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occupation order and undertaking

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  • occupation order and undertaking

    Hello everyone,I got taken to court by my x,after 20years togather,2 children girl of 17 son of 11,she tried for non molestion order and occupation order,said I had g.b.h.on my records which I proved was a lie,did she need to also have records of abuse and doctors documents to even take it to court in the first place?,and claimed allsorts of assaults on her from me,she went to a women's refuge who obviously helped her to get a case up and running against me,for my part 6 weeks I had no news where she was or my children,police were not interested,then I was served with the order to appear at a family court,now the judge found all of her allegations untrue(his words no facts in the finding)so he should have,but made me take an undertaking,and slapped a occupation order for nine months which is over soon,council property,my name also on tenancy,I am homeless at the moment,my questions,can I go back home,I have never been violent or abusive,which she even stated in her application,so why am I being punished and made homeless,even for nine months,the judge also told her make sure you let him see children,but she keeps making up excuses,do I try going back?haven't seen my children for 8months now,can she extended the occupation order?(sorry for the long post)thank you everybody for reading your views or idea's will be helpful.thanks in advance.
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  • #2
    Re: occupation order and undertaking

    Dear Jake67,

    It sounds like you have been through the mill!

    It is hard for me to advise you because you don't seem to be aware of exactly why the Judge asked for an undertaking and made an occupation order. Not understanding or remembering everything from a hearing is quite common as the situation can be very over whelming.The Judge would however have had to have heard evidence to make an order ( unless you agreed) and so it might be possible to obtain a transcript from the court. This is a taped record of what happened and might make it easier to understand why the Judge made the order. You could also ask a very good friend to go through the statement your ex gave and ask them if they can understand what was being said and what might have led to an occupation order. The reason I am suggesting a friend reads it is because often the person in receipt of such a statement or transcript finds it difficult to read neutrally and can naturally interpret comments/ allegations made in a rather strange way.

    My short answer is don't go back to the property. This is for several reasons, firstly the relationship seems to be over and your children are living there it would not therefore be appropriate for you to try to continue living there. Secondly the occupation order can either be extended or a new one applied for. Both the order and the undertaking, while they are in force, can be enforced by your ex getting a warrant for your arrest if you breach the terms. The occupation order may have a power of arrest attached.

    Both your children are at an age where their thoughts and feelings will be taken into account with regard to contact arrangements. I suggest given the complexity of this situation that you do take specialist legal advice, it may only need to be on a one off basis but take all the court documents with you and the solicitor will be able to advise you as to how best to proceed from here. There are several options but it is important you do not do anything that could be viewed as harassing your ex or the children.

    I hope this is of assistance.

    FionaC
    I work for Howlett Clarke Solicitors . Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability. If you are unsure please seek formal legal guidance.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: occupation order and undertaking

      Originally posted by jake67 View Post
      Hello everyone,I got taken to court by my x,after 20years togather,2 children girl of 17 son of 11,she tried for non molestion order and occupation order,said I had g.b.h.on my records which I proved was a lie,did she need to also have records of abuse and doctors documents to even take it to court in the first place?,and claimed allsorts of assaults on her from me,she went to a women's refuge who obviously helped her to get a case up and running against me,for my part 6 weeks I had no news where she was or my children,police were not interested,then I was served with the order to appear at a family court,now the judge found all of her allegations untrue(his words no facts in the finding)so he should have,but made me take an undertaking,and slapped a occupation order for nine months which is over soon,council property,my name also on tenancy,I am homeless at the moment,my questions,can I go back home,I have never been violent or abusive,which she even stated in her application,so why am I being punished and made homeless,even for nine months,the judge also told her make sure you let him see children,but she keeps making up excuses,do I try going back?haven't seen my children for 8months now,can she extended the occupation order?(sorry for the long post)thank you everybody for reading your views or idea's will be helpful.thanks in advance.
      Non molestation orders (NMO) and Occupation Orders are for domestic problems, ie allegations or threats of abusive behaviour or violence. You should have only been forced to concede the Occupation Order or Undertaking if the threats/ abuse/ GBH were proven true. However, that being said, why did your partner feel she had to seek help from a women's refuge? If the judge believed that her allegations were not true it seems to me that the Undertaking was offered to you as a way to get you out of the council property to keep the peace. So, you could technically challenge it on a point of fact or point of law. The point of fact is that you were not a threat etc to justify either an NMO, OC, or the Undertaking alternative. The point of law is that the judge should not have give you the undertaking in accordance with law if you did nothing wrong in law, with the effect that you were effectively deprived of the right to enjoy your home.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: occupation order and undertaking

