The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

It goes on and on .... as I get more and more stressed :-)

Having rung the court they advised me to try another telephon number and also an email to their legal department
The telephone number goes to voice mail, and I left a message. The email was sent a short while ago and I'll wait until tomorrow for a reply before going further

The frustrating thing is that having done internet research, for something that happened 2 years ago I am unlikely to be able to mount a defence because I will probably have nothing to disprove what they say happened on 4 February 2015. On the other hand if I just pay the fine to get rid of it, I can't guarantee Civil Enforcements will institute the proceedings to remove the CCJ. So all in all this may end up costing me £500 ..... soley so that I can get a small loan to pay off my daughters University £6k credit card bill for her!

There is so much on the internet about Civil Enforcements and people disputing charges :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Thanks for the help I received before
I did all the necessary paperwork, and they set a court date for when I was on holiday. I had to request to be represented, which was fine

My representative went and sat in a room with (I assume) a magistrate and he said that he would allow the CCJ to be set aside, but only if I apply to make an official counter to the ccj ruling within the next 21 days. He wouldnt comment further, other than to say "google it". I have, and cant find anything clear

Sorry to ask for more info, but does anyone have an idea of what I should be doing to make this official counter? Ive done the witness statementsand all I should have done to get this far, I just assumed that after the court visit it would be set aside and that would be the end of the story

[Kati]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

[MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] xx

[mystery1]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

That sounds, well, err, wrong. It kind of sounds like on one hand set aside is granted but on the other he is saying to appeal.

I would ring the court and see what their system says happened.

Perhaps [MENTION=71570]R0b[/MENTION] or [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] can decipher it better than me.

M1

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Thanks again - I cant find anything about what has been asked of me on line - I guess unless the other two members you mentioned have any input it will be a case of trying to find out direct from the court, which is always a challenge :-)

[R0b]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

What were your grounds for setting aside and did you attach a draft defence to the set aside application? If the judge has made that ruling then there should be an order which requires you to do whatever he said in relation to this "counter".

I suspect what the judge means is that a defence should be submitted which shows a reasonable prospect of successfully defending the claim. The issue is that the CCJ was applied in 2014 and presumably you received no documentation, therefore you are unable to fully plead a defence until you are given the evidence which they relied upon to prove that you were in breach.

Setting aside a default judgment on grounds of non receipt of the claim form as well as the claimant not taking reasonable steps to ascertain your current whereabouts. However, setting aside on those grounds is discretion of the judge but if the application to set aside is refused, then arguably there could be a breach of human rights as to the right to a fair trial. In the usual circumstances, unless there is evidence to the contrary i.e. they showed up and provided evidence that they took reasonable steps then the CCJ is set aside.

If the judge refuses to set aside, then you do have an extra opportunity to appeal that set aside decision, but again though its going to cost you money.

Did the judge set another hearing date or required this "counter" to be filed and a decision will be made without a hearing?

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

What were your grounds for setting aside and did you attach a draft defence to the set aside application? If the judge has made that ruling then there should be an order which requires you to do whatever he said in relation to this "counter".

I suspect what the judge means is that a defence should be submitted which shows a reasonable prospect of successfully defending the claim. The issue is that the CCJ was applied in 2014 and presumably you received no documentation, therefore you are unable to fully plead a defence until you are given the evidence which they relied upon to prove that you were in breach.

Setting aside a default judgment on grounds of non receipt of the claim form as well as the claimant not taking reasonable steps to ascertain your current whereabouts. However, setting aside on those grounds is discretion of the judge but if the application to set aside is refused, then arguably there could be a breach of human rights as to the right to a fair trial. In the usual circumstances, unless there is evidence to the contrary i.e. they showed up and provided evidence that they took reasonable steps then the CCJ is set aside.

If the judge refuses to set aside, then you do have an extra opportunity to appeal that set aside decision, but again though its going to cost you money.

Did the judge set another hearing date or required this "counter" to be filed and a decision will be made without a hearing?

He said he would set aside the CCJ aside subject to me making an official counter to the ccj ruling within the next 21 days
As I still have absolutrely no idea whjat the original claim was for, it makes it difficult to defend.

I just spoke to the court offices for clarification and they too are confused. I was recommended to send an email in to the court asking for clarification as to what they require although that can take 15 days to get a reply and I have limited time to act

I originally put in an application notice, witness statement together with copies of the unanswered letters to Civil Enforcement, and this all outlined their lack of response, the fact that no paperwork had been received for the original "offence" or subsequent court notifications, and making my case in full.

