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Thread: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

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    Default Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    Hi can any help me on this one or am in totally the wrong place any advice is urgently needed got a solicitors letter today about scaffolding being put in my garden

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act

    To clarify:
    This is scaffolding for a neighbouring property which encroaches on your land
    or:
    This is scaffolding on your property which encroaches on a neighbours land

    A good source of advice is here:

    Garden Law Discussion :: Index

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act

    Hi adamski and welcome to Beagles

    I think you will need to give a bit more info if possible,so that you can receive the advice you need.

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act

    Hi
    A local charity who are developers have bought the house and are turning it into flats which backs onto my garden i live in a terrraced house, the wall of the house is my garden wall as such.

    We objected to this and our objection was upheld and they launched an appeal and our objection was once again upheld, they then scaled down the plan and they got permisson.

    They now want to put scaffolding in our garden for 4 weeks and more to do the roof and repair the wall etc.

    We asked for compensation which we belivedwould be given to us under the neighbouring land act, and we asked for dates of work start and finish time what materials how many builders would come on our land times etc etc

    We had a meeting with the builders and asked for all this and they went back to charity and we then received a solictors letter this morning and it reads like this.

    We are instructed by ******* and understand that you are deliberately blocking progress to our clients' property at ****** *******. As you are aware ****** ****** is this countrys main umbrella charity surporting the racing industry and does exceptional work in assisting those in need. It is particulary disapointing therefore that you have taken this view over the erection of scaffolding for a few short weeks. We note, therefore that you would be prepared to cooperate subject to money being paid to you.

    We are instructed that there will be little if any interference to you while the work is being carried out to the roof which is essential repair work. The scaffold will essentially be at high level with two towers either side which will not impede your access. As you are aware our clients are prepared to clean up the rear wall and pay compensation if appropriate for any of the alleged water damage up to a maximum of £400 but they will need high level access and they will provide a asphalt's path to make it easier for you to move your bins but this is as far as they will be allowed to go at this stage. They are a Charity and as such have very strict rules governing payments.

    The purpose of this letter therefore is to put notice that unless we receive your consent in writing to the erection of a scaffold no later than 4pm on Tuedsay 17th June 2008 we are instructed to make an application to the County court pursuant to the access to neighbouring land act without further notice. We have to put you on notice that if ****** ******* is forced to make such an application then it will be obliged to seek costs and disimbursements of making that application from you. We would anticipate the costs of making that application could be in the region of £2,000 -£3,000
    We therefore await hearing from you as a matter of urgency.

    We have never asked for the path to be laid or the wall to be cleaned we are happy with it as it is. we do not use the path for our bins.

    We will be unable to let our children play in our garden we will be unable to use our garden in effect our garden will be a building site regardless of how high the work being carried out is, so it is major inconvienece to us.

    Any more info or advice greatly received I feel we may just have to give in as we have no money for solicitors.
    Last edited by adamski; 16th June 2008 at 05:43:AM.

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act

    I'm not sure I see the problem that you have. They have planning permission for these works and all they require from you is your permission to put some scaffold poles in your garden.

    There will be netting around the top level of scaffold to stop any objects falling so use of garden should not be affected.

    They have also said they will make good any repairs.

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act

    Hi thanks for the reply
    So my children can safely play in our garden then?

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act

    I'm not certain what compensation you will be due if any but I do know that they are only giving you a few days notice before threatening legal action. They should also have advised you to seek independent legal advice.

    So my gut instinct is that they are simply trying to scare you into agreeing.

    I would agree that having a scaffold at the bottom of your garden for several weeks will be very intrusive, even if it is at high level. How long is your garden, I'm imagining about 30'? So every time you or your kids enter the garden, you will be overlooked, at risk of materials and tools falling ...etc. Indeed when the scaffold is erected, they must agree to 'double net' it so that you can have a degree of privacy and your children won't be at risk of tools falling.

    Basically, they will eventually get the permission they seek. Though I seriously doubt that you would be at risk of costs against you if you raise objections to it. Summertime is after all the time we like to use our gardens most.

    If it was me.....I would probably offer a figure a bit higher than they are offering....say £600, get them to double net it and get it over with as soon as possible. Best of luck.

    By the way, I have a solicitor friend I can ask about this on Monday to see if he has any further recommendations.








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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act

    Thankyou so much, our garden is tiny 3m x 4m as we have an extension so I would not really like my 1 and half year old and six year old out there regardless of what safety measures there are all we want is compensation as we wont use our garden so I can take the kids out etc.

    The £400 they are onn about is for their gutter leaking onto our lawn and destroying a quarter of it not compensation for the inconvience, they just want to put some turf on the damaged bits which means we will have to replace the rest at our cost.
    Last edited by adamski; 14th June 2008 at 14:12:PM.

