CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

HI everyone,

Just to let you know I will be posting yet another original contract from Halifax that arrived in todays post.

This now makes 3 original contracts, However, I think this one, although just printed off from a computer, with my name and address at the top - but that is all.

Question is in the T&C's of this one under the heading


23 . ASSIGNMENT it states 2 clauses.

23/1. You (or the authorised user) must not transfer any part of this agreement (or any of your rights under it) to anyone else, unless we agree.


23/2. We may transfer any amounts which you owe us under this agreement (including interest and charges) to our subsidiary, Halifax Credit Card Limited whose registered office is at Trinity Road, Halifax, West Yorkshire, HX1 2RG. If we do, these conditions will still apply.


That's it about assignments on todays original contract.

Does that mean they cannot transfer it to anyone else? Like a DCA?

Of course it goes on to say "we can make any changes to this agreement or its condition at any time we like." - my words not theirs.
But that statement gives them Carte Blanche to rip it up and give you any old agreement.

Does anyone know the law on making changes to a CCA?
Some changes are to be expected technology, for example, will change the way in which the agreement works and needs to be amended. So what changes can they make and what can't they change?

sidley

PS will scan and post todays offering during today.

[nemesis45]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Hello Sidley, responding to your PM

Somewhere in all these seemingly unconnected bits of paper there will be a clause regarding the assignment of rights /interests to a 3rd party.

nem

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

I have scan it (reading) and can find no other reference to assigning rights to a 3rd party!

No mention in any other parts of the agreement or T&Cs

sidley

[Diana M]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Your PM to me has bounced since my Inbox was full. I've had a declutter if you want to try again

However I'm not able to advise on the potential 'unenforceability' of redacted credit agreements if that's what you were seeking.

You say both Halifax and Cabot claim to own this account. What makes you think that?

Di

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Hello Diana,

In the letter from Cabot is says (on the right hand side in boxes) that the "original lender" was Royal Bank of Scotland. The "new creditor" is Marlin V . When Wescot wrote to me it says they were acting as RBS agent. I have had no notice of assignment, but their letter implies that Marlin V no own it.

Many thanks

sidley

[Diana M]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

In the letter from Cabot is says (on the right hand side in boxes) that the "original lender" was Royal Bank of Scotland. The "new creditor" is Marlin V . When Wescot wrote to me it says they were acting as RBS agent. I have had no notice of assignment, but their letter implies that Marlin V no own it.

Cabot own Marlin

Di

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Cabot own Marlin

Di

Right I see. But when they say 'New Creditor' does that not imply ownership?

sidley

[charitynjw]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Does anyone know the law on making changes to a CCA?

s82?

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Thanks Charity for that. I think I will print it out and read it, cos' my eyes are sore from reading the jargon on screen.

sidley

[Kirjava]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Hi Sidley,

Sorry for the late reply, I only saw all these notifications when I logged back on. It looks like Nemesis and Diana M have advised you much more proficiently than I could have though!

I agree with Nem's statements above regarding the alleged reconstituted agreements, I can't see anywhere where they have provided the details necessary for this to be considered a 'true copy'.

Am I correct in thinking that you still want to raise this as a formal complaint with them? If so what is the end goal that you want to achieve from that? As in, are you looking for this debt to considered unenforceable or time barred or something else? Also, as a matter of interest... was this original agreement taken out in England or Scotland?

Regards,

Kirjava

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Hello Kirjava,

Thanks for your input, greatly appreciated. After discussing it here, I think I will wait to see what happens before I make any complaint.

The agreement was taken out in Wales (so, English law).

The reason for mentioning formal complaint was because 2 companies were chasing the same account. I think I've worked it out with help from here, that Halifax have not sold it, but have enlisted the nasties from Cabot!

The bit that was confusing for me was in Cabot's letter, they state "Old Creditor" and "New Creditor". Old = Halifax, New= Marlin V.
I believed, because it said New Creditor, that meant it had been sold. Cabot were very careful in their wording by just saying " our client" that lead me to believe that is was Marlin V, not Halifax.

I Have not received a NoA so, it looks as though Halifax still own it as their most recent letters would suggest.

I CCA'd Cabot 14/11/16 no reply so far!

Lastly, the weaker their case is the smaller amount I'm going to offer in F&F settlement.

Thanks again

sidley

[sidley]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Have they shot themselves in the foot?

Firstly, we would like to thank everyone at LB for all their selfless help and advice, I know it can't be easy to deal with people who have never been in this situation before and are madly panicking about it. My wife says that she would like to send a million 'hugs & Kisses' to all those at LB. (NB they are chasing my wife for this, but due to her arthritis in her hands she can no longer type).

Anyway, back to the response from Cabot after their investigation they sent my wife a 4 page document; 3 pages of which I've had already. I have posted a section "My Investigation" which implies that they, after consulting with Halifax, cannot find the original application form and have sent a reconstituted original application form from when the account numbers changed! Together with the T&C's from the date of the change.

Confusing, because we took out a credit card when we were in Yorkshire between 1988 -1991. Hence the title of this thread. When we threatened them for non compliance of numerous CCA requests with the FoS, this is when we finally got this badly photocopied application form dated 1997. Neither my wife (who was the main applicant) and myself can ever remember filling one out, especially when on the application form it stated our small towns own branch. Our small town only has had HSBC(gone), NatWest(also gone) and Barclays(still here).

Considering the alleged recon. application form has been completed by hand (not our hand writing) together with our signatures (look genuine) does this mean they have forged a document? In Halifax's letter they stated this was the original application form.

Has anyone got any ideas?

Thanks again

confused sidley

PS I have also attached the redacted "recontituted application form"

[MIKE770]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

ouch? cricked me neck upside down

[Amethyst]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

lol, Mike, you should be able to right click on the open PDF doc and click ROTATE clockwise ... rather than pulll a muscle.

[Amethyst]

Re: CCA request for card taken out in late 1980's

Is the date of Halifax's signature the same date as your signatures ?

Wondering if you might have completed this in a branch with the teller writing it and you just signing it? Just as the ID stuff says 'offered' by it that might indicate an in branch conversation?

Where abouts does it mention your towns branch ?

Bit weird they refer to it as reconstituted but then put the signatures on and fail to supply ANY terms. It isn't compliant as it is, even if genuine.

Ahhh

Together with the T&C's from the date of the change.

are they the full terms including all the rates of interest, default, cancellation etc information ?

took out a credit card when we were in Yorkshire between 1988 -1991.

Had you moved before the date of the signatures on this app ?

I can't see why you'd complete a new application - unless you'd paid/settled the first card and took out a new one.