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Thread: Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

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  1. #1
    nicholascleverley's Avatar

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    Default Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

    Hi All,

    I am new to the forum but have discovered some very helpful information from this forum before so decided that you would be the best place to help.

    I recently exercised my right to voluntary termination on a conditional purchase as I had received a company car and no longer needed the fiesta.

    Everything went smoothly, I dropped the car off Manheim and had made arrangements to do it on a Saturday (not normal opening hours) as I work full time in the city during the week. There was only a security guard there who literally told me to park the car and give they keys, there was no paperwork to sign, no inspection to sign and the auction house told me to send my V5c off to the DVLA with Barclays Partner Finance's address (which they confirmed would be fine). The car was in reasonable nick and I assumed all was well after calling a couple weeks later and being told that I only owed £12.50 to get me to 50% of the contract.

    A month later and I have received a letter stating that I owe an additional £514.86 "the element of shortfall between the sale price realised at auction and the CAP (market) valuation at time of auction which is attributable solely to the condition of the vehicle or due to a prior breach of the Terms and Conditions of the agreement by yourself".

    Before I attack, can anyone offer advice on how I should approach this? The car was in good condition when I left it there and I have never breached any terms or bounced any payment/direct debit.

    I have just come home to this today and they are closed, so being anxious about the situation, it would be great if anyone could tell me my legal standing on this issue.

    I have attached an image of the letter.

    Thank you all in advance, I appreciate any help.

    Nick
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0162.jpg  

  2. #2
    Kati's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

    to LB

    I'll just tag @R0b to come along and help you xx
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  3. #3
    nicholascleverley's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

    Quote Originally Posted by Kati View Post
    to LB

    I'll just tag @R0b to come along and help you xx

    Thank you for the welcome and for the help

    Excuse the spelling mistakes in my initial post, just realised how many there are :o

  4. #4
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

    Hi Nicholas,

    Did you take any photos of the car before you handed it over to prove the condition it was in?
    How old is the car and what was the mileage of it?

    They've made reference to CAP value which I believe they are using the CAP indicators which is essentially a book of information on the value of cars given their age and condition such as mileage. CAP will have a set of conditions when determining how saleable the car is - you can find the checklist at the following link, it seems like Barclays are using the "Average" standard here-> https://www.cap.co.uk/media/2354/caphpiconditions.pdf

    There are a few things you could raise as an issue.

    1. You could argue they may have failed to mitigate their losses. You legally terminated the agreement and so you could say they were required to mitigate their loss by obtaining the best possible price. Taking it to a car auction is unlikely to get you the best sale when it could be sold to a dealer or alternatively on the private market. By failing to mitigate their loss, they are not entitled to the sums they claim.

    2. They said that the car was sold under value compared to the CAP value, what was the car actually sold for and what CAP value say about what it might be worth in an "average" condition. You should be entitled to this information which you can then compare and get some valuations of your own from online or pop in to your local supermarket or WH Smith and check out the Parker's Guide to car values which should also give you a sort of indication of what the car might be worth and compare it to what it was sold for.

    Equally, just because the CAP value says its worth X and the car was sold for less does not mean that the car was not returned to Barclays in less than a reasonable condition. The CCA says only needs to be returned to them in a reasonable condition nothing more. That is subjective and but suggestions could include, valid MOT, regular service, minor dents or small scratches which don't go further than the paint are likely to be reasonable too, taking into account the age of the car too.

    So there's a number of points you can raise but you also want to get a breakdown of these charges that they say has caused the car to be in an unreasonable condition. The burden of proof is on Barclays to show the car was not in a reasonable condition, not you. I'd question the £12.50 too and what that is for.

    Expect them to fight it, and keep an eye on your credit report in case they apply any defaults on your file.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  5. #5
    nicholascleverley's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

    Quote Originally Posted by R0b View Post
    Hi Nicholas,

    Did you take any photos of the car before you handed it over to prove the condition it was in?
    How old is the car and what was the mileage of it?

    They've made reference to CAP value which I believe they are using the CAP indicators which is essentially a book of information on the value of cars given their age and condition such as mileage. CAP will have a set of conditions when determining how saleable the car is - you can find the checklist at the following link, it seems like Barclays are using the "Average" standard here-> https://www.cap.co.uk/media/2354/caphpiconditions.pdf

    There are a few things you could raise as an issue.

