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Estate accounts refused

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  • Estate accounts refused

    Hi,
    My brother appears to refuse to accept our late mother's estate accounts. The reason is not entirely clear and he has never produced a coherent, logical statement or begun any legal proceedings, although it seems he believes some personal items were 'sold' by other family members without his permission. Long story, but hopefully the key points are:
    Our father died first intestate; mother having to go into full time dementia care. Everything was joint, so passed to mother.

    I applied for COP, and later, LOA, for mother; all siblings agreed to me doing so. I appointed a solicitor to carry these out, and paid approx. half the fees out of my own pocket. I communicated regularly, mostly in writing, keeping all up to date with proceedings, applications etc. I applied for all benefits, closed accounts, had outstanding bills paid etc. etc. Mother then died (also intestate) before the COP application was complete. I then volunteered to administrate the estate, again with no objection.
    Some items had indeed been sold, with my agreement (as executor), and funds forwarded to the account with the solicitor set up for the purpose, bearing in mind that the care fees were quoted at around £20,000 per year, and any funds would go towards this bill. Parent's house was eventually sold and funds added to the estate.

    Following numerous delaying tactics from my brother, all adding to the solicitor's fees, the accounts were drawn up, the necessary proof of ID produced by everyone else except the brother, and a truly exasperated solicitor by this time decided to distribute to everyone except him, and wash his hands of the whole business. The advice was that I open an account as 'Administrator of...' to which I am signatory, into which the brother's share could be paid, which I did, and which he can then receive if he ever decides he wants it.
    Questions:
    -How long can I realistically be expected to 'sit on' this account?
    -This presumably forms part of my estate?
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Estate accounts refused

    [MENTION=141]enaid[/MENTION] or [MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] might be able to advise (I've tagged them)xx
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

    ~~~~~

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
    But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

    Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Estate accounts refused

      Hi and welcome
      My first reaction would be to say that you need to maintain the account indefinitely.
      You are holding the money in trust, and so it never becomes part of your estate, unless given to you by the beneficiary (your sibling)

      For your own protection you should consider persuading one of your other siblings to become a joint signatory to the account.
      Both required to administer the account.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Estate accounts refused

        Thanks for the answer.
        However, I don't think there's much chance of him *giving* it to me! (even though he's made it clear he doesn't want it). 'Indefinitely'? If it doesn't form part of my estate, how is it dealt with?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Estate accounts refused

          Can you persuade him to renounce the legacy if he has no intention of accepting it.
          You say he has made it clear he doesn't want it? In what way has he done this?
          "In general law, a beneficiary has the right to
          • renounce a gift made to them under a Will,
          • disclaim their interest under an intestacy.

          A beneficiary may disclaim by written disclaimer or by conduct and the disclaimer must apply to the whole of the benefit. Critically, the beneficiary must not have received any benefit from the property being disclaimed, although they may accept one gift in a Will and disclaim another.
          A disclaimer must be unconditional and the beneficiary cannot redirect the interest that is being disclaimed. The disclaimed benefit falls back into residue and follows the devolution of the estate accordingly.
          A beneficiary who has disclaimed an interest under a will may subsequently retract their disclaimer provided no-one has altered their position in reliance on the disclaimer."

          Quote from "http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/ihtm35161.htm"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Estate accounts refused

            Originally posted by des8 View Post
            Can you persuade him to renounce the legacy if he has no intention of accepting it.
            You say he has made it clear he doesn't want it? In what way has he done this?
            "In general law, a beneficiary has the right to
            • renounce a gift made to them under a Will,
            • disclaim their interest under an intestacy.

            A beneficiary may disclaim by written disclaimer or by conduct and the disclaimer must apply to the whole of the benefit. Critically, the beneficiary must not have received any benefit from the property being disclaimed, although they may accept one gift in a Will and disclaim another.
            A disclaimer must be unconditional and the beneficiary cannot redirect the interest that is being disclaimed. The disclaimed benefit falls back into residue and follows the devolution of the estate accordingly.
            A beneficiary who has disclaimed an interest under a will may subsequently retract their disclaimer provided no-one has altered their position in reliance on the disclaimer."

            Quote from "http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/ihtm35161.htm"
            Where does it say by Conduct Des....this is not the law this is the IR's interpretation of through statutory guidance no doubt, which is an altogether different thing from the law.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Estate accounts refused

              Originally posted by Openlaw15 View Post
              Where does it say by Conduct Des....this is not the law this is the IR's interpretation of through statutory guidance no doubt, which is an altogether different thing from the law.
              http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ihtmanual/ihtm35161.htm
              In general law, a beneficiary has the right to
              • renounce a gift made to them under a Will,

              • disclaim their interest under an intestacy.


