Compass debt company

[Hakster]

Re: Compass debt company

Hello, it's been a good couple of weeks since looking at what's been happening. I've managed to approach my creditors directly and set up repayment plans myself. Is there any news on if how and when we may get our money back-or is this a crystal ball, how long is a bit of string question?

[Wingco]

Re: Compass debt company - Timescales

Hello, it's been a good couple of weeks since looking at what's been happening. I've managed to approach my creditors directly and set up repayment plans myself. Is there any news on if how and when we may get our money back-or is this a crystal ball, how long is a bit of string question?

Hi Hakster
The guidance from the liquidation meeting and the liquidator was that he would report to the committee (5 of us) at around 6 months. The liquidation process is very complex and we have to let AABRS take things in their stride. In a way, no news is good news but don't hold your breath!! A similar DMC case, Bournes is still unresolved 3 years later.
The list of creditors is vast and there was only around £22,000 in the clients' accounts which worked out as an average of £11 for each Compass clients but there are other creditors ahead of us in the queue for payouts. But there are other sources of money that the liquidator may be able to 'access' in due course.
As soon as I hear anything, I will post on here but it will be September at the earliest, I imagine.
Wingco

[Hakster]

Re: Compass debt company

Thanks Wingo, as mentioned it's a don't hold our breath situation. Like many and already mentioned, not exactly skipping through the fields at the moment but let's just wait and see.

[EXC]

Re: Compass debt company

''How did Amanda Solloway’s husband lose so much money?''

https://derbynews.org.uk/2016/05/16/...so-much-money/

[Openlaw15]

Re: Compass debt company - Timescales

Hi Hakster
The guidance from the liquidation meeting and the liquidator was that he would report to the committee (5 of us) at around 6 months. The liquidation process is very complex and we have to let AABRS take things in their stride. In a way, no news is good news but don't hold your breath!! A similar DMC case, Bournes is still unresolved 3 years later.
The list of creditors is vast and there was only around £22,000 in the clients' accounts which worked out as an average of £11 for each Compass clients but there are other creditors ahead of us in the queue for payouts. But there are other sources of money that the liquidator may be able to 'access' in due course.
As soon as I hear anything, I will post on here but it will be September at the earliest, I imagine.
Wingco

When Parliament had a whiff of fraud, ie the exaggerated expenses accounts they did their best to hide it under immunity law. 'Why did you let the police in, didn't you know that we have Parliament privilege', since about the time of the Great London Fire in the 17th Century when the King's power transferred to a Parliament, one made of privileged land owners (the would be Lords) and those who represent the normal folk/ electorate, the Commons.

Fraud is defined as a 'misrepresentation' for a gain or another's loss: Fraud Act 2006. Exaggerating the pot's fund, misadvising people that the interest was frozen whilst the directors dipped into the pots like an avid child dips his spoon in their ice-cream. Even Houdini couldn't have made Compass Debt Counsellors (counselled their own bank account more like) pot, apparently worth 2 million, disappear, 'now you see it, now you don't.' Why aren't the media reporting it is fraud? What happened to a government being transparent...a business woman and partner to said company's former director...who just happened to be a senior government, alas 'see no evil, report no evil, spend money in ignorance.' Isn't this negligence?

If these facts were a benefit claimant who committed let's say a fraction of that at £25,000, the fraud police would be on them like fly on poo, never mind the company's alleged 2 million losses, the tabloids and the media would be regurgitating the story like a DJ's stuck record. Commoners' stories sell to promote the 'how would you feel if your hard earned taxes fund some state benefit lavish lifestyle, well this is what this fraudulent benefit claimant did. One rule for the elites and another for everybody else it seems. Welcome to 'Broken Britain;' ...We're all In This Together, voice the millionaires or the untouchables in government or heads of financial regulation bodies. One journal I read stated, the elite go in one door, say government and out into another door, head of large corporation. It's like theatre and the actors roles in the influential society, in that Eton et al provides the skills to navigate the murky world of power, corruption and control. There is an Oxbridge for elites and an Oxbridge for everybody else, the apparent meritocracy.

[Wingco]

Re: Compass debt company

''How did Amanda Solloway’s husband lose so much money?''

https://derbynews.org.uk/2016/05/16/...so-much-money/

It wasn't easy; you have to buy Range Rovers and Porches and go on expensive holidays. But with determination and a little animal cunning, and a very 'helpful' accountant you can get through a lot of your clients' money in just a few years.
:car:
Wingco

[Openlaw15]

Re: Compass debt company

It wasn't easy; you have to buy Range Rovers and Porches and go on expensive holidays. But with determination and a little animal cunning, and a very 'helpful' accountant you can get through a lot of your clients' money in just a few years.
:car:
Wingco

Karl Marx would have expected a riot by now, instead we so docile and civil that we listen to the official attempts at legitimising corruption in their expensive suits, 'it's alright, we can do this, the law allows us to.' Next time, just don't trust us! 'Lessons to be learnt' indeed.