    1. You could argue they may have failed to mitigate their losses. You legally terminated the agreement and so you could say they were required to mitigate their loss by obtaining the best possible price. Taking it to a car auction is unlikely to get you the best sale when it could be sold to a dealer or alternatively on the private market. By failing to mitigate their loss, they are not entitled to the sums they claim.

    2. They said that the car was sold under value compared to the CAP value, what was the car actually sold for and what CAP value say about what it might be worth in an "average" condition. You should be entitled to this information which you can then compare and get some valuations of your own from online or pop in to your local supermarket or WH Smith and check out the Parker's Guide to car values which should also give you a sort of indication of what the car might be worth and compare it to what it was sold for.

    Equally, just because the CAP value says its worth X and the car was sold for less does not mean that the car was not returned to Barclays in less than a reasonable condition. The CCA says only needs to be returned to them in a reasonable condition nothing more. That is subjective and but suggestions could include, valid MOT, regular service, minor dents or small scratches which don't go further than the paint are likely to be reasonable too, taking into account the age of the car too.

    So there's a number of points you can raise but you also want to get a breakdown of these charges that they say has caused the car to be in an unreasonable condition. The burden of proof is on Barclays to show the car was not in a reasonable condition, not you. I'd question the £12.50 too and what that is for.

    Expect them to fight it, and keep an eye on your credit report in case they apply any defaults on your file.
    Rob,

    Thank you for your reply, I very much appreciate it!

    I did take a photo of the car before I handed it back but it was very rushed so I foolishly did not get detailed ones. The car was a 2009 Fiesta Style Plus and it had about 50k on the clock.

    I am going to call them tomorrow and try to exercise your first point, I just never thought they could say this to me, I thought once the car was back it was done and finished. Also it appears that the loan has become settled on my credit report.

    I was told by the last person after the car was handed back that the 12.50 was all that is left to pay, which i accept as it is needed to make it to the 50% of the loan mark.

    Is this a trick that they often play? If they don't play ball tomorrow perhaps getting my solicitor to write a letter would budge them?

    Thanks again

  6. #6
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

    I would suggest putting it in writing, rather than over the phone its unlikely that the person you will be speaking to has authority to remove the charges, but also you want to keep a paper trail of what has been said.

    Its a common tactic to try and recover any money they may have lost as a result of terminating early.

    I wouldn't say its worth the money getting a solicitor involved as they could still say they have a right to the money and you have wasted even more money on this. Pay the £12.50 and but not the other sums they are claiming.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  7. #7
    nicholascleverley's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

    Hi Guys,

    Wanted to thank you all for helping me with this.

    R0b, I used your wording and it worked, I did not back down and eventually they did, removing all charges.

    This forum is great and I appreciate all the help received!

  8. #8
    R0b's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

    Glad to hear it

    I presume you have this in writing now? Keep hold of the letter and your documentation just for reference in case this ever comes up at a later stage - at least 6 years.
    DISCLAIMER: AS A PUBLIC FORUM, THE CONTENT POSTED BY ME IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE NOR DOES IT CREATE ANY KIND OF SPECIAL OR OTHER RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN YOU AND ME. IF YOU CHOOSE TO FOLLOW ANYTHING THAT I HAVE PUBLISHED THEN YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK AND COST, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT LIABILITY. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SEEK INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BY GOING TO Law Society's Find A Solicitor OR CONTACT YOUR LOCAL Citizen's Advice Bureau.


  9. #9
    mol9's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

    Hi @nicholascleverley,

    I am glad Barclays eventually backed down. Was your credit file impacted negatively at all?

    Have you had credit agreed since?

    Thank you

  10. #10
    endoftether's Avatar

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    Default Re: Please help - VT shortfall letter - Barclays

    Hi, I'm a newbie to the forum so apologies if my post is in the wrong place.

    We have recently VT'd our car and (foolishly, as we did not know we didn't need to till we found this site) signed the paperwork Barclays sent us advising that in order to complete the VT process we should sign the enclosed paperwork and return to them then take the car to the auction site which we did and now we have received a letter from a debt collection agency asking us to contact them as they have been trying to contact us without success. At the same time we have received a letter from Barclays advising a nil balance. We're really worried, help please.

    Thanks in advance and any help would be much appreciated as having nightmares about this now. We only VT'd the car because we knew OH was going to be paid off and we wouldn't be able to afford the repayments.
    Last edited by endoftether; 8th December 2017 at 00:57:AM. Reason: missed out words

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