[R0b]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Well the court should send out an order explaining exactly what you should be doing and what this "counter" means but as I suspect the judge might be referring to a defence being filed, as I can't think of anything else. I presume Civil Enforcement didn't turn up?

An email might be a good suggestion but you should mark the subject as "URGENT REQUEST" and then explain that the judge has ordered you provide a "counter" within 21 days but has failed to explain what this is and that you ask that your claim is put before the judge for further directions and explanation as to what is required given that your compliance is time sensitive.

You should aim to follow it up in the next couple of days by calling them and explaining that you've sent an email and need further directions and try to do it that way.

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Well the court should send out an order explaining exactly what you should be doing and what this "counter" means but as I suspect the judge might be referring to a defence being filed, as I can't think of anything else. I presume Civil Enforcement didn't turn up?

An email might be a good suggestion but you should mark the subject as "URGENT REQUEST" and then explain that the judge has ordered you provide a "counter" within 21 days but has failed to explain what this is and that you ask that your claim is put before the judge for further directions and explanation as to what is required given that your compliance is time sensitive.

You should aim to follow it up in the next couple of days by calling them and explaining that you've sent an email and need further directions and try to do it that way.

Thanks again

No, Civil Enforcement havent replied to emails, telephone messages or letters. hence I dont know what I am defending. The present owner of our old flat at the address where all the documents seem to be made out to says he has never received any official documemtation addressed to us, otherwise he would have forwarded it.

Ive typed out a draft email and will follow your recommendations. I also looked in to "draft defence", which maybe this is where (as you said) I am going wrong. I assume there is an official draft defence document which I will try and find, although I can put little more in it than I have already said

[R0b]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Unfortunately there is no official defence for situations like these as each case is different. Although the format and layout of a defence remains the same, the contents of it will not.

There is a draft example here -> http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...t-Court-Claims

but that relates to consumer credit claims, though you can take the format and some of the wording and adapt it to your situation. I've attached a more comprehensive version below which some parts will relate to you such as reference to the case law in relation to disclosure which may be helpful to your defence especially their lack of co-operation.

Maybe have a go at writing something up then if you want to post one of us can take a look and provide feedback and in the meantime keep on top calling the court for updates, if push comes to shove you might need to go in person to get the result you need.

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Unfortunately there is no official defence for situations like these as each case is different. Although the format and layout of a defence remains the same, the contents of it will not.

There is a draft example here -> http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...t-Court-Claims

but that relates to consumer credit claims, though you can take the format and some of the wording and adapt it to your situation. I've attached a more comprehensive version below which some parts will relate to you such as reference to the case law in relation to disclosure which may be helpful to your defence especially their lack of co-operation.

Maybe have a go at writing something up then if you want to post one of us can take a look and provide feedback and in the meantime keep on top calling the court for updates, if push comes to shove you might need to go in person to get the result you need.

Thank you, I will do that .... the example you put up is a great start, I can adapt it to fit in with my situation ..... and thank you, yes I will post it up when done top see what people think. Thank you so much for your help, it is invaluable in a situation like this

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

R0b, here are the 2 documents I have completed, a draft order and a draft defence. I'm hoping I might get my £255 back!

I'm not sure if 12 - 16 should actually be there on the defence

Also my representative seems to remember the magistrate say that copies of this should be sent to Civil Enforcement also, I' m trying to discover if that is right

Do you think this is sufficient?

Many thanks

[Stravinskykof]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

Unfortunately there is no official defence for situations like these as each case is different. Although the format and layout of a defence remains the same, the contents of it will not.

There is a draft example here -> http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...t-Court-Claims

but that relates to consumer credit claims, though you can take the format and some of the wording and adapt it to your situation. I've attached a more comprehensive version below which some parts will relate to you such as reference to the case law in relation to disclosure which may be helpful to your defence especially their lack of co-operation.

Maybe have a go at writing something up then if you want to post one of us can take a look and provide feedback and in the meantime keep on top calling the court for updates, if push comes to shove you might need to go in person to get the result you need.

Sorry R0b, couldnt seem to tag you, my documents in post above

[R0b]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

I'll take a proper look later today, have only skimmed it

[R0b]

Re: The Dreaded Civil Enforcement Ltd

I've taken a further look at this and have amended but would it be possible for you to upload a copy of the POC with your info redacted?