Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

[ths01]

Hi All.

This is my first post. I've joined as I've been dealing with a 'family dispute' during 2015, and recently received an unexpected letter from EOS regarding a 'Look again' / 'Grattan Plc' account under my name.

The background

• I have only ever held a Very and Jacamo account in the past. Both were always paid on time, and are now closed.
• I pay all of my bills on time, including credit cards and have no debt of my own.
• My girlfriend suffers with Bipolar and has run up debt in her name.
• Earlier this year I discovered during 2013/14 she opened catalogue accounts in my name.
• I discussed the issue with those companies at that time - some debt was transferred to my girlfriend and we are now dealing with this via CAP (in her name).

EOS

• In November, I received details of a new debt from EOS.
• The debt relates to an account opened in 2013 with 'Look Again' (part of Grattan).
• Payments have been made on the account, however, the final payment was made in August 2014.
• The address of the account is my girlfriend's address in 2013. I never lived there.
• The outstanding amount as advised by EOS is £691.97
• I had never received any information pertaining to this account prior to that received from EOS in November (probably because I have never lived at the address the Grattan account was registered!)
• I have been traced at my current address (since February 2014; in 2013 my address was also different to where the account was opened)

Action taken to date

• I have requested information, citing CCA. A £1 Postal Order was sent.
• I have advised of the issues earlier this year.
• I have advised I currently do not acknowledge this debt and they should provide the relevant CA, deed of assignment etc. to satisfy me the debt is mine.
• I have requested EOS provide details RE where items have been sent and who made the payment in August 2014.
• Although extremely likely this is linked to my girlfriend, as noted earlier, due to mental health issues there is a slight chance it is just fraud (only very slight).

Response from EOS

• They have acknowledgement my request
• They have provided a 'Statement of Account'. It notes it has been issued on behalf of Freemans Grattan Holding as required by the Consumer Credit Act. It asks I contact them on 03443729696 to settle any outstanding balance and to stop any further recover action being taken.
• The 'Statement of Account' has only an Opening Balance, Closing Balance, and a deduction of £1, noted as 'Postal Order'. It looks as EOS have paid off £1 from this account.

Advice Needed!

• This is a sensitive matter. I do not want to report this as fraud, particularly due to the mental health issues which we are working through.
• I have asked for CCA, and other information. However, the £1 Postal Order has been paid against the account in my name.
• I'm concerned EOS feel the 'Statement of Account' is a sufficient response to my CCA request.
• What should be my next step?
• Do EOS have to satisfy me that the 'Grattan' account is in my name and opened by me?
• How do I get around the 'fraud' problem?
• It feels like this is going to have to be dealt with by way of payment, but due to my girlfriend's mental health issues and her current debt, I have little spare income to pick this up (i.e. I pay all the bills and cover most other costs).
• Due to my girlfriend's mental health issues, can any interest, admin fees, etc. be written off - or can I request this be the case?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[nemesis45]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

Good evening ths welcome to LB. [MENTION=49370]Kati[/MENTION] has asked me to take a look at this for you.

You are right in challenging these alleged debts, your
girlfriends mental health conditions do not make you liable
for accounts fraudulently opened.

One point that hit me straight away the £1 statutory fee allocated to the account
is wrong ans needs to be challenged, quite often a creditor will do this so that the
Limitation Act 6 year " Clock " is reset lengthening the time available to pursue a debt.

The catalogue provider has to prove that you opened the account, benefitted from the
account made payments to the account.

First job:

A Formal Letter denial of any liability for any of the debts, e.g. " I am not now nor ever have been a customer
of xxxxxxx, I have never at anytime placed and orders with or received good from xxxxxxx all /any liability
is denied.
I have never resided at the addresses stated on the alleged accounts and have never signed any form of
agreement for the account.
The Statement provide by EOS is meaningless and the misappropriated statutory fee needs to be removed
from the account. Reiterate that you require copy of the agreement relating to this account having paid the required
fee.