              A beneficiary may disclaim by written disclaimer or by conduct and the disclaimer must apply to the whole of the benefit. Critically, the beneficiary must not have received any benefit from the property being disclaimed, although they may accept one gift in a Will and disclaim another.

              A disclaimer must be unconditional and the beneficiary cannot redirect the interest that is being disclaimed. The disclaimed benefit falls back into residue and follows the devolution of the estate accordingly.

              A beneficiary who has disclaimed an interest under a will may subsequently retract their disclaimer provided no-one has altered their position in reliance on the disclaimer.
              Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

              It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

              recte agens confido

              ~~~~~

              Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

              I can be emailed if you need my help loading pictures/documents to your thread. My email address is Kati@legalbeagles.info
              But please include a link to your thread so I know who you are.

              Specialist advice can be sought via our sister site JustBeagle

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Estate accounts refused

                Thank you Katy, but Intestacy law is complex. Conduct may be relevant but it's not a deal breaker by any means. If there were a legitimate interest by the brother/ beneficiary it would not be a conduct issue. Property is different and only some property automatically goes to the spouse, not everything. So, unless we know what the estate entails it's not known whether the seemingly angry brother had any rights to the property. We also do not know what the gifts were promised to the brother, which if could be proven would stand up in court.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Estate accounts refused

                  Mother died intestate, spouse already passed away.
                  What rights would brother have to any property?
                  Is it not for the administrator to collect all assets, realise value and distribute it according to intestacy rules?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Estate accounts refused

                    Originally posted by des8 View Post
                    Mother died intestate, spouse already passed away.
                    What rights would brother have to any property?
                    Is it not for the administrator to collect all assets, realise value and distribute it according to intestacy rules?
                    "decided to distribute to everyone except him."

                    He is a blood relative. The administrator is essentially a trustee and holds the estate on trust for the beneficiaries (blood relatives): Trustee Act 2000. A solicitor is a legal professional and by distributing to everyone else but the brother - a close blood relative - it could be an abuse of trustee powers. The brother could potentially sue the lawyer for losses.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Estate accounts refused

                      The brother has lost nothing.
                      The poster is still holding his brother's share.
                      The brother appears to have refused to accept it.
                      The poster wants to know what he should do with his brother's share.
                      The suggestions have been:
                      1) negotiates with brother
                      2) keep brother's share in an account under dual control for as long as it takes
                      3) explore possibility that brother has by his conduct renounced his inheritance

                      Please explain where there has been a possible abuse of trustees powers (was the solicitor even a trustee or only acting on behalf of trustees?)
                      and how the brother could possibly sue anyone if he is refusing to accept his share.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Estate accounts refused

                        Just a thought

                        Would it be lawful to write to the brother, asking for a definite decision within (reasonable time) - bit like an 'unless' order?
                        CAVEAT LECTOR

                        This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                        You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                        Cohen, Herb


                        There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                        gets his brain a-going.
                        Phelps, C. C.


                        "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                        The last words of John Sedgwick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Estate accounts refused

                          Originally posted by des8 View Post
                          The brother has lost nothing.
                          The poster is still holding his brother's share.
                          The brother appears to have refused to accept it.
                          The poster wants to know what he should do with his brother's share.
                          The suggestions have been:
                          1) negotiates with brother
                          2) keep brother's share in an account under dual control for as long as it takes
                          3) explore possibility that brother has by his conduct renounced his inheritance

                          Please explain where there has been a possible abuse of trustees powers (was the solicitor even a trustee or only acting on behalf of trustees?)
                          and how the brother could possibly sue anyone if he is refusing to accept his share.
                          Technically, a non appointed trustee could be made a trustee by his or her acts in administrating someone else's property: Taylor v Davies [1920] AC 636

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Estate accounts refused

                            So solicitor possibly a "constructive" trustee, but that does not explain how the brother refusing his share gives him, the brother, cause to sue.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Estate accounts refused

                              Originally posted by des8 View Post
                              So solicitor possibly a "constructive" trustee, but that does not explain how the brother refusing his share gives him, the brother, cause to sue.
                              If there is a bank account on behalf of the awkward brother, (when he comes to his senses can spend it), and this way the OP has protected himself.

                              Comment

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