This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

[MissFM]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

I'd personally tell the guy to take a flying leap (and I'm being nice there :lol ... he left the dog with her, proved he wasn't bothered.

Couldn't agree more!

From the animal welfare point of view it would be crazy to take a dog of that age from a secure home & send it "on the road" to an uncertain future, with someone who's already demonstrated a lack of basic understanding as to a dog's needs. Do that, and there may well not be a dog to squabble over, at least not for long. :doggieyes:

I wonder if any of the animal charities (Blue Cross, Dogs Trust, RSPCA etc) might be willing to mediate and put a stop to this potentially cruel nonsense?

The television analogy is also bunkum - if you *give* someone a television and then they won't give it back three years later that's not theft - it's keeping a gift - twattish comment by policeman. :colbert:

Interesting article on the (dog custody) subject here:
http://lawfam.oxfordjournals.org/content/28/2/177.full

x

[des8]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

Whilst I agree with the comments regarding the welfare of the dog, I do think some are being a tad harsh towards the guy.

Their relationship broke down, and they both moved into her parents home. It is claimed (post 1) that " under no pressure to leave the man chose to move to accommodation on his own".
Oh yeah, no pressure! It's not an awkward situation at all is it. Who's kidding whom?
If he didn't feel it was an uncomfortable situation I would be surprised.
No wonder he moved out, and it so happens he couldn't take the dog.

True, he could probably done more to support the dog, but all the "evidence " has come from one side.
If it was to go to court (which I very much doubt) his version of the situation might turn out to be quite different.

[marleymouse]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

Whilst I agree with the comments regarding the welfare of the dog, I do think some are being a tad harsh towards the guy.

Their relationship broke down, and they both moved into her parents home. It is claimed (post 1) that " under no pressure to leave the man chose to move to accommodation on his own".
Oh yeah, no pressure! It's not an awkward situation at all is it. Who's kidding whom?
If he didn't feel it was an uncomfortable situation I would be surprised.
No wonder he moved out, and it so happens he couldn't take the dog.

True, he could probably done more to support the dog, but all the "evidence " has come from one side.
If it was to go to court (which I very much doubt) his version of the situation might turn out to be quite different.

You are quite right there is always two sides and you have only heard one but I assure you the break up was amicable with no-one else involved on either side & no-one has denied that he cares about the dog.. He was invited by her family to stay in their home when their property lease ended. As strange as it may seem he was genuinely made welcome & as a friend was under no pressure to leave, it was his choice to take accommodation which did not allow dogs but he still freely came & went from her family home to visit the dog whenever he wanted. From then on she actively encouraged him to find a place for himself where he could have the dog stay and they could share the dogs care (for the dog & his sake not hers) but he did not bother & his interest in living with the dog stopped & he left all the financial & daily care burden of the dog to her & he just visited. Now suddenly after 18months he has decided he wants to uproot & whisk this elderly dog hundreds of miles away from everything she knows.

[des8]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

I don't doubt he was made welcome, and was under no pressure whatsoever.
However he may well have felt awkward. Self imposed perhaps, and borne silently. but real none the less.
We don't know why he apparently stopped taking an interest in his dog, there may be a good reason of which no one is aware.

I was just cautioning against slight judgemental posting,

Jane and I were once accused of not caring about our dogs after we left them in kennels for 2 years.
Those judging weren't aware our house had been destroyed by fire, we had 15 dogs spread round the country, we had 7 children at home and one in uni, & had to build a new business from scratch.
During that time it just was not possible to visit all the dogs (although we did pay the kennelling fees) and eventually took them back.
However a certain group we heard later were happy to say we didn't care!

[marleymouse]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

I agree he probably felt awkward long term but he definitely did not need to move where he could not take the dog & has had many opportunities to move since then if he wanted the dog with him but chose not to & he has no excuse for not contributing financially.

I do appreciate in times of crisis people need help both financially & with foster care in order to keep their beloved pets safe until a property can be sorted or they can care for their pets again. In the event of things like fire, flood & ill health this can be many many months & I have friends who this has happened to not least following horrendous floods in our town. I do fully understand your situation & concerns regarding people being judgemental but nothing like this is the case here, it really has been his personal choice to live without the dog.

[marleymouse]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

To be honest I can see both sides emotionally but truly believe it is kinder & less stressful for the dog if she were to stay where she is. I didn't know if legally there was a definitive answer to this regardless of all the circumstances but I guess it may be down to a judge to decide her future.