[Wingco]

Re: Compass debt company - Timescales

I'm confident that the FRAUD case is going to be the likely outcome and it will be a main focus of the Committee when we get our first update (September?). We need definite feedback as to where we are with going for a civil prosecution for fraud.
Wingco

[Openlaw15]

Re: Compass debt company - Timescales

I'm confident that the FRAUD case is going to be the likely outcome and it will be a main focus of the Committee when we get our first update (september?). We need definite feedback as to where we are with going for a civil prosecution for fraud.
Wingco

Have you enquired whether the police or CPS will prosecute as public interest? Civil prosecutions are rare and expensive. If you could get a fraud conviction or misappropriation conviction for theft type crimes etc, you can make a proprietary claims (against property) or damages for losses. You may have such rights to trace (legal right to locate) assets with a view to a claim. Even charges of said could be enough for proprietary remedies. It just depends on the disposal outcomes ie there was sufficient grounds for the convictions but the CPS decided not to, or the company's lawyers argued a technicality.

Those directors will at some point be instructed by their lawyers to play 'hide the parcel.' They will be told to put land in their partner's name, and or sell the property, bank the money in foreign countries, same with stocks, in short actions will likely be taken to avoid proprietary claims. I wouldn't sit around for too long. You could probably make claims against their partners too if they assisted with misappropriations, or received benefits/ goods through 'dishonest receipt.' It could even be criminal indirectly, ie aiding and abetting if their spouses/ other persons either 'assisted', procured or counselled' the misappropriation or fraud.

[Wingco]

Re: Compass debt company - Timescales

Have you enquired whether the police or CPS will prosecute as public interest? Civil prosecutions are rare and expensive. If you could get a fraud conviction or misappropriation conviction for theft type crimes etc, you can make a proprietary claims (against property) or damages for losses. You may have such rights to trace (legal right to locate) assets with a view to a claim. Even charges of said could be enough for proprietary remedies. It just depends on the disposal outcomes ie there was sufficient grounds for the convictions but the CPS decided not to, or the company's lawyers argued a technicality.

Those directors will at some point be instructed by their lawyers to play 'hide the parcel.' They will be told to put land in their partner's name, and or sell the property, bank the money in foreign countries, same with stocks, in short actions will likely be taken to avoid proprietary claims. I wouldn't sit around for too long. You could probably make claims against their partners too if they assisted with misappropriations, or received benefits/ goods through 'dishonest receipt.' It could even be criminal indirectly, ie aiding and abetting if their spouses/ other persons either 'assisted', procured or counselled' the misappropriation or fraud.

I have a very good friend who is a lawyer and she thinks it is extremely difficult to prove although superficially it looks obvious to me. I will hang on for a meeting with AABRS in September and see where they are; apparently, they are legally obliged to report Fraud - I wonder if they will?
I imagine any 'hide the parcel' will have happened a long time ago! But I also bet other 'relatives' will be implicated.
Wingco

[Openlaw15]

Re: Compass debt company - Timescales

I have a very good friend who is a lawyer and she thinks it is extremely difficult to prove although superficially it looks obvious to me. I will hang on for a meeting with AABRS in September and see where they are; apparently, they are legally obliged to report Fraud - I wonder if they will?
I imagine any 'hide the parcel' will have happened a long time ago! But I also bet other 'relatives' will be implicated.
Wingco

There was a trust as it said in express terms the company holds debtors monies on trust. Whether it was a sham trust is irrelevant the law holds them as having a trust if they expressly create a trust. Was a trust created, were the formalities dealt with and was it constitutionalised, ie did title (nominally) pass from the debtors to the trustee's of the company, ie the directors? Was there a trust instrument? The law to constitute a trust can be by express (writing) declaration: ie a term in a contract, or appoint another, or self declaratory. If there's a trust there are trustees for those funds who owe all debtors persons duties. Ergo it is potentially ie misappropriation, a breach of trust as they (the directors) misappropriated trust fund/ assets that did not belong to them.

Fraud and misappropriation are different the first may not be theft necessarily but the last one is. When you say your friend is a very good lawyer, are they also a good criminal lawyer and a good trustee lawyer?

[Wingco]

Re: Compass debt company - Timescales

There was a trust as it said in express terms the company holds debtors monies on trust. Whether it was a sham trust is irrelevant the law holds them as having a trust if they expressly create a trust. Was a trust created, were the formalities dealt with and was it constitutionalised, ie did title (nominally) pass from the debtors to the trustee's of the company, ie the directors? Was there a trust instrument? The law to constitute a trust can be by express (writing) declaration: ie a term in a contract, or appoint another, or self declaratory. If there's a trust there are trustees for those funds who owe all debtors persons duties. Ergo it is potentially ie misappropriation, a breach of trust as they (the directors) misappropriated trust fund/ assets that did not belong to them.

Fraud and misappropriation are different the first may not be theft necessarily but the last one is. When you say your friend is a very good lawyer, are they also a good criminal lawyer and a good trustee lawyer?

