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Thread: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

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    Unhappy CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Hi,
    Here are the details for my CCJ papers, Im certain its statute barred but no way of finding out. Please see below!
    Received a claim? CCJ
    Issue Date: 12/12/16 - I have already acknowledged it and extended it until 28days
    Amount approx: 3000
    Claimant: ME III limited
    Solicitor: Mortimer clark solicitors
    Original Creditor: Black horse finance (lloyds)
    Particulars of Claim: the claim is for the balance of instalments due and unpaid under an agreement dated 17/08/2009 and under which black horse ltd agreed to provide credit in relation to the purchase of goods payable by instalments ("the agreement"). The agreement was assigned to the claimant. Particulars : 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.97. The claimant therefore claims 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.97
    Is the debt Statute Barred? *** This is where Im stuck. This debt is no longer on my credit file, and Im pretty sure its statute barred but no way of finding out?***
    List any letters you have sent: None so far due to completely forgetting over Xmas. Im sure most of these offices are going to be closed over Xmas too.
    Any Other Info: This CCJ was sent to my mums address. They dont have my current address, Its lucky she still lives there or this would have gone unnoticed! I didnt pay this bill for very long due to change in curcumstances and could no longer afford, buried my head in the sand and didnt hear anything for years until this. Im pretty sure its statute barred but need help with how to find out? I need to also act very quickly as time was wasted over Xmas. But again, I doubt most offices will even be open until new year so now im worried I wont get the reply I need in time.
    Any help would be appreciated
    Thanks in advance

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Good morning, welcome to LB,

    Make a request to the claimant for a copy of the agreement (CCA request) there's a template for this in the green box at the top of the "court claim" forum. Use a £1 postal order marked "for statutory fee only" send by signed for post and check delivery date.

    Next:

    A request under the provisions of Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 for the documents mentioned in the particulars of claim i.e. The Agreement ,
    Notice Of Assignment send the to Mortimer Clarke ( They are just another part of the same group as ME111.

    Statute Barred: England & Wales 6 clear years no payment or written acknowledgment of the debt, When was this account actually defaulted. You could try call BH to see if they will tell you. However we can say with confidence it was more than 6 years as the account in no longer on CRA files.

    When did your payments cease?

    nem
    The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
    Please make your own decisions with care and if necessary seek qualified legal advice.
    I Prefer Not to Advise by Private Message If Specific Advice is Needed I will Respond on the open forum. If you are contacted (cold called) by anyone offering advice for a fee please report it to the site team. Animo et Fide





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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Doesnt one of the letters say that I expect reply within 12 working days? I dont have 12 working days to wait!? Also, If I call them up and ask when the account was defaulted, surely im resetting my 'no contact' date with them? I have no idea when I stopped making payments. My online banking doesnt go back that many years. If I ring up my bank and ask 'when was the last time I paid black horse?' Will they be able to simply search my bank statements that many years ago? This was back in 2009?
    How can I defend myself and say it was statued barred? Is there a letter for that?
    Thanks for your help

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Quote Originally Posted by CCJhelp View Post
    Doesnt one of the letters say that I expect reply within 12 working days? I dont have 12 working days to wait!? Also, If I call them up and ask when the account was defaulted, surely im resetting my 'no contact' date with them? I have no idea when I stopped making payments. My online banking doesnt go back that many years. If I ring up my bank and ask 'when was the last time I paid black horse?' Will they be able to simply search my bank statements that many years ago? This was back in 2009?
    How can I defend myself and say it was statued barred? Is there a letter for that?
    Thanks for your help
    The time scale is 12 +2 Working Days. You need to send the CCA request now, because if they cannot supply it the debt is rendered unenforceable.

    You then add this to your defence . " On date I sent a request for a copy of the agreement together with the £1.00 fee to xxxxx.

    " to date the claimant has not responded".

    nem
    The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
    Please make your own decisions with care and if necessary seek qualified legal advice.
    I Prefer Not to Advise by Private Message If Specific Advice is Needed I will Respond on the open forum. If you are contacted (cold called) by anyone offering advice for a fee please report it to the site team. Animo et Fide





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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Quote Originally Posted by CCJhelp View Post
    If I call them up and ask when the account was defaulted, surely im resetting my 'no contact' date with them? I have no idea when I stopped making payments. My online banking doesnt go back that many years. If I ring up my bank and ask 'when was the last time I paid '

    Don't ring the Claimant or their solicitors - everything needs to be in writing from now on.

    You need to send a Subject Access Request to the original creditor (not the Claimant) so you can see the full history of the account. The Transaction Log should confirm when any DN was sent (if one was sent) and when the last payment was received.

    However did you make any payments to any third party after the debt was sold such as through a DMP? Contacting your bank for confirmation is useful but that will only confirm when you last made a payment using that method.

    Once a claim has been issued the SB clock stops ticking. The claim is a 'cause of action'.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Quote Originally Posted by CCJhelp View Post
    Doesnt one of the letters say that I expect reply within 12 working days? I dont have 12 working days to wait!?
    You have 33 days from the claim Issue Date (shown on top right corner of claim form) to file your Defence.

    The Claimant has to meet the CCA Request deadline not you

    If they don't comply with your request in time then you will have another legal argument to add to your Defence.

    The Claimant has to prove their case not the other way round.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Quote Originally Posted by CCJhelp View Post
    This CCJ was sent to my mums address. They dont have my current address, Its lucky she still lives there or this would have gone unnoticed!
    You also need to decide whether you want the court and the Claimant to know where you really live or whether you are content for all paperwork to continue to go to your Mum's address.

    When you've made that decision make sure you use the correct (chosen by you) address on the CCA and CPR 31.14 Request letters, and also inform the court if there is to be a change of address.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Quote Originally Posted by CCJhelp View Post
    Original Creditor: Black horse finance (lloyds)
    Particulars of Claim: the claim is for the balance of instalments due and unpaid under an agreement dated 17/08/2009 and under which black horse ltd agreed to provide credit in relation to the purchase of goods payable by instalments ("the agreement").
    The POC suggest that this was a fixed term loan (i.e. not a credit card) which started in 2009.

    Can you you remember how long the loan would have been if it had continued until the expirey date regardless of when you stopped paying? This may impact on any SB argument and whether a DN was required to be served etc.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Thank you all for your comments.
    Right to begin with in order of questions, all payments were made to black horse themselves and all payments were through direct debit. I didnt make any payments to a debt collection agency. Im 100% sure of that.
    The letters addressed being at my mums isnt an issue, Ill just carry on with it being sent there.
    Also, the finance was for 3 years. Does this mean im wasting my time trying to see if its SB?
    If I cant claim its SB, can I make a payment plan to pay it off? I have no way of paying off £3000+, i feel really out of my depth here. How can i put in a defence for something I have no idea about?
    Ive been at work since 7.00am today so no chance to send any letters off today.
    So correct me if im wrong, my next step is to send a CCA request with a £1 postal order to the claimant, then a subject access request to black horse themselves? This is the same thing as CPR 31.14? Or do i need to send that as well?
    Sorry for the questions, i already feel like giving up with it. I really no nothing in this area.

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Any help? Im about to post the letters today. So clueless and really dont understand. What if I dont get a reply to my letters? Whats the next step after sending the letters? Do I actually have to go into court myself in person?

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    If it turns out its not SB, do you think theyll allow me to pay it off in installments?

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Try not to worry about the 'what ifs'

    If they don't respond to your requests then you will have the basis of a Defence.

    Send off those letters Recorded Delivery (make sure you include £1 postal order with the CCA Request) and then take things from there.

    Di
    I am a Litigation Executive at Joanna Connolly Solicitors a firm which specializes in consumer credit. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance or contact your local citizens advice bureau at https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    With my particulars of the claim being..........
    Particulars of Claim: the claim is for the balance of instalments due and unpaid under an agreement dated 17/08/2009 and under which black horse ltd agreed to provide credit in relation to the purchase of goods payable by instalments ("the agreement"). The agreement was assigned to the claimant. Particulars : 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.97. The claimant therefore claims 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.9
    What am i asking for in the CPR request? From what I understand, I can only ask for documents that they have mentioned in the POC? So all Im going to be asking for is the agreement? Can I ask for anything else? Due to send this off today. Ive been putting it off as its stressing me out. Doesnt help when Ive copied and pasted the templates into word and it keeps messing up when I try typing/saving. Ahhhh Please help so I can send these off today

