another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

[Kati]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

Hand sign it (if you're worried about them using your signature use an 'anti tamper strip')

[nemesis45]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

Never seen any proof of signature lifting from a CCA request, somewhat an " urban myth" I think.
nem

[getitforless]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

Time for a trip to the post office.

I will keep the thread updated with all progress over the coming weeks.

Cheers

[getitforless]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

Hi all.

I have another DCA chasing me (1st credit) in relation to a defaulted Lloyds TSB account, loaded with overdraft fee's etc - of which I am currently in the process of totting up the fee's I incurred over the years at the moment I think its about £1300 fee's & £700 true debt.

I'm aware that I should start a new thread to find out how to proceed with communications, please can anyone advise which is the best forum to start a new thread on?

[Kati]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

Hi all.

I have another DCA chasing me (1st credit) in relation to a defaulted Lloyds TSB account, loaded with overdraft fee's etc - of which I am currently in the process of totting up the fee's I incurred over the years at the moment I think its about £1300 fee's & £700 true debt.

I'm aware that I should start a new thread to find out how to proceed with communications, please can anyone advise which is the best forum to start a new thread on?

You could start a new thread in the DCA section (http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ction-Agencies) - as a matter of fact I've just moved this thread there too :lol:

K xx

[getitforless]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

Cheers.

[getitforless]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

Hi All.

Just a quick update..

Both the CCA request (sent to Howard & Cohen) & the LBA response (sent to HPH2 Ltd) were posted on the 16th as previously discussed in this thread. Not heard anything back yet (both been delivered and signed for though :tinysmile_twink_t2.

I have now received two letters for Robinsons Way in relation to the alleged debt both dated 14/02/2015. One of which is a template response letter to the goodf process that I had started before joining this forum, and I have also received an additional letter (please see attached) saying that they acknowledge the recent update I have provided, and please ensure that we have your proposal for payment on this account within a two week period?

Is this normal, I haven't acknowledgement the alleged debt at any point, further to that all I have requested is proof that the debt actually exists with Robinsons / Howard / HPH2. Does this last letter warrant a response. Or should I carry on as previously discussed in this thread?

[getitforless]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

Hi can anybody help / comment on the above?

Cheers

[SicknTired]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

About 3 years ago, I found myself in just over 5k of debt. I called StepChange and they helped me sort everything out. I'm now debt free.

Unless there's any other suggestions from the good folk of the forum, I'd recommend getting in touch with StepChange and discussing matters with them.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

I see you have already responded to their LBA with my letter, well done for finding it. :clap2:

Don't worry about their use of the word 'acknowledge', THEY are acknowledging your response, it doesn't mean you are acknowledging the debt so don't worry about that. It's just a template letter. The idea of responding to the LBA is to make them think twice before issuing a claim, chances are, they won't be able to produce the documents. A lot of people who have used the letter have seen the solicitors fly away after receiving it for that precise reason. :tinysmile_twink_t2:

I've noted Howard Cohen are acting for Santander, there's a rather well known case where they both (Santander & Howard Cohen) LOST after issuing a claim for a credit card that was unenforceable. :music: Would you care to tell us a bit more about this Santander debt? Where did it come from? Was it a credit card issued by another bank?

As for Stepchange, yes, they can help but they don't do anything you couldn't do yourself. Do bear in mind they will get you to make a repayment offer and if you do so, then you WOULD most certainly be ACKNOWLEDGING THE DEBT. :scared: :scared: :scared: I wouldn't suggest doing that at this stage. :nono:

[Don Quixote]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

Never seen any proof of signature lifting from a CCA request, somewhat an " urban myth" I think.
nem

Absolutely NOT an urban myth, nem! Has certainly happened extensively in the past, but consumers have become wise to it. Very unlikely to happen now, though, with reputable (ahem) companies.



See also this, about an LB member:

http://www.theguardian.com/money/201...nature-forgery

Goodness knows how many instances like this have gone undetected.

Anyway, back to the claim – FlamingP’s excellent letter is effectively issuing a CPR 31.14 request BEFORE any claim is issued, under the aegis of the ‘overriding objective’. If they proceed to court without proper answers, it will complicate their case. But, as FlamingP also implies, we need more info on this – because you have not indicated yet what your defence to the claim might be. If they come up with all the documents, what will you do then?

Give us the history – do you know the last date on which you acknowledged the account, for example?

[Don Quixote]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

Just another point for Beaglers to tuck away in the armoury – there is an alternative to FlamingP’s method, by using CPR 31.16, for disclosure of documents before proceedings start.

The footnote to 31.16 is: “An application for disclosure before proceedings have started is permitted under section 33 of the Supreme Court Act 1981 (c.54) or section 52 of the County Courts Act 1984 (c.28).”

However, the downside here is that you would have to make an application to the court, which would incur a fee (a blooming great big fee from April).

