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  1. #26
    Openlaw15's Avatar

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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Hi its sam no one has answered my question where can I get a template forms required to compel an executor to provide a inventory an account of their dealings with the estate
    Sam, just quote the law we have provided on this thread. If you want, you can write a letter to the executor but before you send it off, I'll amend it with the legal stuff, ok? There is no template that am aware of for what you're asking. It's just a case of providing a persuasive letter to the executor or contact a relevant lawyer.

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Hi its sam after making a number of phone calls to probate court I have been told the form required is a summons form which I have been sent a copy of from the probate Court and affidavit from myself summons form some of it I can understand how to fill it but there's a part where I would like help with. . Summons form. .. in the High Court of Justice principal Registry of family division. . ( probate). . In the estate of. (deceased). .of( last known address). ... who died on( date of death). .. between. Applicant. .and. respondent .let. attend before. . The district judge sitting in court at the principle registry of the family division. Then the address or depending on what part of country or in. .. .am/pm. The day. Of. 2016. . On the hearing on an application. . On the part of. ..for. .. dated. The. Day of. 2016. .. ... This is what I have been told I need to fill can you help me filling it in please

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Hi its sam after making a number of phone calls to probate court I have been told the form required is a summons form which I have been sent a copy of from the probate Court and affidavit from myself summons form some of it I can understand how to fill it but there's a part where I would like help with. . Summons form. .. in the High Court of Justice principal Registry of family division. . ( probate). . In the estate of. (deceased). .of( last known address). ... who died on( date of death). .. between. Applicant. .and. respondent .let. attend before. . The district judge sitting in court at the principle registry of the family division. Then the address or depending on what part of country or in. .. .am/pm. The day. Of. 2016. . On the hearing on an application. . On the part of. ..for. .. dated. The. Day of. 2016. .. ... This is what I have been told I need to fill can you help me filling it in please
    Sam, have you told the executor the law first for executors providing beneficiaries with estate balances etc?

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Yes four letters up until now I sent to them I explained that the beneficiaries are entitled to inventory and account last letter I sent was marked letter before claim

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Yes four letters up until now I sent to them I explained that the beneficiaries are entitled to inventory and account last letter I sent was marked letter before claim
    Sam did you quote the law to them as we have put on this thread?
    Last edited by Openlaw15; 19th May 2016 at 09:35:AM.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Hi its Sam yes I have quoted them the law in my past letters they take no notice I am having to take action now

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Hi its sam after making a number of phone calls to probate court I have been told the form required is a summons form which I have been sent a copy of from the probate Court and affidavit from myself summons form some of it I can understand how to fill it but there's a part where I would like help with. . Summons form. .. in the High Court of Justice principal Registry of family division. . ( probate). . In the estate of. (deceased). .of( last known address). ... who died on( date of death). .. between. Applicant. .and. respondent .let. attend before. . The district judge sitting in court at the principle registry of the family division. Then the address or depending on what part of country or in. .. .am/pm. The day. Of. 2016. . On the hearing on an application. . On the part of. ..for. .. dated. The. Day of. 2016. .. ... This is what I have been told I need to fill can you help me filling it in please
    Have you made a start on the form yet Sam? Copy and paste its wording here if you want

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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    I have a similar problem as Sam but he states his has gone to probate, I would like to get interim accounts as it has been 2 years since my fathers death and my sister (who also had unregistered enduring poa) is the executor and despite her taking on a solicitor to deal with the will there has been no progress and I have been told nothing even though I am a joint equal beneficiary. I believe my sister is staling as she has already sold my dads house and emptied his bank accounts while he was alive and says it was a gift! I have phoned about 4 or 5 "Probate courts" and they say it's nothing to do with them until it's gone to probate ! can anyone help?