You also mention a Deed of Assignment this is the contract between a creditor and the debt purchaser and
is considered a confidential commercially sensitive document and is not in reality going to assist you in any way.

It is difficult I know because of the underlying health issues but I think you will have to disclose some information
you as said have no liability for the debt (s) and should not pay them.

nem

[ths01]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

Thank you Nem. This is much appreciated.

I will write something up, as you have suggested and send this to EOS in the next few days. I will post an update if I receive anything back.

A couple of questions though:

1. If they continue to request payment, but I don't want to report this as fraud, could they say I was a willing participant, or push the cost to my girlfriend?

2. In your experience, have you known claims like this to be squashed due to mental health issues?

Thanks,
THS01

[nemesis45]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

Thank you Nem. This is much appreciated.

I will write something up, as you have suggested and send this to EOS in the next few days. I will post an update if I receive anything back.

A couple of questions though:

1. If they continue to request payment, but I don't want to report this as fraud, could they say I was a willing participant, or push the cost to my girlfriend?

2. In your experience, have you known claims like this to be squashed due to mental health issues?

Thanks,
THS01

Hi yes someone who does not have the capacity to for instance realise the consequences of their actions should
not be pursued especially if the pursuit of the debt is likely to detrimentally affect the individuals mental health.
Such is the world today there are many such situations this.
You are not and cannot be held responsible for matters of which to have no knowledge.

nem

[Debt Camel]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

I think you should establish what is on current fraud databases about you. There may be nothing, but I think you need to know, see http://debtcamel.co.uk/name-fraud-database/. Also if you haven't done this already, you need to apply for CIFAS protective registration. This will make it harder for your girlfriend to open any more accounts in your name. better safe than sorry!

If they continue to request payment, but I don't want to report this as fraud, could they say I was a willing participant, or push the cost to my girlfriend?

The problem is that they are already aware of your girlfriend as being the likely person that opened this account if you didn't. If you are hoping they are going to take your word for it that she has mental health problems and just drop the debt and not chase her for it, this seems very unlikely to happen. Why should they?

2. In your experience, have you known claims like this to be squashed due to mental health issues?

I have never know a case where a debt was squashed due to mental health problems where the person with those problems didn't have to provide medical evidence, often a DMHEF form http://www.malg.org.uk/wp-content/up...2015-final.pdf

Also it is not that easy to argue that a debt should be written off because of bi-polar: you and I and everyone else not suffering from the condition may think buying whatever it was on credit was totally stupid. That doesn't necessarily mean that your girlfriend wasn't mentally capable of taking the decision to purchase on credit - it just means that we disagree with the decision. Of course if your "bi-polar" description was just shorthand for a complicated and severe mental health problem, then you may be able to make the case.

If her debts are already being handled by CAP, I am not sure why the best solution wouldn't just be to add this to the pile?

[ths01]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

Hi Debt Camel.

Thanks for your reply.

Adding to the pile is a definite possibility. I've already discussed with CIFAS and now have protective registration.

I'm aiming to do the following:

1. Reiterate to EOS that I do not acknowledge the debt
2. Advise I cannot and should not be held responsible for something I had no knowledge of
3. Demand they use the £1 postal order correctly and remove the £1 from the statement they provided
4. Demand the CCA information
5. Advise of girlfriend's mental health issues
6. Will discuss with CAP/my girlfriend about transferring this debt, but only once I'm sure it exists, and she was the culprit (which is probable based on mental health issues in 2013/14).

Thanks,
THS01

[Debt Camel]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

Demand they use the £1 postal order correctly and remove the £1 from the statement they provided

To be honest I wouldn't bother with this at this point in time. The debt is many years away from being statute barred and you have got a complicated enough process that you want to get through now and this is going to involve some co-operation from the creditor. The most likely result is that the debt ends up being transferred to your girlfriend and then either it gets rolled into her DMP with CAP or she opts for a Debt Relief Order - here this £1 payment will be completely irrelevant. You can always pick up the £1 point at a later stage if it seems relevant.

