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Desparate, Help please

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  • Desparate, Help please

    Good Morning,

    I hope you can help.

    About 2 weeks ago I received a visit from a bailiff ( enforcement officer) over an unpaid magistrates fine.

    I let the bailiff in as I was informed by the court that he was allowed to force entry. He looked around and stated that there was nothing of value only the TV and sky box, probably worth less £200 maximum. he left no controlled goods order or inventory.

    I felt intimidated and bullied and agreed to pay the full amount by that Friday, a total of £603, this was impossible as I would not have been able to pay my rent, already at risk of eviction, or feed my 3 children.

    I went to the CAB who referred me to the national debt line. they completed an income and expenditure form, which I immediately sent to Marstons.

    I paid £100 as an initial payment and said I would pay £25 per week, I paid the first £25 last week on the day before I said I would pay it.. I had no further communication fro Marstos, either agreeing or disagreeing with my proposal

    This morning the bailiff attended again, I did not answer the door but he posted a piece of paper through the door stating he would return after 7 pm to take control of goods. The amount outstanding has been reduced by the amount I have paid, so they are well aware that I have made payment.

    What is the point if he has already said there is nothing of real value, is he likely to return and how do I deal with it.


    Help please, I am worried sick.

    Stacey
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Sesparate, Help please

    Because you said you would pay in full bu XXXX and did not they will see this as broken agreement. Did you know about the fine originally? Did you attend Court?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Sesparate, Help please

      I did attend court and subsequently set up a standing order which cancelled ....however due to a cocktail of pain killers I didn't pick up on this. Marston haven't sent any notifications of intent to attend nor responded to the email sent

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Sesparate, Help please

        Originally posted by Stacey n View Post
        I did attend court and subsequently set up a standing order which cancelled ....however due to a cocktail of pain killers I didn't pick up on this. Marston haven't sent any notifications of intent to attend nor responded to the email sent
        As they had previously visited they do not have to give any further notification of visiting. You will already have incurred costs of £310 but unless they can take control of goods & then remove them they can add no further fees. As he has been in previously then he is allowed to force entry if need be but I would think if it was the same one who attended previously then he knows you have nothing so is possibly only saying he is coming back to ramp up the pressure.

        You say you have 3 children - what ages are they, are you a single parent?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Desparate, Help please

          17,15 and 11 years

          - - - Updated - - -

          Yes I'm a single parent

          - - - Updated - - -

          Yes I'm a single parent

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Desparate, Help please

            Originally posted by Stacey n View Post
            Good Morning,

            I hope you can help.

            About 2 weeks ago I received a visit from a bailiff ( enforcement officer) over an unpaid magistrates fine.

            I let the bailiff in as I was informed by the court that he was allowed to force entry. He looked around and stated that there was nothing of value only the TV and sky box, probably worth less £200 maximum. he left no controlled goods order or inventory.

            I felt intimidated and bullied and agreed to pay the full amount by that Friday, a total of £603, this was impossible as I would not have been able to pay my rent, already at risk of eviction, or feed my 3 children.

            I went to the CAB who referred me to the national debt line. they completed an income and expenditure form, which I immediately sent to Marstons.

            I paid £100 as an initial payment and said I would pay £25 per week, I paid the first £25 last week on the day before I said I would pay it.. I had no further communication fro Marstos, either agreeing or disagreeing with my proposal

            This morning the bailiff attended again, I did not answer the door but he posted a piece of paper through the door stating he would return after 7 pm to take control of goods. The amount outstanding has been reduced by the amount I have paid, so they are well aware that I have made payment.

            What is the point if he has already said there is nothing of real value, is he likely to return and how do I deal with it.


            Help please, I am worried sick.

            Stacey
            Hello Stacey,

            Sorry to hear these buckets of scum are hassling you when they know you have nothing, when they know you're paying £25 a week, when they know you you're single parent with 3 kids at home. Let Marston's know that you're a single parent of 3 kids who live at home before the bailiff comes round later on. This should stop them coming, as they then have a duty to treat you differently to someone who is not in your circumstances. You also take pain-killers, let Marston's know that you're afflicted with pain also. I have found a practical guide for you from Croydon Debt Advice Service. It offers advice on all debt matters and how to deal with your debts, including bailiffs: https://www.croydon.gov.uk/sites/def...dvice_pack.pdf

            If you feel threatened by the bailiffs or harassed in any way, call the police as harassment is a criminal offence.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Desparate, Help please

              Thank you so much for your response currently walking the dog so I'm not at home when he calls will email them in the morning and make sure they know that...I'm also contacting the fine manager to try to negotiate with them directly as Marstons don't like to reply to offers

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Desparate, Help please

                Originally posted by Stacey n View Post
                Thank you so much for your response currently walking the dog so I'm not at home when he calls will email them in the morning and make sure they know that...I'm also contacting the fine manager to try to negotiate with them directly as Marstons don't like to reply to offers
                The law is this country (England/ Wales) is that 'hardship and 'single parents' have special protection. Tell Marstons that Parliament (who make the law) cite the Ministry of Justice (government) guidance, that says the Warrant should be returned to the courts when there is hardship, not just single parents. http://www.publications.parliament.u...memo/wrw02.htm

                The Parliament source states: "The Ministry of Justice [4] "Taking control of goods national standards" recognises vulnerable situations and sets up a procedure for dealing with them.
                7) Vulnerable situations

                70. Enforcement agents/agencies and creditors must recognise that they each have a role in ensuring that the vulnerable and socially excluded are protected and that the recovery process includes procedures agreed between the agent/agency and creditor about how such situations should be dealt with. The appropriate use of discretion is essential in every case and no amount of guidance could cover every situation. Therefore the agent has a duty to contact the creditor and report the circumstances in situations where there is evidence of a potential cause for concern.