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    I am attempting this as well, which bit below am I meant to quote before taking action and has anyone here successfully obtained interim accounts (before grant of probate)
    And where did they get forms and help filling them ?
    I have had no luck with probate courts they just say get legal help and they only deal with cases after probate granted!
    #
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/29/section/35


    : Lord Wrenbury in O ’Rourke v Darbishire [1920] AC 581 at paragraph 626; also the Privy Counsel in Schmidt v Rosewood Trust Ltd [2003] UKPC 26; [2003] 2 AC 709; and in Breakspear v Ackland [2008] EWHC 220 (Chancery); [2009] Ch 32.

    To suggest that the executors are not accountable to the beneficiaries to provide documents or financial statements of the estate is absurd: Lord Wrenbury in O' Rourke [1920].

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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Quote Originally Posted by des8 View Post
    Hi and welcome
    The executor only has to provide detailed accounts to residuary beneficiaries when estate is finally settled.

    If you think about an executors duties you will realise that it is unreasonable to expect running accounts and estimates of residual benefits.
    And in any case, if these accounts were provided the expense would deplete the amount available to distribute, and the executors first duty is to preserve the assets, not spend them on his expenses.

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tsemmanual/tsem6054.htm

    For executors a useful post, generally it's not someting that most of us do on a regular basis.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    sorry you lost me on that one! all the above messages say you can get intrim accounts via court after giving good reason !

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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferret25f View Post
    sorry you lost me on that one! all the above messages say you can get intrim accounts via court after giving good reason !
    Have you read the earlier posts on this thread, especially 4,5 &,6?

  13. #38
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Number 6 says :
    According to this UK website: http://cohencramer.co.uk/inheritance...utor-disputes/

    "The executors do not have a duty to keep beneficiaries informed about the administration of the estate however it is good practice to. They do however have a duty to provide a beneficiary with estate accounts when requested."

    When I challenged Cohen Cramer for the source of the above statement, they pointed me to the Myddleton & Rushout 1797 case which the Law Society Library helped me locate. Therefore I was not surprised at all when the Judge quoted this same case.

    It does seem to me though that an Executor does have a duty to provide the accounts when requested and if they don't then you can go to Court to ask for them to be forced to give them to you. There was no cost for issuing the summons which the Probate Office helped with by providing a template and just a few pounds for swearing an affidavit. Also no court costs as I represented myself and I have to say that I found the court staff and the Judge very helpful to me as I was a lay person and the court was not as intimidating as I expected it might. Costs for the other side were not granted against me but have been left till the end of the case in the event that we go back to court if he doesn't now comply with the order.
    thats exactly what I am trying to do, Ipswich Probate Court know what I want to do and have sent me forms but I need them from another area and that area dosn't seem to know so have emailed them and hope that the person dealing can help, or its back to Ipswich to see if they can contact the other area and enlighten them

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested


    The duties of the personal representative (‘PR’) of a deceased’s estate are set out in s25 Administration of Estates Act 1925(as amended by s9 Administration of Estates Act 1971):“The personal representative of a deceased person shall be under a duty to collect and get in the real andpersonal estate of the deceased and administer it according to law; when required to do so by the court, exhibit onoath in the court a full inventory of the estate and when so required render an account of the administration of theestate to the court; [and] when required to do so by the High Court, deliver up the grant of probate oradministration to that court.”

    The original question was about the duty of the executor to render an account when asked by a beneficiary, to which the response was "there is no such duty"
    The duty arises following suit and court order.

    have you searched here for the form you require ;https://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov..../FormFinder.do

  15. #40
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Hi
    we are having similar difficulties with an executor who considers the estate wound up but I believe some of the estate residual funds have been inadvertently subsumed into the estate of another executor who has since passed away, complicating matters. I believe the residual funds were held in the executors named account and not an executors bank account.
    i have been made a personal representative now but the other executor will not meet up with me to discuss matters. I am now thinking of applying to the court to ask the other personal rep to provide the accounts. I have a copy of the form
    can you tell me how much information you have to give as to why you are taking this course of action? Do you have to quote the relevant laws?
    do you have to attend court or are the accounts sent to you by the court?
    any guidance you can give would be very much appreciated.
    thanks

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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Quote Originally Posted by des8 View Post
    Hi and welcome
    The executor only has to provide detailed accounts to residuary beneficiaries when estate is finally settled.