        Hello,I am so happy to hear comments,I had proved that I had done nothing wrong,I just don't understand how it even got to court,am I right in thinking she should have had doctors reports,or at least some police evidence,for 2 years running and documented history,if she has found another person I don't see how or why she can make up lies and have me thrown out of which was my home once,as the order says it's over in 9months,am I legally allowed back?and can she ask for an extended order,if so on what grounds,the council has said they see nothing in the paper work that says I ain't allowed back when it's over,it obviously embarrassing to have to go back,but I have no where else,can't afford even a room to rent,it's affected my health,and of course I now have trust issues,can she get an extension?been to the police they said they will acompany me on the day from the letters they have read,I feel as though this was judged incorrectly,I guess after 24 years she just wanted out,she also said I had space at my mums,and me mum wrote to the court saying she didnt,so here I am in a hostel,the council are saying I have a tenency so they are not going to house me,judges words were to her(i soupose your in a women's refuge to which she said yes,his words back were I thought so)if no allegations were found not to be true why was I made to take punishment,and as quoted deprived of my home and being around my children.thank you for reading and your replys.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: occupation order and undertaking

          Originally posted by jake67 View Post
          Hello,I am so happy to hear comments,I had proved that I had done nothing wrong,I just don't understand how it even got to court,am I right in thinking she should have had doctors reports,or at least some police evidence,for 2 years running and documented history,if she has found another person I don't see how or why she can make up lies and have me thrown out of which was my home once,as the order says it's over in 9months,am I legally allowed back?and can she ask for an extended order,if so on what grounds,the council has said they see nothing in the paper work that says I ain't allowed back when it's over,it obviously embarrassing to have to go back,but I have no where else,can't afford even a room to rent,it's affected my health,and of course I now have trust issues,can she get an extension?been to the police they said they will acompany me on the day from the letters they have read,I feel as though this was judged incorrectly,I guess after 24 years she just wanted out,she also said I had space at my mums,and me mum wrote to the court saying she didnt,so here I am in a hostel,the council are saying I have a tenency so they are not going to house me,judges words were to her(i soupose your in a women's refuge to which she said yes,his words back were I thought so)if no allegations were found not to be true why was I made to take punishment,and as quoted deprived of my home and being around my children.thank you for reading and your replys.
          No, Jake, unfortunately you have to keep to the terms of the Undertaking no matter what; you cannot return to your property at this point unless the court gives you permission to. What do the Undertaking's terms state about the 9 months word for word? The Undertaking has the same effect for you as the NMO or Occ. If you break the Undertaking's terms you could be arrested and then it could turn from a civil matter to a criminal one. When you say you're homeless, where have you been staying/ living, up to now? You imply you were living with your partner and children at the property at the time so it is likely the Occ. rather than an NMO was attempted by your partner which resulted in said Undertaking. It depends on the terms of the Undertaking as to when you can enter the property and not before.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: occupation order and undertaking

            Hi,I am replying to outlaw,I have no intention in going back within the time of the order,I have been living in a hostel for 8months,the orders are over in one month,I did get in touch with the court and they said I must put it in a letter why I feel as though it was not judged fairly,in my opinion if your not found guilty then the matter should be put to how it was before,now obviously the tenency is also in my name,for what I have been through the last 8months is not good for any person,ie:living in a hostel with people who are on drugs and people commiting suicide in their rooms,seeing people stab people,police at all hours,people coming in straight from prison.After being a family man with her for 24 years and never even raising my voice to her or the children,this was a shock living in a hostel.she even said on the paper work I was not violent,she said what did it was not letting son in the kitchen to play his laptop was the last straw.when I said,being honest there was not enough space,and I also said it's an area of food and water didnt want the laptop I bought for 300 pounds damaged.that's the way it stood.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: occupation order and undertaking