                71. If necessary, the enforcement agent will advise the creditor if further action is appropriate. The exercise of appropriate discretion is needed, not only to protect the debtor, but also the enforcement agent who should avoid taking action which could lead to accusations of inappropriate behaviour.

                72. Enforcement agents must withdraw from domestic premises if the only person present is, or appears to be, under the age of 16 or is deemed to be vulnerable by the enforcement agent; they can ask when the debtor will be home - if appropriate.

                73. Enforcement agents must withdraw without making enquiries if the only persons present are children who appear to be under the age of 12.

                74. A debtor may be considered vulnerable if, for reasons of age, health or disability they are unable to safeguard their personal welfare or the personal welfare of other members of the household. 75. The enforcement agent must be sure that the debtor or the person to whom they are entering into a controlled goods agreement understands the agreement and the consequences if the agreement is not complied with.

                76. Enforcement agents should be aware that vulnerability may not be immediately obvious.

                77. Some groups who might be vulnerable are listed below. However, this list is not exhaustive. Care should be taken to assess each situation on a case by case basis.

                a) the elderly;
                b) people with a disability;
                c) the seriously ill;
                d) the recently bereaved;
                e) single parent families;
                f) pregnant women;
                g) unemployed people; and,
                h) those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

                78. Wherever possible, enforcement agents should have arrangements in place for rapidly accessing interpretation services (including British Sign Language), when these are needed, and provide on request information in large print or in Braille for debtors with impaired sight.

                LAW ALLOWING MAGISTRATES TO RECONSIDER FINES UNPAID DUE TO FINANCIAL HARDSHIP

                8) The fines officers in the Magistrates Courts and the bailiffs enforcing fines seem not to know that Legal Advice Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 allows them refer cases back to the magistrates when;
                i) a person was not in court when fined and has a disproportionate fine
                ii) there is a change of circumstances after the Magistrates’ original decision
                iii) there is financial hardship

                BARONESS NORTHOVER’S ASSURANCES GIVEN TO PARLIAMENT

                9) It is clear that the government amendment allows for the withdrawal of a warrant where there is a mistake in the decision to issue the warrant in the first place. The amendment covers the case where an offender is not in court when the warrant is issued, which results in the court not having the full information before it. This, in effect, amounts to a mistake. I hope that that also helps to reassure my noble friend Lord Thomas. If there has been a change of circumstances that, had it been known to the court, would have had an impact on the decision to issue a warrant, it is open to the debtor to argue that the warrant had been issued by mistake.

                In practice, however, when bailiffs come across hardship as defined in the guidance they should not execute the warrant and return it to the court."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Desparate, Help please

                  If only bailiffs and Marstons could understand the law

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Desparate, Help please

                    Originally posted by wales01man View Post
                    If only bailiffs and Marstons could understand the law

                    Some carry on as if it is still 2013, however Stacey should be aware that as it is a magistrates fine they can force entry anyway, they might take the TV just to show they can, but would be very silly if they did.

                    Contact Marston's Welfare Department to appraise them of your situation, they may be able to help.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Desparate, Help please

                      Thank you for your kind replies, it is so nice to receive such support.

                      Could I ask is he able to force entry and take possessions even though theses are unlikely to cover the costs of doing so.

                      It also seems the have added more fees than they should.

                      Thanks again.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Desparate, Help please

                        Originally posted by Stacey n View Post
                        Thank you for your kind replies, it is so nice to receive such support.

                        Could I ask is he able to force entry and take possessions even though theses are unlikely to cover the costs of doing so.

                        It also seems the have added more fees than they should.

                        Thanks again.
                        The way I understand the law is that yes whilst he has that Warrant he (the bailiff) has the power to return . Marston's should be following the guidance so they need a reminding of your situation and the law. You can either approach Marston's and copy and paste the Parliament discussion about Bailiffs and the legal guidance. If Marston's won't take the Warrant back in your circumstances, once you inform them., Your second alternative is to contact the Fines Officer at your Magistrates Court and tell him, it was a mistake to give Marston's a Warrant, or there has been a change of circumstances since the Warrant, or the Magistrates were not told of all the facts. Tell him that Parliament state the Magistrate should cancel the Warrant in your circumstances. For instance, tell Marston's and or the Fines' Officer that you're a single parent of three children, and you're in financial hardship, and are on pain-killers, which may imply a disability, but it's certainly ill health.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Desparate, Help please

                          Once again thank you for all your help.