[nemesis45]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

That is so far out of date it refers to an offence for non compliance with a CCA request and was as far as I know was reconstituting agreements Not signature lifting.
The creating of "further" loans within a banks internal department was identified and was I believe the action of one employee.
In more than 20+ years dealing with consumer debt problems I have not seen any proven lifting of signatures by DCA's the RBS/ NatWest situation
has not been repeated.

nem

[Don Quixote]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

That is so far out of date it refers to an offence for non compliance with a CCA request and was as far as I know was reconstituting agreements Not signature lifting.
The creating of "further" loans within a banks internal department was identified and was I believe the action of one employee.
In more than 20+ years dealing with consumer debt problems I have not seen any proven lifting of signatures by DCA's the RBS/ NatWest situation
has not been repeated.

nem

Morning nem.

RBS’s own internal document – 65 instances amounting to £250k – states these recreations were purely in response to CCA requests. Even at this time (2007), banks were legally allowed to recreate contracts (as per CCA 1974), but should have stated that’s what was being done. So why would RBS need to ‘reconstitute’ the ‘style’ of the document, other than to attempt to pass it off as a real (rather than ‘true’) copy of the original? We don’t know exactly what RBS recreated, and we don’t know who the reconstituted agreements were sent to. But it saved RBS over £250k, apparently.

As for being ‘so far out of date’, that is just not the case in practical terms – it’s only two years beyond the limitation period. Many people are being chased for accounts from well before this. Fortunately, the Carey case clarified many of the issues relating to the recreation of CC agreements.

‘Proven lifting’ is an interesting concept, and one I acknowledge is literally true but I don’t believe is the reality. Banks simply would not ever admit to not doing things by the book.

I have a recent example. I helped someone in a credit card debt claim recently – I have the documents – in which the CCA copy produced was literally impossible due to provable circumstances, but apparently bore the debtor’s signature. For reasons I have verified, the debtor could not possibly have signed that particular document, or else the original signed document had been doctored on or around the time any agreement was entered into. When confronted with this forensic evidence, the claim was quietly dropped. So I know it does happen.

Over the years I’ve encountered only three other examples of signatures not looking right on agreements, and signed documents not complying with what the debtor remembers signing. In all three cases, the claims were dropped when the claimant was confronted with the anomalies. Even if a County Court claim had been successfully defended, this would not legally amount to ‘proof’.

(I can also prove certain debt buyers/DCAs have forged documents presented to the court, but that’s another story...)

On the basis that it didn’t happen if it wasn’t proven, then a well-known dead paedophile is surely innocent. Ditto, to say the RBS/NatWest situation has not been repeated also could mean no further instances have been discovered.

No bank ever admits to forging signatures – even in Phil’s case, they didn’t actually admit it, though it had clearly happened. And it wasn’t a ‘further’ loan – just a careless redrafting of the original application to remove PPI, so it wasn’t just an ‘internal’ issue – the only reason it was discovered was because of a request to see it, a request most customers would never make.

The old-fashioned concept that financial institutions are upright or won’t do anything naughty to benefit themselves is, these days, regrettably laughable.

That said, I acknowledge your point about no cases being ‘proven’. And I did say I don’t believe it would happen now.

[getitforless]

Re: another newbie looking for help with / dca's - robinson way & howard cohen

I see you have already responded to their LBA with my letter, well done for finding it. :clap2:

Don't worry about their use of the word 'acknowledge', THEY are acknowledging your response, it doesn't mean you are acknowledging the debt so don't worry about that. It's just a template letter. The idea of responding to the LBA is to make them think twice before issuing a claim, chances are, they won't be able to produce the documents. A lot of people who have used the letter have seen the solicitors fly away after receiving it for that precise reason. :tinysmile_twink_t2:

I've noted Howard Cohen are acting for Santander, there's a rather well known case where they both (Santander & Howard Cohen) LOST after issuing a claim for a credit card that was unenforceable. :music: Would you care to tell us a bit more about this Santander debt? Where did it come from? Was it a credit card issued by another bank?

As for Stepchange, yes, they can help but they don't do anything you couldn't do yourself. Do bear in mind they will get you to make a repayment offer and if you do so, then you WOULD most certainly be ACKNOWLEDGING THE DEBT. :scared: :scared: :scared: I wouldn't suggest doing that at this stage. :nono:

Thanks for the feedback FlamingParrot.

The alleged Santander debt originated from an Abbey Credit Card, taken out at the start of 2007 (No PPI as far as I'm aware), the last payment / acknowledgement of the account was august 2008 & a default was listed dec 2009 (updated on CRA jan 2010).

Always interested in reading success stories, is there any chance of sharing the thread for the Santander & Howard Cohen case that you mentioned above? I've tried the search "Santander Howard Cohen" a few times to no avail.

Huge :thumb: to the LB forums, I'll be sticking to the advice for the foreseeable eace: