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  1. #1
    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Hello ,

    I have been hounded by Lowell for the last year over an old Capital One debt. In January I sent a CCA request.
    They responded by saying that since the debt and account was so old, they were closing the account but that
    if documents came to light in the future they would recommence pursuing payment.

    Well after 6 months worry free, a large envelope landed on the doormat from Lowell containing statements
    going back to 1999 and a demand for payment but no agreement or terms and conditions and nothing with any signature.
    I ignored this and have been receiving the usual letters from them 2-3 times a week for the last 2 weeks, culminating in the
    latest, threatening legal action.

    I would just like clarification on how I should word my next letter to them as they obviously haven't fulfilled
    the CCA request.

    The debt will time out after 6 years on 13th December this year.

    Any help and advice will be greatly appreciated

    David

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    nemesis45's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Hi Welcome to LB,

    Quite simply no agreement the debt is unenforceable.
    Does Lowell describe the documents as " reconstituted" agreement
    or a true copy of your agreement in a covering letter?

    nem
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  3. #3
    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Wow, that was quick! lol

    Hi, Nem, No, there wasn't even an attempt at a reconstituted agreement or a mention of one . All they sent were the statements

    David

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    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    I have started a letter to them but slightly at a loss as to how to finish it and I don't want to screw it up. This is what I have written so far -

    Lowell Financial Ltd
    Ellington House
    9 Savannah Way, Leeds Valley Park West
    LEEDS
    West Yorkshire
    LS10 1AB
    17/07/2015

    Dear Sir/Madam
    Re:- Account/Reference Number *********
    I do not acknowledge any debt to your company or its clients.
    On 20/01/2015 I wrote to you requesting that you supply me a true copy of the executed credit
    agreement for this account (copy enclosed). You have failed to comply with this request

  5. #5
    nemesis45's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemadder View Post
    Wow, that was quick! lol

    Hi, Nem, No, there wasn't even an attempt at a reconstituted agreement or a mention of one . All they sent were the statements

    David
    Hello David,

    In that case the following may help.

    FAO Mr Andrew Bartle,
    COO The Lowell Group
    Ellington House
    9 Savannah Way
    Leeds Valley Park
    LS10 1AH

    Date.................................

    Ref: Use Lowell's.

    Dear Mr Bartle,

    I have received a bundle of documents from ..........................department of Lowell I am rather mystified as to the meaning or intent of supplying these documents which consist entirely of statements of an account.

    I am sure however these documents are intended to meet a request for information made under the provision of sections 77-79 of CCA 1974 (as amended) and I am sure the sender is fully aware that the documents provider do not meet the requirements laid down in the act and are of no consequence.

    You are reminded also that said documents fail to meet the requirements for a " Reconstituted " agreement and are formally rejected as non compliant.
    Please note that the content of this letter is not an admission of any liability to Lowell.

    OK David, use signed for post check delivery date.
    nem
    The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
    Please make your own decisions with care and if necessary seek qualified legal advice.
    I will not advise by Private Message. If Specific Advice is Needed please Tag me in your post by typing @Nemesis45 . If you receive messages from anyone offering advice for a fee please report it to the site team. Animo et Fide.





  6. #6
    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Thanks, Nem. Greatly appreciated. That's just what I was looking for. You're a star

    David

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    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    For anyone else browsing for enlightenment and for your approval, Nem, this is my finished effort -

    Lowell Financial Ltd
    Ellington House
    9 Savannah Way, Leeds Valley Park West
    LEEDS
    West Yorkshire
    LS10 1AB
    17/07/2015

    Dear Sir/Madam
    Re:- Account/Reference Number **********
    On 20/01/2015 I wrote to you requesting that you supply me a true copy of the executed credit
    agreement for this account (copy enclosed).
    I am rather mystified as to the meaning or intent of the documents that you supplied which consist
    entirely of statements of an account. I am sure however that these documents are intended to meet a
    request for information made under the provision of sections 77-79 of CCA 1974 (as amended) and I am
    sure the sender is fully aware that the documents provided do not meet the requirements laid down in
    the act, are of no consequence and are formally rejected as non compliant.
    Please note that the content of this letter is not an admission of any liability to Lowell.

    I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days.

    Yours faithfully

  8. #8
    jon1965's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Why not simply reply to the threat of legal action ( was it marked letter before action or letter of claim?) with that letter to lowells ordinary bods direct . In my opinion you only go direct to the top when you want a result and at this point you really do not want them to comply with your S78 request.
    If it was a letter of claim there is a whole different type of letter to be sent as well

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemadder View Post
    Hello ,

    I have been hounded by Lowell for the last year over an old Capital One debt. In January I sent a CCA request.
    They responded by saying that since the debt and account was so old, they were closing the account but that
    if documents came to light in the future they would recommence pursuing payment.