                          It is only fair to keep you updated.

                          The bailiff has not returned yet.
                          Marston's have not acknowledged any of my communications..
                          The court manager was less than helpful, stating that he could do nothing and the advice I had been given was wrong, even after quoting the magistrates court guidance that was so kindly supplied on here.. He admitted that an attachment of earnings order was sent to the wrong address

                          I managed to scrape £178 together, by selling stuff etc. meaning I have paid a total of £303 in the last two weeks, slightly over 50% of the total bill. I shall be dining on pea and ham soup without the ham for the foreseeable future.

                          If this isn't good enough then I give up,.

                          I will keep you updated.

                          Thank you
                          Stacey

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Desparate, Help please

                            Originally posted by Openlaw15 View Post
                            The law is this country (England/ Wales) is that 'hardship and 'single parents' have special protection. Tell Marstons that Parliament (who make the law) cite the Ministry of Justice (government) guidance, that says the Warrant should be returned to the courts when there is hardship, not just single parents. http://www.publications.parliament.u...memo/wrw02.htm

                            The Parliament source states: "The Ministry of Justice [4] "Taking control of goods national standards" recognises vulnerable situations and sets up a procedure for dealing with them.
                            7) Vulnerable situations

                            70. Enforcement agents/agencies and creditors must recognise that they each have a role in ensuring that the vulnerable and socially excluded are protected and that the recovery process includes procedures agreed between the agent/agency and creditor about how such situations should be dealt with. The appropriate use of discretion is essential in every case and no amount of guidance could cover every situation. Therefore the agent has a duty to contact the creditor and report the circumstances in situations where there is evidence of a potential cause for concern.

                            71. If necessary, the enforcement agent will advise the creditor if further action is appropriate. The exercise of appropriate discretion is needed, not only to protect the debtor, but also the enforcement agent who should avoid taking action which could lead to accusations of inappropriate behaviour.

                            72. Enforcement agents must withdraw from domestic premises if the only person present is, or appears to be, under the age of 16 or is deemed to be vulnerable by the enforcement agent; they can ask when the debtor will be home - if appropriate.

                            73. Enforcement agents must withdraw without making enquiries if the only persons present are children who appear to be under the age of 12.

                            74. A debtor may be considered vulnerable if, for reasons of age, health or disability they are unable to safeguard their personal welfare or the personal welfare of other members of the household. 75. The enforcement agent must be sure that the debtor or the person to whom they are entering into a controlled goods agreement understands the agreement and the consequences if the agreement is not complied with.

                            76. Enforcement agents should be aware that vulnerability may not be immediately obvious.

                            77. Some groups who might be vulnerable are listed below. However, this list is not exhaustive. Care should be taken to assess each situation on a case by case basis.

                            a) the elderly;
                            b) people with a disability;
                            c) the seriously ill;
                            d) the recently bereaved;
                            e) single parent families;
                            f) pregnant women;
                            g) unemployed people; and,
                            h) those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

                            78. Wherever possible, enforcement agents should have arrangements in place for rapidly accessing interpretation services (including British Sign Language), when these are needed, and provide on request information in large print or in Braille for debtors with impaired sight.

                            LAW ALLOWING MAGISTRATES TO RECONSIDER FINES UNPAID DUE TO FINANCIAL HARDSHIP

                            8) The fines officers in the Magistrates Courts and the bailiffs enforcing fines seem not to know that Legal Advice Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 allows them refer cases back to the magistrates when;
                            i) a person was not in court when fined and has a disproportionate fine
                            ii) there is a change of circumstances after the Magistrates’ original decision
                            iii) there is financial hardship

                            BARONESS NORTHOVER’S ASSURANCES GIVEN TO PARLIAMENT

                            9) It is clear that the government amendment allows for the withdrawal of a warrant where there is a mistake in the decision to issue the warrant in the first place. The amendment covers the case where an offender is not in court when the warrant is issued, which results in the court not having the full information before it. This, in effect, amounts to a mistake. I hope that that also helps to reassure my noble friend Lord Thomas. If there has been a change of circumstances that, had it been known to the court, would have had an impact on the decision to issue a warrant, it is open to the debtor to argue that the warrant had been issued by mistake.

                            In practice, however, when bailiffs come across hardship as defined in the guidance they should not execute the warrant and return it to the court."
                            I now this is an old thread, but i find no record of this ever being implemented, is it not the case that the section was just a draft document and was left out of the final instrument.
                            It does not appear in any of the legislation mentioned nor in any of the amendments yet to be introduced.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Desparate, Help please

                              That's because openlaw15 (aka stopbailiff aka ruleoflaw) simply copy and pasted the reply from here - http://taxpayersagainstpoverty.org.u...rdship-ignored - without actually understanding what has been amended.

                              For information, it's s88 of LASPO, which makes amendments to the Courts Act 2003 adding sections 40A, B, and C. It's nothing new really - if the person wasn't aware of proceedings and wasn't in court to be financially assessed, then the warrant can be withdrawn and a different fine set.

                              Btw, that's a very dubious username you've come up with Dodge.

                              Comment

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