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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Quote Originally Posted by CCJhelp View Post
    With my particulars of the claim being..........
    Particulars of Claim: the claim is for the balance of instalments due and unpaid under an agreement dated 17/08/2009 and under which black horse ltd agreed to provide credit in relation to the purchase of goods payable by instalments ("the agreement"). The agreement was assigned to the claimant. Particulars : 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.97. The claimant therefore claims 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.9
    What am i asking for in the CPR request? From what I understand, I can only ask for documents that they have mentioned in the POC? So all Im going to be asking for is the agreement? Can I ask for anything else? Due to send this off today. Ive been putting it off as its stressing me out. Doesnt help when Ive copied and pasted the templates into word and it keeps messing up when I try typing/saving. Ahhhh Please help so I can send these off today
    ##Good afternoon.
    You are correct only the documents mentioned in the POC can be requested via CPR 31 .14. so.

    The agreement.
    The Notice of Assignment.. via CPR.

    The CCA request is specific so the AGREEMENT + A CURRENT STATEMENT OF THE ACCOUNT ONLY. use a postal order for £1 marked " for statutory fee only" send both requests by signed for post.

    Check delivery dates.

    nem
    The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
    Please make your own decisions with care and if necessary seek qualified legal advice.
    I Prefer Not to Advise by Private Message If Specific Advice is Needed I will Respond on the open forum. If you are contacted (cold called) by anyone offering advice for a fee please report it to the site team. Animo et Fide





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    Default POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    Hi, Here are my POC, From my understanding, I need to ask for documents that are only mentioned in the POC. In my case I can only see the 'agreement' so is this all I have to ask for?

    Particulars of Claim: the claim is for the balance of instalments due and unpaid under an agreement dated 17/08/2009 and under which black horse ltd agreed to provide credit in relation to the purchase of goods payable by instalments ("the agreement"). The agreement was assigned to the claimant. Particulars : 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.97. The claimant therefore claims 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.97

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    Default Re: POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    Just the agreement correct. Makes me think they have nothing to hand.

    nem
    The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
    Please make your own decisions with care and if necessary seek qualified legal advice.
    I Prefer Not to Advise by Private Message If Specific Advice is Needed I will Respond on the open forum. If you are contacted (cold called) by anyone offering advice for a fee please report it to the site team. Animo et Fide





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    Default Re: CCJ papers for old debt 6 years+ #all info included#

    Thank you very much

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    Default Re: POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis45 View Post
    Just the agreement correct. Makes me think they have nothing to hand.

    nem
    Oh really, What else would you of been expecting for them to mention in the POC?

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    Default Re: POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    Hi

    CPR 31.14 request (see top of thread) to Claimant's solicitors
    Ask for
    a copy of the agreement (If it were me I'd also include the relevant Terms & Conditions)
    Notice of Assignment
    Breakdown of charges.

    If this is for a loan regulated via the Consumer Credit Act, you also should send a CCA request (top of thread) to the Claimant, together with a £1 fee.
    s77 CCA is applicable to loans.
    If £1 paid via postal order or cheque, endorse 'for statutory purposes only'.
    Enclose a copy of this with the above CPR letter to the solicitors 'for information only' (so no fee with this one)

    It is also a good idea to send a Data Protection Act SAR (Subject Access Request) to the original creditor. (Fee £10)

    Have you acknowledged the court claim yet?
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
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    Default Re: POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    Quote Originally Posted by CCJhelp View Post
    Oh really, What else would you of been expecting for them to mention in the POC?
    Most importantly a Default Notice.

    nem
    The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
    Please make your own decisions with care and if necessary seek qualified legal advice.
    I Prefer Not to Advise by Private Message If Specific Advice is Needed I will Respond on the open forum. If you are contacted (cold called) by anyone offering advice for a fee please report it to the site team. Animo et Fide





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    Default Re: POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    Hi

    CPR 31.14 request (see top of thread) to Claimant's solicitors
    Ask for
    a copy of the agreement (If it were me I'd also include the relevant Terms & Conditions)
    Notice of Assignment
    Breakdown of charges.