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act

    we asked for dates of work start and finish time what materials how many builders would come on our land times etc etc

    We had a meeting with the builders and asked for all this and they went back to charity
    I would write to them pointing out the above and that you have had no reply and that their client has refused to give written assurances on these points. That you welcome their application to the court, since at the present moment, this seems to be the only way of achieving this and given their clients refusal to give these asurances, it is doubtful whether a court would award costs

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act

    We have had a builders letter all it says is that work will commence on day 1 and subject to no rain it would last for no more than 14 working days, it also states that the scaffolding would rest on two towers located at either end of the row of terrace houses there are 4.
    There will be no restriction to our access
    Al precautions will be taken to ensure that no tiles or roofing matrials could fall in our garden and they will errect privacy screens above wroking level.
    No dates, that to us is not enough information

    Our garden space is 15ft by 13ft
    Last edited by adamski; 14th June 2008 at 15:15:PM.

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    Thread moved to the Property Forum

    and Welcome to the Forum Adamski

    PKea

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    Anyone else have any advice on this please

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    it
    also states that the scaffolding would rest on two towers located at either end of the row of terrace houses there are 4.
    Do I take it this affects your neighbours too? What's their reaction, have they agreed to allow access?

    The most important thing is to list things you require them to adhere to:
    Start and finish dates, netting and privacy screens, prior notice of anyone accessing your land, hours of work, no work at weekends etc

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    I can see the problem ( I can't help tho sorry) I had the council do some work on my neighbours house which involved replacing their roof. They had no safety netting, it was summer and the one time i was brave enough to sit out side as I didnt like to go out with a bunch of workmen look down on me one of them dropped a long wooden stick which luckily landed on the parasol under which I was sitting. Its annoying, ruins the use of your garden for the time, and no I wouldnt let the kids play out while they were working either. So I completely understand and think you should carry on as Micheal has suggested and ensure the hours will be limited and the safety and privacy screens are adequate. Oh yes and as someone else suggested have a word with the other neighbours see what they think/are doing etc. Not stirring anything up just see if they have similar issues if you could join together to ensure correct precautions and consideration are offered by the charity. (which I think is a pretty low blow and going for the guilt complex bit on their letter)

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    I would be tempted to get in a clause for compensation if their works run over the agreed timescale,
    as I am damn sure that's they will have in place against their contractors/builders

    hers the Act Anyway, best have a read see what there is we can advise
    Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992 (c. 23)

    An Act to enable persons who desire to carry out works to any land which are reasonably necessary for the preservation of that land to obtain access to neighbouring land in order to do so; and for purposes connected therewith.

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    The court shall not make an access order in any case where it is satisfied that, were it to make such an order— (a) the respondent or any other person would suffer interference with, or disturbance of, his use or enjoyment of the servient land, or
    (b) the respondent, or any other person (whether of full age or capacity or not) in occupation of the whole or any part of the servient land, would suffer hardship,
    to such a degree by reason of the entry (notwithstanding any requirement of this Act or any term or condition that may be imposed under it) that it would be unreasonable to make the order.
    An access order may impose upon the applicant or the respondent such terms and conditions as appear to the court to be reasonably necessary for the purpose of avoiding or restricting— (a) any loss, damage, or injury which might otherwise be caused to the respondent or any other person by reason of the entry authorised by the order; or
    (b) any inconvenience or loss of privacy that might otherwise be so caused to the respondent or any other person.
    Only having had a brief read of the act, it may be better for it to go to court, then everything will be outlined, ie access, working hours

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    The neighbours are all in this with us already! I think the main concern at the moment is that they have threatened to seek their costs from us if it goes to court - £2000 - £3000. Is that right that they can do that even if we were to be awarded something from the judge? We just want proper terms and for them to appreciate what we will be losing during the term they are there.

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    I also think the fact that they have had planning refused as well as an appeal may be in your favour.

    I also tend to agree with Cel as it is intimadatory tactics, which you coudl just throw back at them.
    ie charity uses heavy hand tactics and threats to local residents through its solicitors etc
    I would contact your local councillor(as they prob refused planning) and MP to get behind your case

    sorry not had chance to read through the full act yet

    PKea

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    HI
    Thanks for all you replys.
    PKea, when you have read through the act will you be able to advise more, and what are the chances of them winning the costs against us

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    Hi Also
    about the costs, we are a young couple with two small children we both work and have a large mortgage, these costs could involve us losing our house, alsoour next door neighbour is a single mum who works from home and the lady who lives next to her is an 84 year registered disabled chronic asthmatic, would the judge not have sympathy with us and not award costs against us?

