the signage was not double-sided. It also shows that the signage was only visible from the road entrance and therefore could only be read upon entering. Considering the location of these signs it is impossible for a driver to read them without entering the premises as a busy road restricts the opportunity to stop and read the signage. Furthermore once in the premises the signs can still not be read as they are only visible from the road.
    Images [RS5-RS8] dated April 2015 show the signage was changed to be double-sided. The fact that additional signage was added between the dates of September 2014 and April 2015 by Vehicle Control Services (VCS) proves that the claimant themselves did not believe the signage to be sufficient or substantial. I put it to the claimant that the signage on the date in question of 3rd March 2015 was not sufficient or substantial in any terms, including their own."

    Here are the images from 'AB01' - http://imgur.com/a/2VAoa

  6. #31
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by InnocentMotorist View Post
    In the County Court Business Centre, Northampton
    Claim No.: XXXXX
    Between

    XXXXX (Claimant)

    and

    XXXXX (Defendant)

    __________________________________________________ _________________________

    Defence Argument
    __________________________________________________ _________________________


    1. BW Legal are a known Roboclaim firm who file claims without doing any due diligence and without properly establishing any debt is due. At the time of filing a claim they have not even received a copy of the purported contract from the claimant and so cannot possibly meet the practice direction requirements for filing a claim.
    2. The particulars fail to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4 and Practice Direction 16, paragraphs 7.3 – 7.5 (see Appendix 1) as they do not contain a copy of the contract, and do not explain how the contract was concluded. It is allowable to file these within 14 days as additional particulars if they do not fit on the claim form under PD16 3.2(2) and 3.3. However, the claimant did not do this.
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...l/rules/part16
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...rt16/pd_part16
    3. As an example as to why this prevents a defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract (as required by PD 16, para 3.7) will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant
    4. The claimant can file these as further particulars within 14 days as per PD16 3.2(2), but have failed to do so
    5. Practice direction 22 para 3.1 sets out who may sign a statement of truth. Para 3.10 states that ‘A legal representative who signs a statement of truth must sign in his own name and not that of his firm or employer’.
    https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...rt22/pd_part22
    6. The claim is signed by ‘BW Legal’. This therefore does not comply with the requirements.
    7. The Defence therefore asks the court to strike out the claim as having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.
    8. Alternatively, the Defendant asks that the claimant is required to file particulars which comply with practice directions and include at least the following information
    a. Whether the matter is being brought for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge, and an explanation as to the exact nature of the charge
    b. A copy of any contract it is alleged was in place (eg copies of signage)
    c. How any contract was concluded (if by performance, then copies of signage maps in place at the time)
    d. Whether keeper liability is being claimed, and if so copies of any notice to driver/notice to keeper
    e. Whether the Claimant is acting as agent or principal, together with a list of documents they will rely on in this matter
    f. If charges over and above the initial charge are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed
    g. If interest charges are being claimed, the basis on which this is being claimed
    9. Once these particulars have been filed, the Defendant asks for reasonable time to file a defence

    10. Alternatively, as the claimant has not filed proper particulars of claim, the following generic defences are applicable, and can be expanded upon once the particulars have been filed
    h. No contravention occurred
    i. No contract was entered by performance as the signage was not frequent or clearly visible or readable while driving
    j. No contract existed as there was no offer as the wording on the signage was forbidding
    k. The contract was non-binding as it did not comply with the information requirements of the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation And Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, enacted 13 June 2014
    l. The charge was a penalty and/or unfair consumer charge and is not saved by ParkingEye v Beavis as the claimant has not shown how that applies
    m. The location appears to be a public road and the Claimant has not shown they have the authority to issue charges and take court action with a clear chain of authority from the landowner
    n. Keeper liability has not been established and the defendant was not the driver
    o. The Equalities Act 2010 applies and the defendant should have been allowed a reasonable adjustment

    I believe the facts stated in this Defence Statement are true.

    ……………………………………………………. ………………………
    (Defendant) (Date)

    Is this not the defence you filed ?

    I'm off tomorrow now so we should work on your witness statement and get it done by email (obtain any email addresses you'll need asap). It needs filed by 1600.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email [email protected] if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  7. #32
    InnocentMotorist's Avatar

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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Yes that is the defence I filed in January however I don't believe half of that is still applicable given that they have since submitted their witness statement in the proper format and from a named party on behalf of BW Legal.
    I have the email addresses on hand.
    Excellent, as always, thank you for your much needed help!

  8. #33
    InnocentMotorist's Avatar

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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    @mystery1 Do you think i should include all of the above from my previous defence in my witness statement? (Excluding sections 5,6 and 7.)

    I'm conscious of the time and that i need to submit this by 4pm. I look forward to your advice!

    Many Thanks

  9. #34
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    A witness statement does not replace the claim they submitted.

    Was the insurance in place at the time for several named drivers (or an any driver policy) ?

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email [email protected] if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  10. #35
    InnocentMotorist's Avatar

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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    A witness statement does not replace the claim they submitted.

    Was the insurance in place at the time for several named drivers (or an any driver policy) ?

    M1
    Interesting!

    The vehicle was insured in 3 persons names at the time of the claimed offence.
    *EDIT* I have the policy documentation that lists the additional drivers on the insurance. Should i list this in my statement?

  11. #36
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    The car has been parked on these premises on many occasions and on every occasion the driver has been given permission to do so with a ticket.
    Do we have any evidence of this at all ?

    The ticket was supplied by the land owner and titled 'Vehicle Control Services GUEST' and was displayed on the dashboard of the car.
    Ditto.