    If you think about an executors duties you will realise that it is unreasonable to expect running accounts and estimates of residual benefits.
    And in any case, if these accounts were provided the expense would deplete the amount available to distribute, and the executors first duty is to preserve the assets, not spend them on his expenses.

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tsemmanual/tsem6054.htm

    The reply does make sense, it may not be what requester wanted.

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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Quote Originally Posted by des8 View Post
    The question was "do EXECUTORS have to provide running accounts?"
    Your response refers to "TRUSTEES"

    My (mis?)understanding has always been:

    Executor : A person appointed by a Testator to carry out theterms of his or her Will.
    During the administration period a beneficiary hasno rights in the deceased’s estate. All he has is aright to ensure that the estate is properlyadministered.

    Trustee: one who performs the duties and exercises powers provided forin a Trust instrument, as well as general duties and powers prescribed by statute orthe courts.

    A will does not automatically make a trustee of the executor

    An interesting distinction between Executor & Trustee!

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    The distinction between a trustee and an executor is more than just interesting, it is quite real.
    My post at the time was in response to one from a now inactive member who thought that because he had some sort of law degree he could baffle us all!

    Whilst executors and trustees are similar in that both have a duty of care to the beneficiaries, their roles are somewhat different.
    Executors gather in and distribute assets in much the same way as liquidators, whilst a trustee is responsible for investing and administering the assets of the trust... more a business manager perhaps?

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Can someone help me with some advice please? I have read through all the posts due to my circumstances and understand that I do not have to be a residuary beneficiary to force accounts and as a next of kin (daughter) and interested person i.e. my daughter and I have specific legacies of total 10K we could issue a summons for account to be provided to the Court???

    Not sure though that this would be the right course of action even if I am correct.

    Like others I suspect fraud although now it has been uncovered I am being told I will receive funds eventually.

    I was executor of my mother's estate. My brother had been missing ingnoring us all for 25 years until my mother was 75. His return to the family broke up the family largely due to he and my other daughter continually taking money from my mother.

    I found out from an old friend that she died in March 2017. My brother neither told me of the illness, death nor funeral hence my daughter and I were unable to attend. I received no contact from my brother at any time but looked out for a will and Probate which was granted to my brother in June. Again no contact. He was now executor and I and my younger daughter had specific and therefore priority bequests.

    There is no question of inheritance tax nor property to sell.

    I found out she sold her house and has obviously distributed funds to my brother and older daughter as they have been buying houses and cars. Eventually having waited to see whether my fears were being realised I wrote to my brother recorded delivery not disclosing I had seen a will - no reply.

    I wrote again whereupon he did reply.

    He told me he did not have to provide me with accounts and had done so to my eldest daughter as she is also a residuary beneficiary with him but would not be sending any money to us basically because he did not have to for 6 months.

    There was no property left or shares/investments. When I was executor she only had bank accounts and the bank confirm it will take only days to transfer the money to the executor. I wrote back asking for our specific legacies within 7 days which has been ignored.

    I pointed out he had sent accounts to my eldest thus the administration was complete, there would have been no debts and I am certain he will have been accessing the money himself and will have provided the funds due to my eldest in Australia.

    I am certain he would not have ever told us about our inheritance but he has now had to acknowledge it but is basically withholding just ours. What to do guys? I feel absolutely helpless.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Hiand welcome
    Sorry to hear of your problems and the passing of your mother.

    Executors often do not distribute any legacies until the passing of 6 months after the grant of probate which was obtained on ???
    This is because claims can be made against the estate during that period.

    Specific legacies and small monetary legacies are often made before the expiry of the 6 months
    However you need to remember there is also "the executors year" (which commences the day the deceased passed on).

