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Thread: Sold my car but no payment received

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    Atstudycloud's Avatar

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    Default Sold my car but no payment received

    I put my car up for sale. 2 Hungarian women come to see the car and purchase on the spot. They take me to thier house and do the transfer using transfer wise from thier account in Hungary to my uk account. A message appears that the money will come into my account in 2 days. We do the paperwork of the v5c doc inn and she gets her insurance and road tax done in front of me. I foolishly give her the keys too. It's been 5 days and no money. When I phoned her first she said there has been a delay. Now she does not even pick my phone up. I've gone to her house and she does not open the door. I have phone the police who say it is a civil issue. Any advice please would be great on how to get the car back or get my money?

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    Snoopy1948's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    Yes, you have been foolish but probably through the goodness of your heart. I guess many of us have taken a similar chance and then taken a deep gulp of air while we wait to be paid. From my point of view, these buyers have no contract with you as no payment has been received and certainly not within the agreed two days.

    Can I ask the agreed price please? I am wondering as you have already executed the V5 whether that constitutes a legal transfer? And it's hardly theft as you gave possession on a voluntary basis. However, if they took the car with the intention of depriving you of the money, I believe that may be theft although proving it is another thing.

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    Atstudycloud's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    £6500

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    des8's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy1948 View Post
    Yes, you have been foolish but probably through the goodness of your heart. I guess many of us have taken a similar chance and then taken a deep gulp of air while we wait to be paid. From my point of view, these buyers have no contract with you as no payment has been received and certainly not within the agreed two days.

    Can I ask the agreed price please? I am wondering as you have already executed the V5 whether that constitutes a legal transfer? And it's hardly theft as you gave possession on a voluntary basis. However, if they took the car with the intention of depriving you of the money, I believe that may be theft although proving it is another thing.

    Do you not think this is more likely an offence under Fraud Act 2006 Sec 2 Fraud by misrepresentation in that they were misrepresenting a payment being made by transfer? As such it isn't just a civil matter.
    Try reporting it to Actionfraud and see what they say: http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/rep...report-a-fraud

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    Atstudycloud's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    Thanks for the replies

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    CLL1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy1948 View Post
    Yes, you have been foolish but probably through the goodness of your heart. I guess many of us have taken a similar chance and then taken a deep gulp of air while we wait to be paid. From my point of view, these buyers have no contract with you as no payment has been received and certainly not within the agreed two days.

    Can I ask the agreed price please? I am wondering as you have already executed the V5 whether that constitutes a legal transfer? And it's hardly theft as you gave possession on a voluntary basis. However, if they took the car with the intention of depriving you of the money, I believe that may be theft although proving it is another thing.
    That doesn't mean there isn't a contract.

    The consideration is the promise to pay, and the promise to transfer the vehicle. The OP transferred the vehicle, and is therefore at liberty to enforce the contract (i.e. sue for the monetary amount due).

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    Snoopy1948's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    Quote Originally Posted by CLL1 View Post
    That doesn't mean there isn't a contract.

    The consideration is the promise to pay, and the promise to transfer the vehicle. The OP transferred the vehicle, and is therefore at liberty to enforce the contract (i.e. sue for the monetary amount due).
    Accepted. Interestingly enough, when I was in financial services, we were told that a life assurance contract is not binding until the customer pays the first premium. Would 'a consideration' be acceptable in law i.e. if the insured party died immediately after signing the proposal and before any premium had been paid? And can you imagine any car dealership allowing a car with a price tag of £6500 to be driven away on the sole consideration of a promise to pay?

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    des8's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    basically "no" because signing a proposal is not an indication that it has been accepted by the assurers.
    The policy will not afford cover until the policy is issued showing an inception date, and when issued will probably state something like "in return for payment of premium we will pay...."
    So no premium paid.. no cover.

    At least that is how I remember from my ACII exams nearly 50 years ago!

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    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Yes there is a contract and you could sue the women for the money,or return of the vehicle(although you run into the V5 problems there). However using transferwise COULD indicate a scam (we've seen it used a fair bit in the ebay/gumtree car scams) - do these women still have possession of the car ? ( have you seen it at their address?) Are they actually still at that address? It would be unusual for them to take you to their house etc - but then that could also be a confidence inducement.

    Also what did you actually see when they did the transfer ? do you have any documentation / emails / pending payment showing on your bank account etc ? Any account details at all ?

    Insurance / Tax ? WHow did she sort that out in front of you? exactly.

    If the women aren't at that address, the car is no where to be seen then it's most likely you've just been scammed and they have stolen your car. In which case the police should treat it as a criminal matter. Also report to DVLA. But lets get the facts first.

    Also 5 days ago ? Thursday ? Could just be held up with transferwise .... with the weekend in between - just looking back at an old case where the payment was made on 18th Dec and still hadn't been processed by 24th Dec. They do state transfers take 1 to 4 working days.

    Just covering all options.

    Have you spoken to transfer wise - if you have the account number/ transaction ID etc they might be able to tell you if the payment is on its way or has been cancelled etc - they might be abel to check using your ( recipient ) account details . ( 0203 6950 999 )
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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    Snoopy1948's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    Yes there is a contract and you could sue the women for the money,or return of the vehicle(although you run into the V5 problems there). However using transferwise COULD indicate a scam (we've seen it used a fair bit in the ebay/gumtree car scams) - do these women still have possession of the car ? ( have you seen it at their address?) Are they actually still at that address? It would be unusual for them to take you to their house etc - but then that could also be a confidence inducement.

    Also what did you actually see when they did the transfer ? do you have any documentation / emails / pending payment showing on your bank account etc ? Any account details at all ?

    Insurance / Tax ? WHow did she sort that out in front of you? exactly.

    If the women aren't at that address, the car is no where to be seen then it's most likely you've just been scammed and they have stolen your car. In which case the police should treat it as a criminal matter. Also report to DVLA. But lets get the facts first.

    Also 5 days ago ? Thursday ? Could just be held up with transferwise .... with the weekend in between - just looking back at an old case where the payment was made on 18th Dec and still hadn't been processed by 24th Dec. They do state transfers take 1 to 4 working days.

    Just covering all options.

    Have you spoken to transfer wise - if you have the account number/ transaction ID etc they might be able to tell you if the payment is on its way or has been cancelled etc - they might be abel to check using your ( recipient ) account details . ( 0203 6950 999 )
    An excellent and practical assessment of this difficult situation, expressed in plain English that so many responses lack.

  11. #11
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    Thanks Snoopy - although when I read it back it just sounds like a bit of an inane ramble. lol.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

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    CLL1's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy1948 View Post
    Accepted. Interestingly enough, when I was in financial services, we were told that a life assurance contract is not binding until the customer pays the first premium. Would 'a consideration' be acceptable in law i.e. if the insured party died immediately after signing the proposal and before any premium had been paid? And can you imagine any car dealership allowing a car with a price tag of £6500 to be driven away on the sole consideration of a promise to pay?
    1) It depends what the contract says.

    2) No, that would be silly, but it is still the case that there remains a contract, it's just simpler (and common place) to take payment first.

  13. #13
    elbmek's Avatar

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    Default Re: Sold my car but no payment received

    no money, no keys. Since when has theft of a car been a 'civil issue' ??
    Darkness is only the absence of light; ignorance is only the absence of knowledge.

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