[nemesis45]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

The £1 payment ( Stat fee) will be a problem later, it should be challenged.
Yes you do challenge EOS on liability be positive and robust in doing so.
Yes reiterate that EOS is in breach of the CCA request and that you are
reporting their conduct to the FCA.
The mental health aspect is going to need care I agree, but it does not
and should not make you liable for fraudulent accounts.
A DRO is a good idea but you must be sure all debts are included so there
is nothing to come back later to bite you.

nem

[ths01]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

An update. I recently sent a letter as recommended, this advising I do not acknowledge the debt; requesting they provide the CCA, to correct the postal order, etc.

This letter has crossed as today I received the following:
1. A letter advising an account was opened with 'Look Again' on 07/04/2014 (a previous letter stated 2013), and that all orders were placed online and goods delivered to my current address. This letter says the account is put on hold and I have 14 days to arrange a method of payment with them.
2. Copies of a 'Look Again' statements from April, May, June and July.

I haven't received a CCA from them to this point. However, it is clear that my girlfriend opened the account due to the items on the statement.

I had no knowledge of this particular account until EOS contacted me. But now I know this was opened by my girlfriend I wonder how I can best dispute that I had any knowledge (again I reiterate I was not aware until EOS contacted me).

What should my next step be?

Thanks in advance.

[nemesis45]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

An update. I recently sent a letter as recommended, this advising I do not acknowledge the debt; requesting they provide the CCA, to correct the postal order, etc.

This letter has crossed as today I received the following:
1. A letter advising an account was opened with 'Look Again' on 07/04/2014 (a previous letter stated 2013), and that all orders were placed online and goods delivered to my current address. This letter says the account is put on hold and I have 14 days to arrange a method of payment with them.
2. Copies of a 'Look Again' statements from April, May, June and July.

I haven't received a CCA from them to this point. However, it is clear that my girlfriend opened the account due to the items on the statement.

I had no knowledge of this particular account until EOS contacted me. But now I know this was opened by my girlfriend I wonder how I can best dispute that I had any knowledge (again I reiterate I was not aware until EOS contacted me).

What should my next step be?

Thanks in advance.

Good morning ths,
I suggest a short sharp reply along the lines of:

Ref: Use theirs:

Sir/madam,

I refer to your letter dated.......................: I refer you to my request for a copy of the regulated credit agreement relevant to the alleged debt which has not been complied with.

I reiterate that I am not now nor ever have been a customer of " Look Again" and have not ordered or received and goods or services from this company.

use signed for post.

My concern here is that this kind of situation is going to arise again, and your credit profile is going to be severely affected.
I think you may have to bite the bullet on reporting the fraud, awkward I know but obtaining goods and services in this way
is / could get beyond control.

nem

[ths01]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

Thanks Nem.

RE reporting the fraud, I really don't think that I can due to the consequences that could arise for the individual. I remember watching a documentary on Stephen Fry who went to prison for similar, despite his mental health issues.

Although I wouldn't tell them this, I would be willing to come to an arrangement (now the dust has settled) akin to those that are sometimes offered by these companies i.e. pay something like 25% of the overall fee by x date. 'Next' previously removed similar from my credit history as mentioned in my original post (CAP are dealing with this now).

Ultimately though, I agree that any further signs, and I must report it.

I will send the suggested reply and see what EOS' response is.

[ths01]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

Good morning ths,
I suggest a short sharp reply along the lines of:

Ref: Use theirs:

Sir/madam,

I refer to your letter dated.......................: I refer you to my request for a copy of the regulated credit agreement relevant to the alleged debt which has not been complied with.

I reiterate that I am not now nor ever have been a customer of " Look Again" and have not ordered or received and goods or services from this company.

use signed for post.

My concern here is that this kind of situation is going to arise again, and your credit profile is going to be severely affected.
I think you may have to bite the bullet on reporting the fraud, awkward I know but obtaining goods and services in this way
is / could get beyond control.

nem

So, I received another reply today. The text is as follows:

"Please be advised a letter was sent to you dated 14/12/15 advising that Look Again confirmed that the account was opened on 07/04/2015, therefore unfortunately there is no signed agreement. Orders were placed online and the delivery address was (my address).