Thanks Openlaw - that's very informative and helpful.
The big problem with the Compass Debt Counselling case is that it doesn't say anything in my contract about putting money in trust, an escrow account or a client account. Those whom I have spoken to who 'think' they have a 'pot' I don't believe can prove it. I think our only hope would be that so many people believed they had a pot which would be used to clear their debt through F&FS agreements. If any Compass clients have written proof of a client pot, it would help us hugely to take on a Fraud or Misappropriation case.
My Lawyer friend is not a specialist in trustee or criminal law, more IP and International Law, but she has practised criminal law, although not for many years. She does however have access to a wide spectrum of legal brains which could prove useful for general advice - in this case, we will need a criminal/trustee lawyer for sure.
Wingco:judgey:

[Openlaw15]

Re: Compass debt company - Timescales

Thanks Openlaw - that's very informative and helpful.
The big problem with the Compass Debt Counselling case is that it doesn't say anything in my contract about putting money in trust, an escrow account or a client account. Those whom I have spoken to who 'think' they have a 'pot' I don't believe can prove it. I think our only hope would be that so many people believed they had a pot which would be used to clear their debt through F&FS agreements. If any Compass clients have written proof of a client pot, it would help us hugely to take on a Fraud or Misappropriation case.
My Lawyer friend is not a specialist in trustee or criminal law, more IP and International Law, but she has practised criminal law, although not for many years. She does however have access to a wide spectrum of legal brains which could prove useful for general advice - in this case, we will need a criminal/trustee lawyer for sure.
Wingco:judgey:

I posted the information below at post number 10. I located the information below about 13 March 2016 from Sharon's long post of the for the former Company, Compass Debt Counselling: http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...hlight=compass

"Compass Debt Counsellors - Terms of Business .......
......

• How we hold your money

.......Payments made by you which will be paid to your creditors are held in a client trust account together with money we hold for our other clients.

• We will only take our management fee when we make payments to your creditors.
• Any money held for you which is not due to creditors or to us under this agreement, may be paid to you or to your order through a UK bank account, in your name or (where you hold a joint account) in your name and the name of the other person.
• If there is any money which we hold for you and we are for any reason unable to pay it to you in line with these terms, we will write to you to ask for your instructions for payment. "

It looks like the bank account is protected from the administrators as they're held on an express trust. Therefore the Company was a trustee for your money prior to insolvency so now the liquidator/ administrator/ insolvency practitioner acquires the trustee title to the company's trust. The problem you have though is the trust is seemingly not separate accounts so unless there is a way of identifying mixed funds it could be a problem. However, it seems more than likely each credit in the bank account will have its own unique number to identify each person who held money in these accounts. "

[Cookiemonster]

Re: Compass debt company

I was drawn here due to issues with Abbey Solicitors and their relationship to Compass after their closure, I won't go into further details in respect of that, but I believe that it's better to declare your position. I am not a Solicitor, nor do I accept any responsibility for the outcome of whatever may come of what I write and you should seek proper legal consultation before acting on the information received based on what I've set out below: -
It appears to me that you may have an issue proving misappropriation of funds in the first place. What you need to prove is that funds were used towards this infamous 'pot' for payments of settlements to creditors outside of the contracted fee payments and creditor payments.
My suggestion is as follows: -
Your creditors will have received a financial statement, setting out the contributions that you were paying towards your debt management plan (DMP), the creditors to whom payments were made from these contributions and the fees that were paid.
I'd suggest approaching your creditors or their appointed agent and asking for a copy, if they need an explanation as to why, give it to them - they're aware of the compass debacle as much as anyone else is and would love to see them get their just desserts.
The statements can then be used, along with the T&C's that have handily been posted, to work out what portion of money has not been distributed and kept off of these statements. This would be the contribution towards the pot that has been referenced so many times.
The pot and any financial contribution towards this has not been included in the statements, but you should see a difference between your declared financial contribution and what you actually paid them, or a difference between their declared fees and the agreed fees.
Lastly, and this is just my HUGE assumption regarding the issues at hand, the FCA's rules required debt management companies to heavily tighten up the way they acted, as well as become more transparent to creditors. This included declaring monies retained on behalf of their customers. Obviously Compass could not do this, and it would appear that they hoped to quietly slip away into the night.
Keep up the good work guys.

[Wingco]

Re: Compass debt company

hi Cookiemonster.
There are quite a few of the Compass clients who have definite statements showing the value of their 'pot'. But many of us just have a vague statement although, as you say, it is possible to calculate the difference between the amount paid to Compass, the amount paid to the creditors and the allocation to Compass' fees. I believe that for many of us, this calculation is fruitless as Compass will say the 'surplus went towards their fees and until the 10% fee is covered - £9000 in my case - there was no pot despite what we were told verbally. Clearly, many others will have written proof of their pots and that money has largely (except for £22,000) disappeared.
The Liquidators will be well aware of the huge deficit in the clients' pot account and that could lead to fraud or other criminal charges. The Liquidator is obliged to report illegal activity by the Directors. When we 'meet' with the Liquidators in a few months times, no doubt the missing money will be top of our list of questions we will need answering - but it is a very slow process. Watch this Blog.:doggieyes:

You are undoubtedly right about Compass being unable to meet the FCA's plans to tighten the rules for DMCs - far too late, as it happens. Compass were certainly not the first to 'lose' clients' pot money.
Wingco