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Thread: Estate sign off and distribution

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  1. #26
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    Default Re: Estate paid into court for distribution

    Are you asking how much is it to apply for probate to be granted?

    It is £215 all details how to apply etc HERE


    ​​​​

    https://www.carersuk.org/

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Estate paid into court for distribution

    No, the estate is ready to be distributed but executrix is not paying out. I thought I could apply to have the estate paid into the probate court so they can distribute it. I just wondered if there was a set fee for that sort of thing or if it could turn into a solicitor battle to get to that point. Hence possibly costing an awful lot of money.
    thanks.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Estate paid into court for distribution

    This obviously follows on from your earlier thread.
    Your next step is to apply to the court for an order that she produces an inventory and an account of her dealings with the estate.

    If that doesn't bring her to her senses you may have to apply for her removal, and that can prove expensive.

    Why do you think it is possible to apply for the assets to be paid into court for distribution?

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Estate paid into court for distribution

    Thanks again Des 8. Sorry, I obviously misunderstood. I was referring to part of you're response in reply #6 on my other thread, where you mentioned -
    If she continues to refuse to distribute the assets, you could make application for a court to order the distribution.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Estate paid into court for distribution

    Quote Originally Posted by des8 View Post
    This obviously follows on from your earlier thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by crustypants View Post
    Thanks again Des 8. Sorry, I obviously misunderstood. I was referring to part of you're response in reply #6 on my other thread, where you mentioned -
    If she continues to refuse to distribute the assets, you could make application for a court to order the distribution.
    Threads merged so there's less confusion xx

    - - - Updated - - -

    Des ... I believe it was this comment they are asking about
    Quote Originally Posted by des8 View Post
    If she continues to refuse to distribute the assets, you could make application for a court to order the distribution.
    xx
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  6. #31
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    First you apply to the court that she produces an inventory and accounts for her actions

    Applying to the court for an order would, in the uk, probably set a precedent. The earlier comment I made I have just realised was following a Canadian court decision (sorry)
    It would have to be in the High Court and cost

    However, remember that probate was only granted back in February (I've just flipped back through the thread!) and, although your father passed away 8 years ago, the executor normally has upto 12 months after probate is granted before action is taken against them.
    So although you are feeling frusrated, you might find it difficult processing this.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    HI, an update to this is that the estate still hasn't been settled. In the will there is a £6000 inheritance due to my son to be put in trust until he is 21. The executrix solicitor told me that under section 32 of the trustee act 1925, I can take upto half of it for immediate use to benefit my son. I have notified the executrix that is my intention and now she has come back saying that before doing releasing any funds her solicitor has suggested having an indemnity letter in place, and she's not budging. Is this something she is supposed to get drawn up or is it for me to get drawn up? if its down to me, can I write one myself (obviously signed by me) or do I have to get one drawn up by a solicitor? I must admit, id never even heard of one before!

    Thanks in advance for any help or advice I'm given

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    On the basis of your previous posts if you do it yourself the chances are the executrix (and her solicitor) will find fault with it!

    I would suggest having it drawn up by a solcitor, even hers.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Many thanks again Des8. what I thought was a really basic and simple will and estate, she is managing to turn into epic proportions. Am I right in thinking an indemnity letter is purely to absolve her of any liability or wrong doing in the case of any mismanagement of the advanced money?

    Kind regards

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    It is to cover her against claims that your son might bring against her in relation to releasing part of his legacy before he gains control of it himself.

    I understand that your son inherits £6000 when he reaches 21.
    In the meantime the trustee can use the money for his benefit.
    In this case you want them to release 50% of it to you so you can use it for his benefit.
    Obviously this means it goes out of the trustee's control, and a solicitor would be failing in their duty if they did not point out to the trustee the danger inherent in this course of action.
    If you should use the money for any other purpose than the benefit of your son........
    I am not suggesting for one minute that you would use the money other than for the benefit of your son, but a solicitor will always look at that risk.
    Perhaps the solicitor should also advise the trustee to effect a Trustee and Management Liability Policy

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    The will actually specifies that the 6000 inheritance is placed in trust until he is 21 by his parents. So once the money is distributed, it is our decision where it goes, that sort of takes her out of the equation anyway surely.
    randomly, it was her solicitor who suggested to her to offer this option of advancing half to us. Maybe he sees it as a way of earning more reddies.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    If the will stipulates you, the parents are to set up the trust, I'm at a loss to understand why she needs a letter of indemnity.

    I'm tagging another beagle Peridot, a solicitor who hopefully can throw a light on this
    @Peridot
    Last edited by des8; 12th January 2017 at 17:46:PM.