    At the time of the incident it's believed there were only 2 signs stating 'Primate property...Valid Permit holders...Parking charge £100'
    Ditto.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email [email protected] if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  12. #37
    InnocentMotorist's Avatar

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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    I have copies of the following tickets - http://imgur.com/h5XGMi2. However not a copy for the date of the claimed offence. The claimant has provided a photograph of the vehicles windscreen which does show a copy of this ticket but dated 9/12..(obscured from view)

    Insufficient signage:
    see the following album of images which prove the signage was changed between September 2014 and April 2015 - http://imgur.com/a/2VAoa
    *EDIT*
    Here is a photograph of the signage of which there were only two (road facing) visible to the driver - http://imgur.com/quQzd9H @mystery1

  13. #38
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    On behalf of: Defendant
    Witness: YOUR NAME
    No. of Witness Statement: First
    Exhibit: XX1
    Date: [DATE]


    IN THE [NAME] COUNTY COURT
    CLAIM NO:


    B E T W E E N




    CLAIMANTS NAME



    Claimant




    -and-








    YOUR NAME



    Defendant






    WITNESS STATEMENT OF [YOUR NAME]







    I, [FULL NAME] of [ADDRESS & POSTCODE] will state as follows:*

    1. I make this Witness Statement in support of an application to set aside the default judgment entered on [DATE].

    2. The facts and matters set out in this statement are within my own knowledge unless otherwise stated, and I believe them to be true. Where I refer to information supplied by others, the source of the information is identified; facts and matters derived from other sources are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

    3. I was the registered keeper of vehicle xxxxx on xx/xx/xx.

    4. I was not the driver. If you give a good reason for this (i was on holiday, in hospital etc etc then do so)

    5. I believe the vehicle was used by one of my family at the time.

    6. According to the Popla report of 2015 https://popla.co.uk/docs/default-sou...5.pdf?sfvrsn=2 Rather than link to it download it and file as an exhibit and give it a label Henry Michael Greenslade QC Lead Popla Adjudicator said

    "However keeper information is obtained, there is no ‘reasonable presumption’ in
    law that the registered keeper of a vehicle is the driver. Operators should never
    suggest anything of the sort. Further, a failure by the recipient of a notice issued
    under Schedule 4 to name the driver, does not of itself mean that the recipient
    has accepted that they were the driver at the material time. Unlike, for example,
    a Notice of Intended Prosecution where details of the driver of a vehicle must
    be supplied when requested by the police, pursuant to Section 172 of the Road
    Traffic Act 1988, a keeper sent a Schedule 4 notice has no legal obligation to
    name the driver. Any evidence in this regard may therefore be highly relevant."

    7. DDJ Gourley in VCS limited v Quayle, DJ SKALSKYJ-REYNOLDS in Excel parking services limited v Lameroux are amongst a number of county court decisions at small claims level where it was found that a company that does not utilise the protection of freedoms act can not reasonably presume the keeper was the driver, particularly when there is no evidence. Excel v Smith was decided on appeal in the same vein.

    8. The driver had a day permit on display as can be seen from the photgraph which appears to have been taken at an angle meant to obscure some information. This does not detract from the fact it was properly on display.






    Quick draft to start with.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email [email protected] if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  14. #39
    mystery1's Avatar

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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    On #5 add in that your insurance permits xyz to drive and the certificate is exhibit ....

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email [email protected] if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  15. #40
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    4. I was not the driver. If you give a good reason for this (i was on holiday, in hospital etc etc then do so)

    5. I believe the vehicle was used by one of my family at the time.

    M1
    What would the implications be if the defendant did not believe this to be true?

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    8. The driver had a day permit on display as can be seen from the photgraph which appears to have been taken at an angle meant to obscure some information. This does not detract from the fact it was properly on display.
    M1
    Here is the photograph of the ticket on the windscreen - http://i.imgur.com/1BqqiUf.png
    The date is obscured but does say '9/...' which is not the day of the claimed offence. Could the defendant claim that this was just one of many tickets on display at the time?

  16. #41
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Do not lie. My words are a guide. It must be true. If in doubt leave it out.

    M1

    - - - Updated - - -

    Was it the 9th ?

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email [email protected] if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  17. #42
    InnocentMotorist's Avatar

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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    Do not lie. My words are a guide. It must be true. If in doubt leave it out.

    M1

    - - - Updated - - -

    Was it the 9th ?

    M1
    I have removed sections 4 and 5. But i have left in reference to the insurance documents where it shows there were multiple insured drivers and that the claimant should prove the registered keeper was the driver on the day.

    The ticket states 9th but the offence was on the 4th

  18. #43
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    So how do they have a picture from the future ? (or was it from 9th the previous month ?)

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email [email protected] if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    So how do they have a picture from the future ? (or was it from 9th the previous month ?)

    M1
    From a previous month, yes.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Fair enough.

    Once you're happy finish it off with



    I believe that the facts in this witness statement are true.
    Signed:
    [YOUR NAME]
    Dated:

    Send to the court and them.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email [email protected] if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  21. #46
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Done. Thank you for your help. I hope it was all worth it, can't wait to be rid of these ****s.

    I will let you know the outcome on August 2nd

    Many thanks

    InnocentMotorist

  22. #47
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    Default Re: County Court Claim BW Legal - VCS Parking Charge Notice

    Quote Originally Posted by InnocentMotorist View Post
    Done. Thank you for your help. I hope it was all worth it, can't wait to be rid of these ****s.

    I will let you know the outcome on August 2nd

    Many thanks

    InnocentMotorist

    How did you get on?
    Not here a lot but you'll find me on Pepipoo.

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