Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

**des8** · 4th July 2015, 19:47:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

Hi and welcome.
As it's weekend and Wimbledon is playing out on TV it might take a little while before folks comment.

Firstly it seems sad, that after supporting your son through his education he should be threatening to sue you.
IMO, however, he has no case.
The legacy was yours, to help with his education. You have done that. Whether you did it by investing the cash and using the interest, or by using the capital itself
doesn't mean that any surplus is your sons.
I wonder if the legacy actually covered the full cost of your son's education anyway.
I suspect like most parents you supported you son through education to the best of your ability and used the legacy as an additional source of help.
Possibly that support totalled more than the legacy anyway.

With hindsight it might have been advisable to have used the money to set up a discretionary trust

I'm sure other more knowledgeable beagles will be along over the weekend

**cracker47** · 4th July 2015, 20:34:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

Originally posted by des8 View Post

Hi and welcome.
As it's weekend and Wimbledon is playing out on TV it might take a little while before folks comment.

Firstly it seems sad, that after supporting your son through his education he should be threatening to sue you.
IMO, however, he has no case.
The legacy was yours, to help with his education. You have done that. Whether you did it by investing the cash and using the interest, or by using the capital itself
doesn't mean that any surplus is your sons.
I wonder if the legacy actually covered the full cost of your son's education anyway.
I suspect like most parents you supported you son through education to the best of your ability and used the legacy as an additional source of help.
Possibly that support totalled more than the legacy anyway.

With hindsight it might have been advisable to have used the money to set up a discretionary trust

I'm sure other more knowledgeable beagles will be along over the weekend

Thankyou for your prompt reply , I have not slept in days as was unsure of my rights....(stress)
So in a nutshell, he has no-recourse to sue me on the grounds that he wants more now, in the future etc? I take it thus then that I have full discretionary rights as to how the legacy is controlled? Was I compelled to tell him of the legacy? As he was a named third party , ie for his education , can he challenge how I dispense the funds in any way, (should he wish to tackle a Masters degree etc..? )

My family, brothers etc are all furious with me saying I should have given it all to him years ago? He phoned them when he accessed the will and said I didnt help him sufficiently and have deceived him and them? My phone has been ringing constantly , the number - a law firm...I havent responded to that. Feeling slightly better after your response..thankyou again.

**des8** · 4th July 2015, 21:03:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

What I say is only an opinion and might well be incorrect.
However it seems to me the money was left for you to use as if in a trust.
You are the trustee and decide when and how the support is given.
You do not have to hand over control of it to your son, as you suggest he might go on for further higher education at which time you could provide further support.
I do think however you should (if not already done) prepare accounts showing what payments have been made in support of your son. These should not just be direct payments to him, but every single bit of assistance.
If things are unhappily turning nasty, be prepared to defend yourself.

You were under no obligation to advise him of the legacy, and it was for you to decide what "to help with his education" encompassed.

**paulajayne** · 4th July 2015, 21:04:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

Money was left to you not him. Yes it was to assist him with education but you rightly have control over it to dispense as you see fit.

You did not need to inform him or anyone else of its existence.

**nemesis45** · 5th July 2015, 15:59:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

No doubt the son has no claim on this money you are using
it as the term of the will set down

nem

**cracker47** · 7th July 2015, 16:30:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

help please.....further developments have ensued and it has been made clear to me that my son is to pursue the matter in the courts.....He is demanding that I stand as a guarantor on a 40 000 pound loan which he wants to go and study in the USA, should I not hand over the money, I have said that it is not possible. He has said he is allowed to ask for the money from the estate as it was left for his education...
Problem 1- the bulk of the money left is now in shares, which I invested for his future....and the aspect of his threatening behaviour leaves me less inclined to help in any way or form. (he has completed 3 degrees to date)
Do I have the right to say no? Legally can a court force me to pay out to him, as I was the named beneficiary and he is a discretionary beneficiary . He says the fact that he is mentioned in getting help from this money, entitles him to all of it...the issue has split my family down the middle and everyone thinks I am the bad father now...
Emotions aside, the legal ramifications concern me the most....can a judge overturn my discretionary rights in favour of my son as he is named, but is not a primary recipient? I have been phoned a few times from a law firm in London today, but have not responded to those calls, and no messages were left. I have made an appointment with a solicitor on Thursday to get some sort of clarification as the stress of this all is affecting my work, me personally and my partner.
I am going to try and find the one sentence that was sent to me, but its 4 years back now...but I know there were no stipulations as to how the money was to be dispensed, nothing at all.
thanks for any feedback on this as Im super stressed over all this today...