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    me too Des8, too be honest, I've been baffled by a lot of her stipulations of me, but I've tried to toe the line all the way along to speed up the process. at some point though I've got to stop and ask myself why does she keep delaying delaying delaying. as mentioned before, it is a really really simple will. it was just reall badly worded by her.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Peridot is not on at the moment, but hopefully she will be able to assist.

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Hi,
    Sorry for the delay, I hadn't realised I'd been tagged.
    A parental indemnity would be the usual way to deal with paying an inheritance for a child to their parents. The parents would then be responsible for the legacy and it's investment until the appropriate age they should receive the inheritance. If the parents spent it or didn't invest it sensibly then the child could sue them. Without a parental indemnity the executor would be liable.
    However, in this situation it is very dependant on the wording of the Will. More recent wills incorporate a lot of clauses often referred to as the STEP provisions. If the 2nd edition STEP provisions are used then there would be a clause dealing with execs accepting a parental indemnity (unless it states specifically that this clause is not included in the Will). However if the 2nd edition STEP provisions are not included you need to consider the wording of the Will and refer to the Trustees Act for what can be done by the trustee (in this instance the executor becomes the trustee unless someone else is named).
    It is a very common occurrence to obtain a parental indemnity and I wouldn't assume there is anything underhand going on with regard to this.
    I am a qualified solicitor employed by the LegalBeagles forum to provide guidance on a wide range of legal queries. I am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

    If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Hi Peridot, thanks for reply. The will is worded very poorly and as such that has caused the nearly nine year delay. The exact wording is ----
    "A trust set up for my grandson #### in the sum of £6,000 to be allocated by his parents at the age of 21"
    The executrix's solicitor has also advised her that "It appears to me that it has been expressly provided for that somebody else, The parents, can look after the money for #### until he gets to 21 providing they give a valid receipt". The executrix put it in writing to me as the advice shed been given.
    We had also been offered from the outset a chance under "section 32 of the trustee act 1925" to receive half now for his benefit. she is insisting I give an indemnity for that also. My brothers daughter also has exactly the same inheritance due but the executrix has stipulated to them he only has to give a valid receipt. All through this the executrix has been inconsistent and I'm not entirely convinced she knows exactly what she's doing. There are no clauses and it wasn't professionally drawn up. It was done 2 days before my dad passed away by the executrix.
    Surely if the will says the trust is to be allocated by the parents then the executrix couldn't be held liable without an indemnity as she is only distributing according to the will?
    I really appreciate any help given on here

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Just as an aside, she has recently just asked me how I could guarantee that he wont get his money until he turns 21. I replied that I don't think I could give a cast iron guarantee because I was sure that there was a way he could terminate his trust himself at 18 and it wouldn't be prudent of me to offer guarantees if that were the case. I may be wrong obviously.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Hi,
    You don't need to guarantee to her that your son won't get the money before 21yrs. The point of a parental indemnity is that if you don't look after the money and invest wisely (or at least take advice and follow that advice on investing) then your son could sue you for the legacy and interest.
    I would not accept the half payment unless there is a good reason to do so, just wait for the full £6k. It appears to be getting all sides a bit anxious so why bother muddying things accepting half payments. I think you may be analysing too much trying to second guess matters. There appears to be some confusion over the accounts sign off, for which there has been sensible advice from other posters.
    Maybe take a breath, sign the interim accounts and hopefully matters will conclude shortly. The executor is clearly getting anxious herself but seems to be seeking solicitors advice when she is unsure, maybe a bit of breathing room is needed? Appreciate it has been a long time getting to the grant of probate but you're there now and the executor seems to be trying to finalise matters. Hopefully things will plod toward conclusion soon.
    I am a qualified solicitor employed by the LegalBeagles forum to provide guidance on a wide range of legal queries. I am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

    If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Many thanks again peridot. I did return the interim accounts at the end of September 2016, but as I mentioned a little earlier in this thread, everytime I return something that she demands, she then demands something else. It's like a never ending circle. It really is a simple distribution. Four beneficiaries-2grandchildren and me and my brother as residual beneficiarys. And then four check's to charities.
    The estate has been collected in since March 16 and the probate was issued February 16.
    No she is not seeking her solicitors advice anymore. She told me that when I asked if the legal bill to the estate was still going up everytime she asked for advice.
    Can I ask, does the wording that I provided you with correctly entitle my sons money to come to us to place in trust?
    And is it normal for an executor to give different requirements for allowing distribution for exactly the same thing (both grandchildrens trusts)
    many thanks.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Hi,
    It isn't the usual wording but it is clear that the funds can be held by the parents. You will be holding the money on trust for your son. I suspect as she is not communicating with your brother she maybe thinks she is doing you a favour offering half now as to opposed to treating you both the same but is isn't anything novel. It may be that she has become fixated with the 'executors year' (from probate grant).
    Maybe take a step back if you can and if things don't move toward completion in the next month, seek some advice yourself as to how you can force her hand to finalise matters. The problem with forcing matters is that invariably stretches things out even further. It does appear that over the last year things have been moving forward.
    I am a qualified solicitor employed by the LegalBeagles forum to provide guidance on a wide range of legal queries. I am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

