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Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

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  • #16
    Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

    It is key that the wording appears if not it's non compliant.
    Not still on your scanner??

    nem

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

      Nem

      It does yes below the Applicant's Signature before I sign it. I have no terms and no-one has ever provided them too me!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

        It says through the blur 'This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign only if you want to be legally bound by its terms. I thought it was non-compliant if it shows non of the prescribed terms where the signature is! Is this not the case?

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

          Originally posted by madhatter View Post
          It says through the blur 'This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Sign only if you want to be legally bound by its terms. I thought it was non-compliant if it shows non of the prescribed terms where the signature is! Is this not the case?
          It would be impractical to list all the prescribed terms right next to the signature for reasons of space. Although I'm unable to read the wording, I can't see how all the prescribed terms could be contained within those boxes at the bottom of the form. They may have been on the reverse of the form, is that all they sent?

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

            I would reject it as being in complete i.e. lacking all the necessary Ts & Cs.
            It could be argued that this is only an app and does not prove an account was opened, BUT English
            Civil Law is based on the " balance of probabilities" this principal applies at all levels justice.
            A judge would determine on this given the app form and evidence that a credit facility was utilised.

            nem

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

              Yes this is all that was sent to me. It was a card with Bank of Scotland who sold the account to MBNA. What can my response be to ARC? Please Is it a case of requesting a legible copy of the original terms that were with the Application form at the time of signing?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

                Originally posted by nemesis45 View Post
                I would reject it as being in complete i.e. lacking all the necessary Ts & Cs.
                It could be argued that this is only an app and does not prove an account was opened, BUT English
                Civil Law is based on the " balance of probabilities" this principal applies at all levels justice.
                A judge would determine on this given the app form and evidence that a credit facility was utilised.

                nem
                The main aim here is to avoid getting to this stage though.

                If the prescribed terms were not presented to the OP when opening the account, this could not be enforceable in court either, however, that would depend on what assertions the OP would be able to make with regards to what was presented to them.

                I'd say from a point of view of s.78 I'd say it doesn't comply as it's incomplete.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

                  Thanks Flaming Parrot - so my reply to ARC will be that the Application photocopy alone is not compliant with S.78 and therefore remains unenforceable?? I don't want to screw up the reply! I'll have a good look tomorrow for the documents - I must have filed them away somewhere where they wouldn't get lost literally. In the meantime, shall I just write to ARC saying that I will be in contact with them shortly will my response. Thanks

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

                    Madhatter,
                    Where was the app form signed in you home and posted or on bank premises?
                    Do you remember if any documents were supplied the card or on signing the app.

                    nem

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

                      Originally posted by madhatter View Post
                      Thanks Flaming Parrot - so my reply to ARC will be that the Application photocopy alone is not compliant with S.78 and therefore remains unenforceable?? I don't want to screw up the reply! I'll have a good look tomorrow for the documents - I must have filed them away somewhere where they wouldn't get lost literally. In the meantime, shall I just write to ARC saying that I will be in contact with them shortly will my response. Thanks
                      Originally posted by madhatter View Post
                      Yes this is all that was sent to me. It was a card with Bank of Scotland who sold the account to MBNA. What can my response be to ARC? Please Is it a case of requesting a legible copy of the original terms that were with the Application form at the time of signing?
                      I received a similar response from RBS when I sent them a CCA request, the front of an application form without terms. I sent back a letter similar as the one below, which I've updated as it has been a few years since then. I've not heard a peep about this account for 3 years now. :grin: :clock:

                      Dear Sirs

                      ​Account No: [XX/XX/XXXX]

                      Thank you for your letter dated [XX/XX/XXXX], the contents of which are noted.

                      Your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. ​On [XX/XX/XXXX] I wrote requesting a copy of the credit agreement for the above account pursuant to s.78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. In response to this request I received a document that did not comply with the requirements of the Act, as it is just an application form and does not contain all the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) of the Act, therefore the document supplied does not constitute a ‘true copy’ of my agreement.

                      I now draw your attention to section 78(6) which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states:
                      127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

                      Based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this account as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

                      I require that you comply with my request and will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I trust this outlines the situation.

                      Yours faithfully,

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

                        Nem I signed the Application Form at home then posted. I believe it was like a tri folded application form that you used to get from inside magazines - this one may have been in a horse mag as it was horse related charity I opted for lol!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

                          Originally posted by madhatter View Post
                          Nem I signed the Application Form at home then posted. I believe it was like a tri folded application form that you used to get from inside magazines - this one may have been in a horse mag as it was horse related charity I opted for lol!
                          In that case, it's very likely the prescribed terms WOULD NOT have been on the reverse,, they may have been sent to you later, probably with the card.. A lot of such magazine applications are unenforceable for that reason, under s.127, however, I'd be saving this fact for later, if they issued court papers then you could explain why you can assert that the prescribed terms were not present at the time you entered into a credit agreement.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

                            Letter sent to ARC which they should receive today! Wonder what they'll do next? It seems every move I make, they come back with something else! I guess it's a great tactic for them as I said before to wear you down and agree a payment plan! :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

                              This type of "application" in magazines usually resulted ( if accepted) in the T's & C's being provide in a booklet when the card is issued.
                              Making the form provided non compliant with the CCA request in my opinion.

                              nem

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Arc Europe & MBNA - Arrow Global

                                Umm you'll never guess what has come in the post today??? A letter from ARC Europe saying 'in response to your recent correspondence, please be advised that this account is no longer with us and has been referred back to their client. Any future correspondence should be directed to our client'.

                                Be interesting to see what Arrow Global do next.... anyone any experience of this or will they simply send it to another DCA where I have to start the whole process again

                                Comment

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