[marleymouse]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

Since my last post on this subject the girl has been victim to further harassment both from callers to her home and her place of work on the mans behalf. He been abroad on holiday for a week & today the girl received a letter from him via recorded delivery post marked 14th September. However the letter inside is dated 2nd September and is not signed. The contents is accusing the girl of stealing the dog from him on 24th July and that to date she has refused to return it. It says she has just seven days to arrange for the dogs return or he will make an application to the County Court but he says he will be happy to attempt to sort things in Court Mediation Service providing this can happen quickly. He states the urgency is due to the obvious distress the dog must be under but this is totally untrue as you will recall the dog has lived very comfortably with the girl alone for the past 18months & he has made no attempt to have this dog live with him or contribute to her care/keep. The only reason he has not seen the dog since that date is because he was moving away & suddenly out of the blue wanted to remove this elderly dog from the forever home where she has lived long term & is happy & settled.

Please can anyone advise on how best to respond to this type of letter?
Is the 7 days time scale he has quoted reasonable or carry any clout?
The girl realises if he takes her to court the decision could go either way but having lived as 'mum' to the dog now for 7years she is prepared & willing to do whatever is necessary to try to secure the dogs future with her.

Hoping someone can give me some tips, Many thanks for reading x

[MissFM]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

Unless she can have a rational conversation with him then I would think that she will have to call his bluff.

As she has paid all the bills - particularly vets' bills - and can presumably produce evidence of this and the vet as a witness both to the dog's lack of veterinary attention before she came into its life and to her continued care of the dog I can't imagine but that the court will take the view that the dog should stay with her. The paying of the bills would normally constitute evidence of ownership and it's age and arthritis alone would speak against taking it from a familiar safe environment.

If he does truly love the animal (I'm not saying he doesn't, Des, just that from what the OP says in their first post he's not very clued up on how to look after it) IMO, purely based on animal welfare issues and what has been posted here, he must be made to see that sometimes love for another creature involves personal sacrifice.

[marleymouse]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

The girl has now received a legal letter advising he has applied to court and she has 12 days to respond with her defence. He is claiming for the 'return' of the dog and £500 compensation because she refused to give him the dog when he asked for it two months ago, plus £280 court costs. She plans to go to court and will use her food & vet receipts etc. to prove he relinquished the dog to her when they parted and has lived with her & been solely her financial responsibility for the past two years. Is there any other type of evidence that could assist or be admissible in her defence ie witnessess or witness statements or maybe photos?

Presumably if the court finds in his favour & makes her hand over the dog she could counterclaim for the vet fees, food and care for the two year period she has had the dog but she does not want to enter this in her defence because she has no interest in the money only the dog which she has cared for as any dog owner. She fears a judge may misinterpret any reference to the costs she has incurred owning the dog for two years.

Out of interest if an agreement reached between them at the last minute before the court date who would be responsible for the court costs?

Please can anyone advise?

[wales01man]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

Was this a letter from a solicitor or a claim from a court looks like a non court letter just a threat

[marleymouse]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

I have not seen letter but she says its from the court with form to respond with her defence saying she has 12 days to submit it..

[des8]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

Sounds like a court claim.
If it is she needs to acknowledge it, which will give her an extra 14 days to submit her defence.

Any chance of getting it posted up (suitably redacted)?

[Kati]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

I have not seen letter but she says its from the court with form to respond with her defence saying she has 12 days to submit it..

Sounds like a court claim.
If it is she needs to acknowledge it, which will give her an extra 14 days to submit her defence.

Any chance of getting it posted up (suitably redacted)?

If you can get a picture of it and email it to me (kati@legalbeagles.info) I'll post it up xx

[Kati]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

Court Form:

[des8]

Re: This may be strange topic but I hope someone with animal compassion can advise

So a nice brief defence along these lines ???

The defendant denies the claim in its entirety.
The relationship between the Defendant and Claimant ended on day month year when the claimant left the partnership and abandoned the dog
to the care of the defendant.
The defendant will show that the claimant failed to contribute to the animal's upkeep or welfare, and effectively abandoned it.

I wouldn't put in a counter claim.
If however she was to lose, she could consider making a separate claim for her costs in maintaining the animal as she will have been deemed by the courts as acting as an involuntary bailee (I don't see the court finding her "unlawfully taking the dog", although they might order its return to her ex)