    If this is for a loan regulated via the Consumer Credit Act, you also should send a CCA request (top of thread) to the Claimant, together with a £1 fee.
    s77 CCA is applicable to loans.
    If £1 paid via postal order or cheque, endorse 'for statutory purposes only'.
    Enclose a copy of this with the above CPR letter to the solicitors 'for information only' (so no fee with this one)

    It is also a good idea to send a Data Protection Act SAR (Subject Access Request) to the original creditor. (Fee £10)

    Have you acknowledged the court claim yet?
    Thank you for your help, I have got the CCA and CPR ready to be sent off today now. I did originally post my thread in the welcome board rather than here, so here are the details that I opened the thread with.


    Hi,
    Here are the details for my CCJ papers, Im certain its statute barred but no way of finding out. Please see below!
    Received a claim? CCJ
    Issue Date: 12/12/16 - I have already acknowledged it and extended it until 28days
    Amount approx: 3000
    Claimant: ME III limited
    Solicitor: Mortimer clark solicitors
    Original Creditor: Black horse finance (lloyds)
    Particulars of Claim: the claim is for the balance of instalments due and unpaid under an agreement dated 17/08/2009 and under which black horse ltd agreed to provide credit in relation to the purchase of goods payable by instalments ("the agreement"). The agreement was assigned to the claimant. Particulars : 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.97. The claimant therefore claims 1. amount due and unpaid 3216.97
    Is the debt Statute Barred? *** This is where Im stuck. This debt is no longer on my credit file, and Im pretty sure its statute barred but no way of finding out?***
    List any letters you have sent: None so far due to completely forgetting over Xmas. Im sure most of these offices are going to be closed over Xmas too.
    Any Other Info: This CCJ was sent to my mums address. They dont have my current address, Its lucky she still lives there or this would have gone unnoticed! I didnt pay this bill for very long due to change in curcumstances and could no longer afford, buried my head in the sand and didnt hear anything for years until this. Im pretty sure its statute barred but need help with how to find out? I need to also act very quickly as time was wasted over Xmas. But again, I doubt most offices will even be open until new year so now im worried I wont get the reply I need in time.
    Any help would be appreciated
    Thanks in advance


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nemesis45 View Post
    Most importantly a Default Notice.

    nem
    Oh ok, So how does it affect me right now? Or do I just sit and wait and see if they reply to my letters?

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    Default Re: POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    A SAR to the original creditor would be a good idea, as it may provide the missing info, particularly re stat-barred.
    http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ur-information
    You probably won't receive a response before your defence is due, but regardless it would be wise to introduce the possibility of SB in your stated defence.
    CAVEAT LECTOR

    This is only my opinion - "
    Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
    Cohen, Herb

    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
    gets his brain a-going.
    Phelps, C. C.

    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
    The last words of John Sedgwick

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    Default Re: POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    A SAR to the original creditor would be a good idea, as it may provide the missing info, particularly re stat-barred.
    http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ur-information
    You probably won't receive a response before your defence is due, but regardless it would be wise to introduce the possibility of SB in your stated defence.
    Thank you, I have just printed this off and will also send this to Black horse

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    Default Re: POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    Quote Originally Posted by charitynjw View Post
    A SAR to the original creditor would be a good idea, as it may provide the missing info, particularly re stat-barred.
    http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ur-information
    You probably won't receive a response before your defence is due, but regardless it would be wise to introduce the possibility of SB in your stated defence.
    By sending this template, im not resetting the clock on the SB am i? just wanted to check before I send it?

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    Default Re: POC, What docs to ask for in CPR request?

    black horse ltd agreed to provide credit in relation to the purchase of goods payable by instalments
    What were the goods that you were paying in instalments? Was it a car or furniture / appliances or something else?

    And sending a SAR does not reset the clock.

    Edit: And have the goods been returned back to Blackhorse or are you still in possession of them?
    Any posts made by myself are intended as general guidance in relation to your rights and responsibilities, and does not constitute legal advice nor does it create any kind of relationship. No liability can be accepted for any losses, omissions or errors that may arise from your reliance on any advice, information or other matters published on this forum by me. Should you require legal advice, you can do so by using the Law Society's Find A Solicitor or contact your local Citizen's Advice Bureau.

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