Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[RJH]

Hello,

Hoping that someone can help me here without judging.

I have attached a copy of the letter I've received today from the local police force, and would like to know the following:

1) Why would it have taken them 2 months to write to me about it and offer me the fixed penalty? Can I reject this based on the length of time it has taken to come through?

2) If I accept the fine and 6 points, I have 6 points already which are due off in November. If they add the 6 this time and take my licence, when would I get this back? Once the other 6 go off, or not?

3) I am thinking of contesting and going to court, on the basis that I was driving because my OH was hurting (pregnancy) and it was an error on my part as I was under the assumption that my insurance covered me. Is it worth going to court?

I don't condone the offence I have had put to me, and accept that it's my error that has led to this, but if I go to court to make my case (travel 20 miles each way for work and catching train every day isn't feasible for long-term, have a court order to see my daughter that would be broken because of no travel, may lose job because of lack of public transport into the area (thus meaning child maintenance payments would be virtually nothing etc.) would it stand a chance of potentially lowering points to 5 with a higher fine?

Any advice will be appreciated,

Thanks

[des8]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

i)They are not out of time. There are only really two relevant time limits. The first is that they must issue a NIP within 14 days of the offence. The second is that they need to lay information before the court within six months of the offence.
The date upon which the conditional offer goes out is a non issue except of course how close it is to their six month deadline.

ii)You could apply for return of your licence in November.

iii)IMO not worth risking, as an assumption you were insured is not good enough. As a driver you have to ensure you have insurance.
Why wouldn't daily travel by train for 20 miles be feasible. Take a folding bike and you won't need public transport the other end and won't lose your job.
Don't see your child for a short while (the court order is a permission?), a pity.
In my experience the only reason for getting a reduction so you don't lose your licence, is if your loss impinges heavily on third parties eg they would lose their jobs.


Others might have had other experiences as it does to an extent depend on local magistrates.

[wales01man]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

The choices take the fine and points and maybe a ban it will be for a fixed term not necessarily ending when the other points are removed or go to court and plead mitigating circumstances.

If you were driving uninsured with your wife they might take a dim view if you admit guilt in court they may not ban you its a chance and decision you must take.

If you can get advice from a Solicitor

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] [MENTION=30456]wales01man[/MENTION]

Thanks for your replies.

In terms of affecting a 3rd party - my OH is 18 weeks pregnant and has been made 'redundant (used in the loosest term)' from her job as of yesterday so I am the only income earner at the moment. The hospital we are having to use is 19 miles away too, and she will be having a C-section, meaning she can't drive for around 6 weeks afterwards and she has a 5 year old already.

I would love to take advice from a solicitor too, but I have been declared bankrupt in 2013, so finances are tight and I can't afford that, especially in light of the OH's job loss. If I do go to court I will be representing myself.

Also, I have read about people still being allowed to drive with 12 points on their license, how does that work?

[mystery1]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

You cannot accept the conditional offer as it would take you to 12 points. You can try but it should be rejected.

I assume you were stopped at the time ? If so the 14 day NIP is not required.

You must send the s172 notice back within 28 days or that's a big fine and 6 points.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/143

143 Users of motor vehicles to be insured or secured against third-party risks.


(1)Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act—
(a)a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road [F1or other public place] unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complies with the requirements of this Part of this Act, and
(b)a person must not cause or permit any other person to use a motor vehicle on a road [F2or other public place] unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that other person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complies with the requirements of this Part of this Act.
(2)If a person acts in contravention of subsection (1) above he is guilty of an offence.
(3)A person charged with using a motor vehicle in contravention of this section shall not be convicted if he proves—
(a)that the vehicle did not belong to him and was not in his possession under a contract of hiring or of loan,
(b)that he was using the vehicle in the course of his employment, and
(c)that he neither knew nor had reason to believe that there was not in force in relation to the vehicle such a policy of insurance or security as is mentioned in subsection (1) above.
(4)This Part of this Act does not apply to invalid carriages.



If you get to 12 points you can argue exceptional hardship.

http://www.onepaper.co.uk/JAM%20Exce...20hardship.pdf

Focus on family when arguing exceptional hardship as YOU are meant to be punished.

M1

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] thanks for your advice, much appreciated.

I guess i can just accept it and be banned, or at least try to show my situation and know I've done all I can and either be successful or banned still.
There is no way I can afford solicitors in my situation, so what kind of legal protcol do I need to follow and understand to present my case as best as possible?

[mystery1]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

I'd try and accept the offer near the deadline and see what happens. If you are really lucky it will confuse the system and they'll be to late to take you to court (they have until November though).

Whether you refuse the offer or take it up you should end up in court but paying now gives the opportunity, however small, of a screw up.

M1

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

Thanks for the advice. I'll send it recorded for next day delivery at the last available moment then.

If i send a cheque for £300.00 and just accept the FPN, is it pretty much guaranteed that because of 'totting up' they can't just accept it and would have to return it and get me to court?

[wales01man]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

If you play games with them be prepared to face the music its a serious offence you are charged with Magistrates take a dim view of those who try to play the system .
take the penalty if it goes to court try to mitigate it for no ban

[mystery1]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

Thanks for the advice. I'll send it recorded for next day delivery at the last available moment then.

If i send a cheque for £300.00 and just accept the FPN, is it pretty much guaranteed that because of 'totting up' they can't just accept it and would have to return it and get me to court?

Correct.

If an offence should take you to 12 points it should always end up with a court case even if that is just a guilty plea. Fixed penalties are not available to potential totters.

M1

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] I returned from holiday and sent the documents and cheque off, and had it returned the next day as they correctly state it will take me up to 12 points and I should expect to hear from ______ Police Force in due course.

What kind of time periods and what may or may not happen now?

[mystery1]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

They get 6 months to lay the information with the courts and it can take a few weeks after that to hear about a court date. It can be quicker too.

M1

[RJH]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

[MENTION=5354]mystery1[/MENTION] - I still haven't heard anything, and the 6 month date is on the 10th November. I'm aware this is nothing to get excited about, but how long should it take really?

Also, what criteria need to be met legally if I represent myself and try to avoid a ban? I'm trying to save enough to get advice at least, but with my OH having lost her job and being pregnant (due in December) money is extremely tight.

Thanks for any help.

[mystery1]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

I have heard it take 2 months to actually send a summons from the date it was laid (which is the 6 month deadline). How 2 months meets with the "without undue delay" requirement i'm not so sure.

M1

[des8]

Re: Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty

As your existing points are off this month, looks like you are going to avoid losing your licence.
Besides pleading "exceptional hardship" (post 5), are you in a position to plead "medical emergency"?
You said OH was in pain .......... were you on way to hospital?
and why did you think you were insured?
If you can show you had a "genuine and honest" belief that you were insured and had reasonable grounds for that belief the magistrates can exercise discretion when fixing the penalty (Rennison v Knowler 1947 1 All E.R. 302)