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    Here is a letter we have drafted in reply any comments and help are really really welcome
    Dear
    Thank you for your recent letter dated 13th June.
    We note your comments that we are deliberately blocking progress to your client’s property at **********, it seems you have either been misinformed or not made fully aware of the circumstances.
    Firstly, I do not understand your point regarding the statement of ******* work in the Community and what this has to do with the matter at hand? We appreciate what ********* stands for but this is not the issue.
    We would not say that we are deliberately blocking progress. We are just seeking to agree proper terms in order to protect the well being of our family and our property before we allow access. We fully appreciate that the work needs to be done and in doing so they will need to gain access through our land. We are simply yet to seek a compromise between the parties involved.
    Our garden space is 15ft by 13ft so having scaffolding works no matter how high above ground level or with screening will be highly intrusive to us and our children. We understand that it will cover around a third of our garden. We cannot allow our children to play outside during what will probably be some of the most pleasant weather we will have. While I understand there will be protection against falling debris, there will surely always be an element of that risk. I feel sure that given the size of our garden, there may even be rules regarding the wearing of hard hats so close to the scaffold? As per THE CONSTRUCTION (HEAD PROTECTION) REGULATIONS 1989. There will also be dust which will not only affect us but Mrs***** who resides at number 16 as she is 84 years old registered disabled and a chronic asthmatic. Mr **** works night and so may be disrupted by the noise of the works while he is trying to sleep. Mrs ***** (no.14) also has a child 10 years old and works from home. In order to appreciate our opinion we would welcome you to come to our gardens to see for yourself.
    We have never asked for the wall to be cleaned in fact in correspondence from ******* and in meetings we were informed that the wall would be rendered and painted. We have merely asked for proper terms, timescales and information of the work to be carried out not only on the roof but for any other works that may also require them to access our property in order to do so and a compensatory payment to be made for inconvenience and restricted use of our property while the work is carried out. Can you clarify if there is a governing Charity policy that would restrict ******** from making such a payment, or is that their policy alone?
    The water damage that you mention is not alleged it is a fact as we have a letter from Mr ***** Head of Housing dated 4th December 2007 stating that an area of our lawn has suffered as a result of the leaking gutter on ********, in an earlier letter dated 16th November 2007 from Mr ***** it states that the gutter has now been repaired, I would like to say that this gutter was only cleared of debris 2 weeks ago, so there is some obvious confusion here that needs clarifying, although we recognise that this is again a problem it is not the issue here.
    The letter we received from Mr ****** does not address any of the terms we required and the letter we received from ******* Builders falls short of what we have requested.
    We feel that costs should not be awarded against us as we would raise objections and that the terms we have asked for have not been complied with.
    If your client’s feel it is necessary to try to obtain costs from a couple with two small children, a single mother and an 84 year old disabled pensioner then we would find this very disappointing considering your client’s ethics as a charity and would ask a judge to take this into consideration.
    We feel that under 2 working days notice to respond to the threats in your letter are not sufficient enough and we ask that you allow us to seek legal advice and until we have we would kindly ask you and your clients to give us at least 7 days before commencing any action that you see fit.
    Yours faithfully

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    I think that sounds very fair and reasonable. It addresses all the points in their horrid letter which is just designed to intimidate you, and its very polite.

    I don't know about the head protection regulations bit other than that I think its grand.



    mmmm yes does apply just to employees....will be some seperate liability insurancey type thing I guess covering public risk.

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    Personally, I'd tell them that if they did finally get their way, you'd make sure the media got the story about how a charity with a £multi-million turnover has bullied and threatened you into submission.

    Is this the horse racing industry we're talking about? Ex-racehorses or ex-jockeys?

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    yes it is ex-jockeys, housing, grants etc, an arm of the Jockey Club they are very very rich I would say multi Billon pound but the charity in question will deny they are anything to do with them.

    I work for the media but I really do not want a war just to come to a mutual agreement.
    We wish they would explain to us why they cannot compensate us all they say in vague letters is either they are legally unable to, or there are strict rules on them making payments, does anyone know what these legalities are or rules concerning charities?
    -------------------------- merged -----------------------------
    we went to see dolly the 84 year old and she wants us to deal with it and is right behind, we are yet to speak to our next door neighbour, we are all on excellent terms and get on well, our son play with her son etc, they have all we think received a similar generic letter we know dolly has anyway we have been in this together since the planning stage and my wife and the two neigbours and went to the council meeting to see it rejected so we think the head of the charity who was very very cross about us objecting has it in for us and is not cooperating through principle
    Last edited by adamski; 16th June 2008 at 05:15:AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Default Re: Access to neighbouring land act re: scaffolding

    I know there are rules about charities and their making donations of their own, and spending unrelated to their activities.

    But I really can't see the problem here... they will have budgeted for the purchase and renovation of this property. And I would say that any compensation that they may be obligated to pay out would be part of that budget. So quite how they can justify what they are saying seems a little hard to understand to me.

    Having said that, it is a charity I support. On the basis that the horse racing industry is, as you say, a multi billion pound industry, and yet so many of those who work in racing are treated appallingly. Unless you are a top jockey, it really is a labour of love. And if you are retired out because of injury, you are literally on the scrapheap.

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