If you do not believe it is your account, I ask if you would kindly provide proof of where you were residing when the account was opened on 07/04/2015.

In relation to the Postal Order of £1.00, I have sent this request to our Cash Department to amend this off the account as it is currently showing as a payment on the account.

I can confirm the account has been placed on hold until I am receipt of the relevant information. Upon receipt, I will inform you of the outcome."

What should my next move be. Do catalogue companies have to have CCAs?

I've already advised there are mental health issues in play. The address is the address I was residing in at the time but I work Monday to Friday whereas my girlfriend was not in work at the time so easily receieved goods without my knowledge. I also work in an extremely secure building and could easily prove my whereabouts when deliveries were made.

Payments were made on the account. I've asked for details of the account payments were made from without reply to date. Do I push this?

I'm torn between pushing the CCA angle if it is ultimately applicable, else going down the mental health route and attempting to repair the damage done to my credit history.

My girlfriend has also discussed this with CAP. They mentioned it might be possible to provide access to her mental health issues along with other evidence (i.e. where payment came from and my whereabouts when deliveries were made) to transfer the debt and credit history. That would also required Grattan's cooperation.

Thanks,
THS01

[nemesis45]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

So, I received another reply today. The text is as follows:

"Please be advised a letter was sent to you dated 14/12/15 advising that Look Again confirmed that the account was opened on 07/04/2015, therefore unfortunately there is no signed agreement. Orders were placed online and the delivery address was (my address).

If you do not believe it is your account, I ask if you would kindly provide proof of where you were residing when the account was opened on 07/04/2015.

In relation to the Postal Order of £1.00, I have sent this request to our Cash Department to amend this off the account as it is currently showing as a payment on the account.

I can confirm the account has been placed on hold until I am receipt of the relevant information. Upon receipt, I will inform you of the outcome."

What should my next move be. Do catalogue companies have to have CCAs?

I've already advised there are mental health issues in play. The address is the address I was residing in at the time but I work Monday to Friday whereas my girlfriend was not in work at the time so easily receieved goods without my knowledge. I also work in an extremely secure building and could easily prove my whereabouts when deliveries were made.

Payments were made on the account. I've asked for details of the account payments were made from without reply to date. Do I push this?

I'm torn between pushing the CCA angle if it is ultimately applicable, else going down the mental health route and attempting to repair the damage done to my credit history.

My girlfriend has also discussed this with CAP. They mentioned it might be possible to provide access to her mental health issues along with other evidence (i.e. where payment came from and my whereabouts when deliveries were made) to transfer the debt and credit history. That would also required Grattan's cooperation.

Thanks,
THS01

Yes push it, if they have been providing credit without any form of agreement then it's wrong.

nem

[ths01]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

Yes push it, if they have been providing credit without any form of agreement then it's wrong.

nem

An update on this.

I advised EOS I had not opened the account, but instead it was linked to family dispute.

I also advised the person in question is dealing with a number of debts via CAP; they had access to my address, I haven't ever ordered or signed for a delivery, can prove my whereabouts where any items have been signed for, etc.

Yesterday (30/1) I received a letter from EOS stating I have 14 days to reply else they will start their collection efforts again. They have also requested I provide a council tax statement showing my address. I feel the latter is irrelevant as I'm not disputing where items were delivered, rather that I didn't open the account, nor receive goods, and the person who did is willing to take on the debt and the credit history...

I'm at a loss with how to proceed now. Next previously moved the debt and credit history to the person in question - why can't EOS/Grattan-Look Again?

[ths01]

Re: Catalogue Debt - Family Dispute (Advice appreciated!!!)

Another quick question.

The Grattan-Look Again account had a direct debit set up against it, and two card payments made. Can I request details of where the payments have come from. I requested this from EOS who couldn't supply the information.

Thanks.