    Well after 6 months worry free, a large envelope landed on the doormat from Lowell containing statements
    going back to 1999 and a demand for payment but no agreement or terms and conditions and nothing with any signature.
    I ignored this and have been receiving the usual letters from them 2-3 times a week for the last 2 weeks, culminating in the
    latest, threatening legal action.
    Would you be able to post up that letter (remove all personal details first)? :typing:

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1965 View Post
    Why not simply reply to the threat of legal action ( was it marked letter before action or letter of claim?) with that letter to lowells ordinary bods direct . In my opinion you only go direct to the top when you want a result and at this point you really do not want them to comply with your S78 request.
    If it was a letter of claim there is a whole different type of letter to be sent
    as well
    I fully concur with this. Normally when you send a CCA request and it's not complied with properly, i.e. they send something that's not a properly executed agreement with all the terms, for whatever reason, then you'd just write back saying the account is in dispute as a result of non-compliance with your s.77/78 request and give reasons if appropriate, i.e. it was an illegible copy, just an application form with no terms, just terms and no agreement, etc. as applicable.

    This process has worked for a lot of people over the years, myself included. :grin: :grin: :grin:

    A letter of claim would usually be sent by solicitors rather than the creditor themselves, with the possible exception of MKDP who use their own in-house legal team. Lowell would get either the lovely Mr Carter or BW Legal to send it, that's why it would be good to be able to see the letter in question. If it's one from one of the above, it's very likely a claim will follow if it's not in the post already.

  10. #10
    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Ah it was just a letter saying they were reviewing my account for next steps. - as follows-

    Dear Mr *******

    Recovering what you owe
    As you are yet to contact us to discuss your account, (AS IF!) we are reviewing your account for next steps which could include
    legal action if you do not agree to repay.

    Legal action would involve passing your account to a third party collection agency who may apply to the County Court for a
    Judgement against you (this is known as a CCJ). If they are successful in obtaining a CCJ and you still do not pay, they may then
    look to inforce the CCJ. This could involve:

    If you are employed, an application being made to the Enforcement of Judgements Office to deduct amounts directly
    from your earnings, or

    an application being made for a bailiff to visit your home to the obtain payment to the value of the debt (Their grammar, not mine lol)

    Any enforcement action taken would depend on the amount you owe and your circumstances.

    You can avoid this by calling us on 0333 556 5701 to discuss an affordable repayment plan or visit www.lowell.co.uk to either pay in full (HAHAHA)
    or arrange a suitable payment plan online.

    If you are struggling with debt, please see overleaf for details of organisations where you can get free, confidential and impartial advice. (yeah, like they care)

    Yours sincerely

    Andrew Bartle
    Chief Operations Officer

    - - - Updated - - -

    So basically it hasn't got serious yet. I think they know they haven't got a hope and are resorting to previous standard threatening letters in the hope that I'll crack

    - - - Updated - - -

    and yes, I did sit and type out the entire letter because I couldn't be arsed scanning and editing personal details out of the scan lol

  11. #11
    jon1965's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    To be totally honest I would either leave it be or just write a general non compliance with your cca request letter (without specifics) back to lowells

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemadder View Post
    Ah it was just a letter saying they were reviewing my account for next steps. - as follows-

    Dear Mr *******

    Recovering what you owe
    As you are yet to contact us to discuss your account, (AS IF!) we are reviewing your account for next steps which could include
    legal action if you do not agree to repay.

    Legal action would involve passing your account to a third party collection agency who may apply to the County Court for a
    Judgement against you (this is known as a CCJ). If they are successful in obtaining a CCJ and you still do not pay, they may then
    look to inforce the CCJ.
    This could involve:
    A big *IF* there! As in "If I was successful in winning the lotto, I may look into buying a yacht..." :lol:
    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemadder View Post
    If you are employed, an application being made to the Enforcement of Judgements Office to deduct amounts directly
    from your earnings, or

    an application being made for a bailiff to visit your home to the obtain payment to the value of the debt (Their grammar, not mine lol)

    Any enforcement action taken would depend on the amount you owe and your circumstances.
    They all love to list all the possible ways in which they *could* enforce a CCJ if they had one!
    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemadder View Post
    You can avoid this by calling us on 0333 556 5701 to discuss an affordable repayment plan or visit www.lowell.co.uk to either pay in full (HAHAHA)
    or arrange a suitable payment plan online.