**Crazy council** · 7th July 2015, 16:47:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

It may come down to interpretation of the wording of the will, and maybe, even what country the will was written inl, but, that's his fight to prove.

Sometimes you know whats not right for your kids, and standing your ground as a parent can be difficult, but thats probebly why you was left the money.. Have you tallied up all what it costs to put your son through education, as well as any monthly support you gave him, was he staying at home anytime, or did you help with other things.

If you going to stand firm on this, dont disclose any documents to anyone who enquires unless your legaly compelled to. It may be worth taking the will to a legal specialist ( or any docs you have ), just to make sure yourself

**cracker47** · 7th July 2015, 17:04:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

I just located the will....found it...so here is the wording...

In terms of his Last Will and Testament dated 7 July 2010, you have been bequeathed a cash legacy and special bequest. We quote the relevant clause below:“A single cash amount of (amount) to my good friend (my name), at present of England”“I express the wish that he apply the funds for the maintenance and education of his son (Junior).”

I helped him monthly via debit order for years now plus other amounts when he needed them...all have gone through my bank so statements are available. I did not tell him of anything as no-one said I had too...and I felt it was the safer bet , with other members of my family not inheriting...
Does the exact wording here help to my rights in this....? Thanks for the reply...

**cracker47** · 7th July 2015, 17:10:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

the will was written in South Africa....I have read somewhere that wishes and requests are not legally binding...is this true?

**Kati** · 7th July 2015, 17:20:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

I express the wish that he apply the funds for the maintenance and education of his son

sounds (to me) like it was given to you 'in trust' and you were to decide how to use it to further your son's education - I do, however, think you need to seek professional advice.

**cracker47** · 7th July 2015, 17:32:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

thanks for the reply...managed to get an appointment with a solicitor on Thursday...so really hoping to get some answers...and sleep.....(eventually) It seems a nightmare at present...own son taking Dad to court?? Just seems so wrong on all levels...?

**paulajayne** · 7th July 2015, 18:49:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

If he is playing games - as it looks like - total up ALL the money you have supplied for his education so far and keep a record on this.
I would particularly look at all monies you have helped him with since the date of the will 7 July 2010.

Do not stand as a guarantor as if he fails to pay then you will be left with the debt.
If he has three degrees then let him find work and earn the 40K or get his credit standing sorted so that he alone may borrow the monies required.

With a threat to sue you I think it is time to cut the apron strings.

Does he know how much money is involved?

**MissFM** · 7th July 2015, 18:53:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

What I find intriguing is that the wording seems (to me) to be specifically designed so as to not be legally binding or enforceable.

It would have been easy to create, or to stipulate that the money be put into, a trust with your son as sole beneficiary for such and such a purpose - but he hasn't done that, he's left the money to you.

I't'll be interesting to see what your solicitor says, because I don't personally think a wish expressed as quoted above can have any legal enforceability. You have only to look at the number of large bequests - of, for example, land - bequeathed with provisors (such as "not to be built on" etc) where the testator's wishes (even though apparently a condition written in stone) are subsequently set aside, to see how difficult it is to make a bequest and control what is done with it by the recipient.

As we don't know the background to this - the age of your son at the time, his relationship to the testator, whether you were experiencing financial difficulties in educating your son, etc., it's impossible to comment on the moral implications or the reaction of your wider family. On the face of it, you've done nothing wrong at all.

Families, eh? :tinysmile_hmm_t2: x

**Kati** · 7th July 2015, 19:07:PM

Re: Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

Originally posted by MissFM View Post

What I find intriguing is that the wording seems (to me) to be specifically designed so as to not be legally binding or enforceable.

exactly ... it reads as if it was the persons' wish not an order or a binding clause.

Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

Help - named as a beneficiary with a request attached - my rights?

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