    I doubt it is worth asking the courts to order that he produces an inventory and an account of his dealings with the estate at this point

    Tagging @Peridot when she has a moment.

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Hi thanks for your response and thoughts. Probate was 15th June 2017. I waited for 6 months from date of death for the period for any claims against the estate to elapse, knowing that there would not be any anyway. The estate left is only around 70K, 10K to myself and daughter as specific legacies and the rest to the 2 residuary beneficiaries who are the executor brother and my eldest daughter. There are only the 4 of us in the will. The only possible claims against the estate would be from myself as not receiving anything in the residual estate, which I would not do. There are no other brothers and sisters nor even close relatives. I am sure the death was kept from me with the intention that I did not know about any death and will and I would not have received anything had I not shown my hand. I am equally sure that as I have been told accounts have been distributed to the residual beneficiaries that so has the money been distributed and used by both himself and the daughter in Australia. I had considered waiting the year and then going to the police, with the unfortunate outcome then that there may have been no money left. I am unable to prove without some involvement that he and the other residual legatee have long ago split their shares, and that my eldest daughter will believe from the accounts she has had that our specific legacies have been paid. It would not surprise me that there is nevertheless nothing I can do and he knows it. I have no doubt I will receive nothing at any point in those circumstances. Seeing a solicitor is unlikely to do anything but cost me money and no progress. In the meantime I believe the money is available, much of his share will already have been spent, and there is no bona fide reason for him to retain mine and my daughter's share in his bank. Incidentally my daughter has been unable to work for the last 2 years , has no money of her own and we as pensioners are totally financially supporting her, giving me every reason to contest the will if I chose. I do not want the stress and hassle and in fact have been the only one who declined to keep taking money from my mother in her final years.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    If you are really concerned you could as the estate appears to be concluded apply to the probate registry for an inventory and account order.
    You would need to use Form N208 with a supporting affidavit

    Perhaps if you write to him (one last time) advising him this is your intention if he does not release your legacy within say the next 14 days.

    If the executor has disposed of your legacy contrary to the law and directions of the will you would need to initiate a civil claim against him.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Thanks Des 8, I will have a think and I might just do that. I read your other post about the Administration of Estates Act and I might just quote from that. I have already had it quoted at me that I am not entitled to a copy of the final accounts under the Act but of course from your posts the Court certainly can ask for it on application. I am just being played. Will let readers know if there is any other outcome. I remain appalled from what I have read from the last few weeks about the lack of control and remedies in relation to the actions/non-action of executors using delaying tactics which are clearly not bona fide real issues and problems but attempts to avoid justice. Thanks again for clearing my mind.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Hi Tigi,
    A difficult situation for you.
    The executors have a duty to follow the Will. It may be worth pointing that out to them in a recorded delivery letter. You would be within your rights to bring a claim for your legacy, which if successful, would probably order the costs to be paid by the executors not yourself.
    It may be worth obtaining a free half hour with a contested probate specialist. Take the information and copy Grant and Will with you. They may say sit tight for a while but they will also indicate what options you have open to you.
    I am a qualified solicitor employed by the LegalBeagles forum to provide guidance on a wide range of legal queries. I am happy to try and assist informally, where needed.

    Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any practical advice I give is without liability. I do not represent people on the forum.

    If in doubt you should always seek professional face to face legal advice.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Executors duty to provide beneficary with accounts when requested

    Thank you Peridot for taking the time to reply. I am still thinking on whether/what to write. I had been thinking if I said I was going to ask for Court to request accounts it might force some action, on the other hand it is more likely he will dig his heels in further, depending on how much there is to hide. When you say bring a claim for the legacy do you mean in the small claims Court, as I had considered whether this might be appropriate as he clearly has the money in his own account and not an executor account? However still deliberating the way forward in the light of the responses I have received. I suspect doing nothing is not an option which will produce any results.

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