              Originally posted by jake67 View Post
              Hi,I am replying to outlaw,I have no intention in going back within the time of the order,I have been living in a hostel for 8months,the orders are over in one month,I did get in touch with the court and they said I must put it in a letter why I feel as though it was not judged fairly,in my opinion if your not found guilty then the matter should be put to how it was before,now obviously the tenency is also in my name,for what I have been through the last 8months is not good for any person,ie:living in a hostel with people who are on drugs and people commiting suicide in their rooms,seeing people stab people,police at all hours,people coming in straight from prison.After being a family man with her for 24 years and never even raising my voice to her or the children,this was a shock living in a hostel.she even said on the paper work I was not violent,she said what did it was not letting son in the kitchen to play his laptop was the last straw.when I said,being honest there was not enough space,and I also said it's an area of food and water didnt want the laptop I bought for 300 pounds damaged.that's the way it stood.
              "....not letting son in the kitchen to play his laptop was the last straw.when I said,being honest there was not enough space,and I also said it's an area of food and water didnt want the laptop I bought for 300 pounds damaged.that's the way it stood."

              Hmm, why was this the last straw, what had you done wrong in her view before this?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: occupation order and undertaking

                She bacically used to have a go at me for everything ie:not doing enough around the house,I know it seems impossible to believe but we only ever argued about 6 times in our relationship,to a point that we could keep count,because we got on so well,she did whatever she wanted I would always just put me head down and take it,so that's why for the 6times we argued I know it was for silly things like you said it was chicken tonight,and our 16 year old should not be allowed to go on holiday with her sixteen year old boyfriend to Norway by themselves,we were a happy family,just a shock when this came about,she even got jealous when my son wanted to play with me all the time,come on does it matter who plays with him,who he wants to play with,we are all one family,but I guess it did.as I said I was never ever horrible to any of my family,I'm guessing she has found someone else,and just wanted me out,even the judge said how come that was the last straw,so if no-one was able to understand her way of thinking,then why was I made homeless is my whole question,even the judge said make sure you let him see the children,I don't see him as danger to the children.it seems to me women's aid had helped her get a case against me by lying even to the point of saying I had gbh,that's one step before murder,what's going on,that was a lie,but they had to get it into court I guess,I proved I'd never been in trouble,but not contemt of court for her.he judge went on to say this is all just blah blah blah,his words,but yep I'm homeless.not fair in everyones opnion I have had been talking to in the last 8months,I was,am a secure tenent,council property,why should I have to give up my tenency if I haven't done anything even remotely near what one would describe as domestic violence,or a family breakdown,just because she says so,how has it come to the point I have to be in between living on the streets,sofa surfing,hostels,when found to be innocent till proven guilty.I was found not guilty and non molestion was thrown out.but occupation order was given for 9 months.what I am asking if anybody knows the law straight down the line then can she ask for an extension on the occupation order and doesshe have to take me to court again for it,I haven't been in touch with her for 8months,and kept to the rules.if she can get an extension what grounds can she get it on if I was not found to be violent,or abusef or aragunt or any danger to the children,I don't understand how she got it in the first place...thank you,my mind is so messed up from this,sorry it's a long one again,I am willing to reply and open because I want someone to see it for what it is have nothing to hide,just confused.I do know I can't win her love back that is up to her,but I just want to know the law and the rules.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: occupation order and undertaking

                  Originally posted by jake67 View Post
                  She bacically used to have a go at me for everything ie:not doing enough around the house,I know it seems impossible to believe but we only ever argued about 6 times in our relationship,to a point that we could keep count,because we got on so well,she did whatever she wanted I would always just put me head down and take it,so that's why for the 6times we argued I know it was for silly things like you said it was chicken tonight,and our 16 year old should not be allowed to go on holiday with her sixteen year old boyfriend to Norway by themselves,we were a happy family,just a shock when this came about,she even got jealous when my son wanted to play with me all the time,come on does it matter who plays with him,who he wants to play with,we are all one family,but I guess it did.as I said I was never ever horrible to any of my family,I'm guessing she has found someone else,and just wanted me out,even the judge said how come that was the last straw,so if no-one was able to understand her way of thinking,then why was I made homeless is my whole question,even the judge said make sure you let him see the children,I don't see him as danger to the children.it seems to me women's aid had helped her get a case against me by lying even to the point of saying I had gbh,that's one step before murder,what's going on,that was a lie,but they had to get it into court I guess,I proved I'd never been in trouble,but not contemt of court for her.he judge went on to say this is all just blah blah blah,his words,but yep I'm homeless.not fair in everyones opnion I have had been talking to in the last 8months,I was,am a secure tenent,council property,why should I have to give up my tenency if I haven't done anything even remotely near what one would describe as domestic violence,or a family breakdown,just because she says so,how has it come to the point I have to be in between living on the streets,sofa surfing,hostels,when found to be innocent till proven guilty.I was found not guilty and non molestion was thrown out.but occupation order was given for 9 months.what I am asking if anybody knows the law straight down the line then can she ask for an extension on the occupation order and doesshe have to take me to court again for it,I haven't been in touch with her for 8months,and kept to the rules.if she can get an extension what grounds can she get it on if I was not found to be violent,or abusef or aragunt or any danger to the children,I don't understand how she got it in the first place...thank you,my mind is so messed up from this,sorry it's a long one again,I am willing to reply and open because I want someone to see it for what it is have nothing to hide,just confused.I do know I can't win her love back that is up to her,but I just want to know the law and the rules.
                  Jake, do you have a copy of the undertaking?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: occupation order and undertaking