    If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    So she does have the right to refuse distribution to us ( the parents) to place our child's inheritance in trust, if I don't supply an indemnity? Even though the will stipulates that we are to place the money in trust.
    Surely just by the fact she has carried out distribution as per my fathers wishes, that would cover her from any future liability.
    Also, am I right in thinking that my son could terminate his trust himselfwhen he turns 18 if he wanted to, even if it is supposed to run till he is 21
    Thanks peridot and des8 for the assistance you've given me so far on this thread, I'm always greatfull

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Hi,
    As executor she is responsible for ensuring as far as reasonable that the Will is complied with and it's reasonable for her to obtain an indemnity from the parents on passing the legacies to you. This may be useful to help clarify:-
    When Can a Child Inherit
    Any minor children (i.e. under the age of 18 years) cannot receive any legacy left to them until they attain the age of 18 years or any other age greater that may have specified in the Will.* Their legacy would be held in trust by your Trustees (the parents in this instance) being responsible for investing the monies to the best possible advantage for the ultimate benefit of the child on attaining that specified age. However, the Trustees have power to make an advance of one half the capital to the child prior to the specified age but there must be very good reasons for doing so.* The Trustees also have power to use the interest earned on any investments for the child's benefit maintenance or education.* The child has a right to all the INCOME from the inheritance on attaining the age of 18 years even if you have declared that the child cannot have the capital until some greater age.
    I am a qualified solicitor employed by the LegalBeagles forum to provide guidance on a wide range of legal queries. I am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

    If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Thanks again for your thought out and measured reply Peridot. But it didn't really answer my question as such. I am aware of the general standing regards trusts and receiving the income earnt from it when he turns 18. But I've read on here about the rule in Saunders v Vautier. I just wanted clarification really that even if his trust is to run until he is 21, he has the ability of his own accord to shut down the trust when he turns majority age. He is the sole beneficiary of his trust.
    This is important to me because, she has asked me how I can guarantee he won't get it till he is 21. This rule would mean that i couldn't possibly provide any guarantees, and therefore can't provide her with one.
    I know you've said I shouldn't have to provide her with one but she wont let it go.

    Thanks

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Hi,
    The legacy is contingent upon your son reaching 21. If in the unlikely event he did not reach 21years then the legacy falls back into the residue. Therefore if you wished to try and use the Saunders argument you would have to obtain permission of all the residuary beneficiaries also, not just your son.
    I assume your father had some reason for indicating your son should not receive the inheritance until 21? Probably knowing what teenagers are like with money I expect and maybe he thought the lump sum would be more helpful at a later point?
    Once a receipt and an indemnity is signed, you are the one that becomes responsible and therefore liable in the event the legacy is for example, not invested appropriately or something were to happen to your son before 21 and therefore the legacy should fall back into the residue to be divided accordingly.
    What about seeking some independent financial advice on whether there is any product that could be utilised until your son reaches 21 and just wait until that time? Is there any major problem with waiting until your son reaches 21? Should you just follow your father's wishes?
    You can no doubt see the issues caused with preparing your own wills. I hope the rest of your family have made arrangements to have their own wills dealt with by a professional.
    I am a qualified solicitor employed by the LegalBeagles forum to provide guidance on a wide range of legal queries. I am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

    If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Estate sign off and distribution

    Peridot, I think your getting the wrong end of the stick here. I'm not trying to get my son to receive it before he's due. I have no intention of that. In fact it wouldn't worry me if it was 25. It just that when the executrix decides she wants something, she doesn't move on any further because she just won't see any other possibility than what she wants. She doesn't take regular legal advice , rather just keeps threatening it to threaten further charges to the estate. My whole point here is that she wants a guarantee from me aside from the indemnity. I'm saying I can't give her that if the law allows my son to close his trust himself at 18. Everything then comes to a standstill. Unless you are suggesting I can give a guarantee. Of course my fathers wishes are of paramount importance to me, albeit I'm not sure these are his wishes anyway. She wrote it 2 days before my father passed, him high on morphine. We have a statement from the doctor to say if he had known she was making my father do a will, he wouldn't of allowed it. My name isn't even spelt correctly on it. It's taken her 8 years to get passed at probate. At least two solicitors said it was one of the worst worded wills they've seen written, it's so ambiguous. But here we are and just trying to deal with it. Both my wife and myself and my brother, the other residual beneficiary have professional wills. It's a nightmare.

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