    If you are struggling with debt, please see overleaf for details of organisations where you can get free, confidential and impartial advice. (yeah, like they care)
    Sounds like a fairly generic threat-o-gram as opposed to a letter of claim. :thumb:

  13. #13
    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Isn't that basically what my letter is? Blah, blah, you haven't complied. Jog on :tinysmile_grin_t:

    I don't mean to sound flippant. Just paraphrasing. I would like to nail this on the head before it does go further, even if it is unlikely to

  14. #14
    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Exactly, FlamingParrot. I know that they have no record of me signing anything because I never did sign anything from Capital One

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemadder View Post
    Exactly, FlamingParrot. I know that they have no record of me signing anything because I never did sign anything from Capital One
    When did you take out the Cap One card? You mention statements going back to 1999, is that around the time you took out the card?

    For accounts started before April 2007, s.127(3) of the CCA prevents a court from enforcing the account unless there was a properly executed agreement containing all the prescribed terms to start with. If you didn't sign such an agreement, then the account would be irredeemably unenforceable as opposed to just temporarily UE whilst they are in default of your s.78 request. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

    (3)The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).
    Sadly this lovely bit of legislation was repealed with effect from April 2007 so it doesn't apply to accounts opened after that time.

  16. #16
    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    1999, online. They just posted me a card and kept bumping up the credit limit. I was young and stupid and earning peanuts and using it for things like car insurance.

    I know I spent it and I should pay it and it bothers me but its almost £10k and a messy divorce and corresponding lack of money and drop in income means I have
    no way to pay it! I already have a load of other debt and only now starting to see light at the end of a long tunnel. With the aid of a telescope lol

  17. #17
    nemesis45's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Hi David that's excellent!!
    I see that some attempts have been made to discredit my suggestions.
    Which a totally stand by!

    So I will thank you sincerely for your reputation comment and allow you
    to make your own decisions.

    Best wishes
    Nem,
    you to make your
    The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
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  18. #18
    nemesis45's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemadder View Post
    1999, online. They just posted me a card and kept bumping up the credit limit. I was young and stupid and earning peanuts and using it for things like car insurance.

    I know I spent it and I should pay it and it bothers me but its almost £10k and a messy divorce and corresponding lack of money and drop in income means I have
    no way to pay it! I already have a load of other debt and only now starting to see light at the end of a long tunnel. With the aid of a telescope lol
    There is a point when it comes to attempting to clear a raft of old debt when it is important to remember the creditor/DCA's etc.
    cannot have what you haven't got, what ever they threaten an however much they moan and beg they cannot "get blood out of a stone".
    It has worked in the past just being upfront with some of the creditors and say that whatever they do there is little prospect of then achieving their desired result.
    None of your debts appear to be " priority " matters work through a list and see what is achievable/reasonable and affordable to you.!!

    nem
    The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
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  19. #19
    jon1965's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    It may or may not be relevant but the OP is in a different jurisdiction to certainly me FP and Nem

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Quote Originally Posted by jon1965 View Post
    It may or may not be relevant but the OP is in a different jurisdiction to certainly me FP and Nem
    I see you've checked the OP's profile. :high5: I thought that info was no longer on profiles, I remember looking at some and it just wasn't there. Maybe it's been made optional. :noidea:

    The Consumer Credit Act applies equally to England and Wales, Scotland and NI, however, if it went to court then it would certainly make a difference.

  21. #21
    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Well the unthinkable has happened. Today I received a thick envelope from Lowell including all the statements again but also full terms and conditions and a copy of an original signed agreement dated 10/09/98.

    They are giving me 30 days to propose repaying the amount owed. It's only taken Capital One 5 years and 8 months to supply the correct documents. 30 days leaves 3 months until the debt is timed out. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

  22. #22
    nemesis45's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Quote Originally Posted by Torquemadder View Post
    Well the unthinkable has happened. Today I received a thick envelope from Lowell including all the statements again but also full terms and conditions and a copy of an original signed agreement dated 10/09/98.

    They are giving me 30 days to propose repaying the amount owed. It's only taken Capital One 5 years and 7 months to supply the correct documents. 30 days leaves 3 months until the debt is timed out. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
    Hi well Lowell must have been very determined to nail this debt, but just because they have provided this data it does not necessarily mean what has been provided is enforceable.

    It would be helpful to see the documents provided id possible.

    nem
    The Advice I Give and Draft Letters Provided Are Drawn From Personal Experience and Career Training And Are Given Freely And Without Liability.
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  23. #23
    Torquemadder's Avatar

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    Just firing up the old scanner now, Nem. Do you want the terms and conditions pages as well as the agreement?

    You remind me of my old regimental motto - In arduis fidelis

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    deleted scan

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    Default Re: Lowell Financial non compliance of CCA

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by Torquemadder; 6th August 2015 at 21:04:PM.

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