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Thread: Premier Parking PCN

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  1. #1
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    Default Premier Parking PCN

    I received a 'PCN' from Premier Parking after the driver used a car park in N London despite having paid, displayed and not overstayed.
    Their notice claims 'unpaid or parking expired' and has two still images of the vehicle entering and leaving the car park.
    They appealed to PP but this was declined.
    Unfortunately the driver doesn't have the original pay and display ticket. They were with a colleague at the time who can corroborate their version of events.
    It's possible they could have entered the wrong registration on the ticket machine although this would seem to be an honest error.
    Is it worth appealing to POPLA or should I just pay up the £60?
    Last edited by Kati; 23rd September 2016 at 15:22:PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Post up the pcn and appeal used, suitably sanitised.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

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    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Hello Mystery1, attached is the 'PCN' and below is the text of my appeal.
    Thank you for your time and trouble.
    Hallam.



    Your Appeal - Please include any supporting information:*: You issued me with a parking charge notice regarding parking on 2nd August at Bernie Grant Arts Centre, Tottenham, N. London. (‘parking session expired or unpaid’). I believe it was unfairly issued and will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reason:
    I did pay for parking at Bernie Grant Arts Centre on 2nd August. I paid
    £1.30 for one hours parking, I displayed the ticket in the vehicle windscreen and did not overstay the one hour period.
    I was working at the Arts Centre and was accompanied by a colleague who can corroborate my story.
    I note that your charge notice does not include an image of the vehicle parked in a bay and failing to display a valid ticket
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hallam_PCN.jpg  

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    It's a pity you let the identity of the driver out of the bag as you'd have won at popla for sure.

    Now going to popla is not certain although the odds are good, however the discounted amount will never be offered again.

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Premier_Park.html If you lose at popla and do not pay then the chances of court action are minute at the moment with around 22 cases out of 65000+ tickets issued going to court since 2014.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    It's a pity you let the identity of the driver out of the bag as you'd have won at popla for sure.

    Now going to popla is not certain although the odds are good, however the discounted amount will never be offered again.

    http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Premier_Park.html If you lose at popla and do not pay then the chances of court action are minute at the moment with around 22 cases out of 65000+ tickets issued going to court since 2014.

    M1
    I was reluctant to 'out' myself but the leasing company who run our fleet were unhelpful and simply passed on PP's demands without advice. I now understand that under data protection law I could have remained incognito. Nevertheless I'm puzzled as to how the driver's identity should matter, surely they would have conducted the same claim only with the leasing company ( as registered keeper ) their target?
    Anyhow thanks M1, I think I may swallow my indignation and cough up the £60.
    Hallam.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    The lease company had no idea who was driving. They knew who leased the car (the keeper as opposed to the registered keeper).

    It matters because there are statutory provisions in play which must be adhered to strictly to hold a keeper liable whereas with a driver it's a simple matter of contract law and that's a broader brush approach and a simple misstated time frame wouldn't matter a toss.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted

    (f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given


    (4)The notice must be given by—


    (a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or


    (b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.


    (5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.


    (6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.








    When it comes to hire/lease vehicles the requirements are even stricter (for keeper liability) as they need to send extra paperwork to you as well and not once have i ever heard this requirement has been complied with.






    Having said all that, popla still has good odds and even if you lose it's unlikely they'd go to court. Your call though.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    The lease company had no idea who was driving. They knew who leased the car (the keeper as opposed to the registered keeper).

    It matters because there are statutory provisions in play which must be adhered to strictly to hold a keeper liable whereas with a driver it's a simple matter of contract law and that's a broader brush approach and a simple misstated time frame wouldn't matter a toss.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...dule/4/enacted

    (f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given


    (4)The notice must be given by—


    (a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or


    (b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.


    (5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.


    (6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.








    When it comes to hire/lease vehicles the requirements are even stricter (for keeper liability) as they need to send extra paperwork to you as well and not once have i ever heard this requirement has been complied with.






    Having said all that, popla still has good odds and even if you lose it's unlikely they'd go to court. Your call though.

    M1

    The chain of events was thus. The registered keeper ( leasing company) forwarded the PCN to the keeper ( my line manager ) who disclosed my identity to the registered keeper who then passed on the charge notice to me.
    I then called the registered keeper and was told the fine would be deducted from my salary plus a £20 handling fee unless I wished to personally take liability for the challenge. I should add that we are obliged to sign an annual 'driver declaration agreement' which gives assent to this deduction from salary.
    In hindsight I can see the virtue of remaining invisible.
    Should I go to POPLA I will update the post on my progress.
    Thanks again M1,
    Hallam.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Ah, pretty much the only situation where you have to name the driver, still sucks though.

    Should you decide to try popla let me know so we can put in an appeal that might win

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Quote Originally Posted by mystery1 View Post
    Ah, pretty much the only situation where you have to name the driver, still sucks though.

    Should you decide to try popla let me know so we can put in an appeal that might win

    M1
    I plan to appeal to POPLA and propose the following text. Any editorial comment would be greatly appreciated:

    I believe this 'parking charge notice' has been unfairly issued, I have appealed to the issuing party who have declined the appeal but have not provided
    any information other than that in the original charge notice ( 'parking unpaid or expired' ).
    The parking was paid for and the vehicle left before the ticket expired.
    The vehicle was parked between approximately 14:30 and 15:15 hours on August 2nd in the Bernie Grant Arts Centre car park, N. London
    and was parked appropriately in its bay.
    A cash ticket to the value of £1.30 was paid for at the time of entry, the registration details were entered and it was displayed in the windscreen.( Parking is £1/hour in this car park ).
    If the image of the vehicle leaving the car park is closely scrutinized you can see the ticket still attached to the nearside interior of the windscreen.
    I was accompanied by a colleague who is happy to be contacted and can corroborate this version of events. His name is ******* and contact e-mail is ******
    I have a clear recollection of the details of that day's parking together with a contemporaneous entry in my work diary.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Don't do that. Bump up your thread on Monday and i'll sort something out.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    OK M1 will do, my 14 day grace period of paying the reduced rate expires 0n 6th Oct so no rush.
    Thanks, Hallam.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    If you go to popla the discount period disappears no matter what date it is.

    The only date that matters is the popla expiry http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla-code-checker/

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Perhaps if my chances on appeal are slim I should pay up while it's still £60.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Quote Originally Posted by hallam View Post
    Perhaps if my chances on appeal are slim I should pay up while it's still £60.

    I assume you mean this company as that website is for them. http://www.bmpa.eu/companydata/Premier_Park.html Note the low court claim totals.

    Should you go to popla edit to suit. (i left keeper liability in there in case they don't take the huge hint you gave them) Hallampopla.rtf

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co...a-process.html

    Choice is yours.

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Thanks again for your time and trouble M1. That's a formidable barrage of legal jargon.
    Percentage-wise, any idea of the likelyhood of success with a POPLA appeal?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Premier Parking PCN

    Don't think i've done one for premier without keeper liability.

    Probably 70%+

    M1
    ********************************Signature********* ************************

    Private messages are off as all help on this site is on board.

    Please note i am now pretty much without access/time to help 5 days a week. Others will hopefully help you.


    I can only help with what you tell me. Post up information (other than names and addresses!).

    I NEVER enter any appeals or court documentation on your behalf. This is your responsibility.

    Upload images to your thread like this .Email kati@legalbeagles.info if you can't upload images/documents. She doesn't own a crystal ball as far as i'm aware so link to your thread or tell her how to find it !

    If you want to tell someone YOU were driving, go to confession.

    I,I,I,I,I,I should be avoided unless you are Jim Diamond.

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