                    Yes, it says not to phone or to go to door or anyone I know to contact her,only contact her by email for the children and not to go to the house unless told by court,I think undertaking is due to finish as well.thank you outlaw.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: occupation order and undertaking

                      Originally posted by jake67 View Post
                      Yes, it says not to phone or to go to door or anyone I know to contact her,only contact her by email for the children and not to go to the house unless told by court,I think undertaking is due to finish as well.thank you outlaw.
                      Thanks for that, Jake. What are the terms of the Occupation Order? It seem very unlikely that your partner has grounds to apply for an Occupation Order extension, but she still could try with the Women's refuge help.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: occupation order and undertaking

                        The terms are the respondent shall leave the property by the xxxxx and only return to see the children,the order is made with notice to the respondent the order shall last tillxxxx well a just over a month to go,as u said if I was not found guilty of any offence then why was I deprived of my home,he also said I was not dangerous,and he actually said 6minths,same time my own solicitor said 9months,I could not believe what I was hearing,so he said ok 9months,and there was no one wrighting down anything that was said in court I thought someone had to be there to type in what was said.Outlaw what can women's refuge do to help her?I have been found innocent,I have had a grilling from my family,saying what have I done,I did get a feeling of relief when I was told by the judge he dosent belive anything on her statment,and he said I am only awarding her the house because of the children the 1996 act,that's the only reason,and I am not making you homeless.but I have been homeless,I had been advised by the courts own staff taking calls to write to somewhere to complain to the justice of judges because they had never heard of something like this.it also says on the order paper you have a right to apply to the court to change it cancel the order,what's that about?is that for me or her to do?thank you ever so much,and also want can women's refuge do for her,I am not a violent person,just a walk over as I'm told.but as I haven't seen my children for such a long time I do want to go back home feeling home sick,I will do anything,sink as low as I have to just to see my children,from the day they were born,I knew they are special can't stop thinking about the fun we had.got really close to them after having to go to great ormand street hospital with them.I have been told not to go back by friends and family,but if I have a right,and get my health up,and mentally know I aint going to say anything to her,then least I get to be with my children,some of us dads have done nothing wrong and I'm one of them.thank you again,sorry my spelling may not be up to scratch.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: occupation order and undertaking

                          Originally posted by jake67 View Post
                          The terms are the respondent shall leave the property by the xxxxx and only return to see the children,the order is made with notice to the respondent the order shall last tillxxxx well a just over a month to go,as u said if I was not found guilty of any offence then why was I deprived of my home,he also said I was not dangerous,and he actually said 6minths,same time my own solicitor said 9months,I could not believe what I was hearing,so he said ok 9months,and there was no one wrighting down anything that was said in court I thought someone had to be there to type in what was said.Outlaw what can women's refuge do to help her?I have been found innocent,I have had a grilling from my family,saying what have I done,I did get a feeling of relief when I was told by the judge he dosent belive anything on her statment,and he said I am only awarding her the house because of the children the 1996 act,that's the only reason,and I am not making you homeless.but I have been homeless,I had been advised by the courts own staff taking calls to write to somewhere to complain to the justice of judges because they had never heard of something like this.it also says on the order paper you have a right to apply to the court to change it cancel the order,what's that about?is that for me or her to do?thank you ever so much,and also want can women's refuge do for her,I am not a violent person,just a walk over as I'm told.but as I haven't seen my children for such a long time I do want to go back home feeling home sick,I will do anything,sink as low as I have to just to see my children,from the day they were born,I knew they are special can't stop thinking about the fun we had.got really close to them after having to go to great ormand street hospital with them.I have been told not to go back by friends and family,but if I have a right,and get my health up,and mentally know I aint going to say anything to her,then least I get to be with my children,some of us dads have done nothing wrong and I'm one of them.thank you again,sorry my spelling may not be up to scratch.
                          The judge has lots of powers with Occupation Orders, but awarding an Occ. Order just for the children is in my view a point of law error by the judge. You had the right to go back to court and challenge the Occ. Order.

                          "Family Law Act, section 33 (6):

                          (6)
                          In deciding whether to exercise its powers under subsection (3) and (if so) in what manner, the court shall have regard to all the circumstances including—
                          .
                          (a)
                          the housing needs and housing resources of each of the parties and of any relevant child;
                          .
                          (b)
                          the financial resources of each of the parties;
                          .
                          (c)
                          the likely effect of any order, or of any decision by the court not to exercise its powers under subsection (3), on the health, safety or well-being of the parties and of any relevant child; and
                          .
                          (d)
                          the conduct of the parties in relation to each other and otherwise.
                          .
                          (7)
                          If it appears to the court that the applicant or any relevant child is likely to suffer significant harm attributable to conduct of the respondent if an order under this section containing one or more of the provisions mentioned in subsection (3) is not made, the court shall make the order unless it appears to it that—
                          .
                          (a)
                          the respondent or any relevant child is likely to suffer significant harm if the order is made; and
                          .
                          (b)
                          the harm likely to be suffered by the respondent or child in that event is as great as, or greater than, the harm attributable to conduct of the respondent which is likely to be suffered by the applicant or child if the order is not made."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: occupation order and undertaking

                            Wow that's a lot of things he had power over,as he only made it for 9months what does that say in itself?he has caused me great inconvenience,living on the streets,sofa surfing,hostels,even had to sleep in a friend's car,at the end of the day she didn't even say anything about the children,it was all about her,I am an adult an old one at that,how can I make it so that if I go back she can't just make up anything and have me thrown out again,it says on the paper work n.m.o.has been discharged that was done at the court the day we went 8months ago,Outlaw how would I go about challenging this order,or should I let it take it's course then go back after a day or 2 when the orders are over,she may walk out,I did speak to my daughter 8months ago and she said to me mums confused,now um guessing she may have been confused that it's only for 9months,I don't know I didn't ask my daughter anything just guessing now.so to me is it the judge was looking for a way to give her the home even after he found me not guilty.so it seems as thou I can go back,I would like to know on what grounds could she get another ooccupation order if I haven't done anything wrong,will I have to go to court again,or can she extended the one she has at the moment with no notice to me?thank you so much,I just feel as though I have been not treated fairly.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: occupation order and undertaking

                              Originally posted by jake67 View Post
                              Wow that's a lot of things he had power over,as he only made it for 9months what does that say in itself?he has caused me great inconvenience,living on the streets,sofa surfing,hostels,even had to sleep in a friend's car,at the end of the day she didn't even say anything about the children,it was all about her,I am an adult an old one at that,how can I make it so that if I go back she can't just make up anything and have me thrown out again,it says on the paper work n.m.o.has been discharged that was done at the court the day we went 8months ago,Outlaw how would I go about challenging this order,or should I let it take it's course then go back after a day or 2 when the orders are over,she may walk out,I did speak to my daughter 8months ago and she said to me mums confused,now um guessing she may have been confused that it's only for 9months,I don't know I didn't ask my daughter anything just guessing now.so to me is it the judge was looking for a way to give her the home even after he found me not guilty.so it seems as thou I can go back,I would like to know on what grounds could she get another ooccupation order if I haven't done anything wrong,will I have to go to court again,or can she extended the one she has at the moment with no notice to me?thank you so much,I just feel as though I have been not treated fairly.
                              Does the Occup. Order actually state '9 months' ? If it does, your partner may try and get an extension. You should have a date on the Occup. Order when you can go back to the property.

                              Comment

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