Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working request?

[poorlittlefish]

I accepted my role because it was agreed with my then-manager that I could work my hours flexibly. She left a couple of months after I started. The new manager didn't raise any objections about my work pattern and notes/emails from her implied she accepted it. There had been no problems with the pattern I was working; in fact it brought several benefits. On deciding to take on an OU degree, which would involve a lot of studying from home, I was concerned there was nothing written down about my hours, so decided to make a formal request. Not only was it rejected out of hand, but I was told that I must start working rigid hours and take an hour's unpaid break (I've always had 30 mins) to make me the same as everyone else. I submitted an appeal but got nowhere, so I have now submitted a grievance because the company didn't adhere to the legislative timescales or prescribed reasons.

They have said I must start working the new rigid hours when I return from leave at the start of January. The new hours will make my commute even longer than it is already and reduce the time I have for studying, thus putting me in a worse position than I was before applying for the flexible working I already had (verbally). I am concerned that if I refuse to accept the longer unpaid break and continue to leave at the same time I always have done (having worked my contracted hours), I could be subjected to a disciplinary. On the other hand, if I start complying with the imposed hours, even under protest, then case law I've read seems to imply that I will have accepted them. My contract states the overall number of hours I must work, but not the times.

What would be the best course of action that will protect me in this situation? Thanks.

[teaboy2]

Re: Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working reque

The previous manager verbally agreed to your working the flexible hours - Do you have any evidence showing you were working flexible hours?

When your manager originally agreed, and as no one brought up any concerns about your hours prior to you asking for written terms confirming the hours your worked. Then the flexible hours are an implied term of your contract of employment, you didn't need to apply for flexible hours again as you were already on them! The company can not force you to work the imposed hours, nor can they discipline you for not working them, as it would be them that are in breach of contract, not you. I.e. your contracted hours are, unless you agree otherwise, the same flexible hours you have been working between your previous manager agreeing to your original flexible working hours and now.; Not only that but under the employment rights act 1996, you are also entitled to time of for study, so they would be in breach of your statutory right to take time of to study under Part 6A of the employment rights act 1996 (I'm assuming your request was both a request for time of too study and flexible hours when your original manager agreed).

Your best course of action now is to contact ACAS, as they would be the next step towards tribunal and any attempt to discipline you for asserting your statutory right to work flexible hours previously agreed, or take time of to study, would amount to automatic unfair dismissal (if dismissed) or breach your right not to be treated with detriment (disciplined) for asserting your rights! - Note: 2 year qualifying period for taking tribunal action does not apply in cases of "automatic unfair dismissal" which is different to the usually "unfair dismissal" cases!

[stevemLS]

Re: Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working reque

teaboy, you're off on one again. OP nowhere suggests that they have asked for time off for study which in any event would apply only if the OU degree was work related which at the moment there is no suggestion that it is.

I also do not share your certainty about the flexible hours issue and contractual terms are not implied nearly so easily as you assert.

[teaboy2]

Re: Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working reque

teaboy, you're off on one again. OP nowhere suggests that they have asked for time off for study which in any event would apply only if the OU degree was work related which at the moment there is no suggestion that it is.

I also do not share your certainty about the flexible hours issue and contractual terms are not implied nearly so easily as you assert.

Perhaps you missed the part in brackets where i said "(I'm assuming your request was both a request for time of too study and flexible hours when your original manager agreed)."

As per the flexible hours, well sorry but if the previous manager agreed to those hours, if the OP was paid for those hours then they are implied terms as they have clearly been agreed, and more importantly ESTABLISHED!

As for the OU Degree being work related. Sorry, but it doesn't have to be work related at all!! As section 63A makes clear that it applies to study where its purpose would increase the employees effectiveness or the performance of the employers business. So NO it doesn't have to be work related study!! It can be any degree that would be beneficial to both the OP's work or to the company as a whole! If for example, doing an accountancy degree made the employee more efficient in processing invoices etc as say an sales room accountant manager (i.e. sales Representative) then they would be entitled to time of to study, on that basis!

In any case the right to time off to study is a de minimis issue, as the core issue is the flexible working issue

Learn to read, and stop pulling people up just because you do not agree with their advice.

Or alternatively, simply post your own opinion or advice, without pulling other up! As clearly it is you that is off on one, as you have a habit of deliberately trying to bait me into arguments with you! You lost the last one, and you will loose this one! As its not just a simple matter of employment law, but a matter of contractual law!! Once two parties agree to a variation of the terms of a contract (in this case the OP and original manager acting as the employers representative) one party can not then simply revert back to the previous terms without the consent of the other party!

Oh and as for "and contractual terms are not implied nearly so easily as you assert." - Why do you think i asked the OP if they had evidence of working the flexible hours in my very first bloody sentence!!!

Forgot to add, if you read the start of the OP's post he/she clearly states "accepted the role because it was agreed" Therefore making it clear the hours of work were agreed and are a core term of the OP's contract, but no written contract has been given to the OP!

[stevemLS]

Re: Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working reque

OK, we'll agree to disagree again (on this as well as on the issue of winning and losing) - it does OP no good to see us squabbling.

[teaboy2]

Re: Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working reque

Agreed!

[poorlittlefish]

Re: Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working reque

Thank you for your replies. I have time sheets dating back to June which were sent to my (new) manager on a monthly basis from that point (IT configured my account wrongly and managed to permanently delete absolutely everything - work included - prior to then). I have an email from from July in which my manager acknowledged that I worked flexibly and the notes she made from a review meeting held in September, under the heading of Time Sheets, in which she asked me to make sure I don't take less than 30 mins for lunch but raised no other points. It was at the end of that review meeting that I handed her my flexible working application.

The OU degree is in Law, which arguably applies to every facet of life. I was told, in the flexible working appeal meeting, that my course would have to "directly benefit" the company in order for it to be given consideration for flexible working (the studies are done in my own time and at my own expense).

[teaboy2]

Re: Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working reque

Thank you for your replies. I have time sheets dating back to June which were sent to my (new) manager on a monthly basis from that point (IT configured my account wrongly and managed to permanently delete absolutely everything - work included - prior to then). I have an email from from July in which my manager acknowledged that I worked flexibly and the notes she made from a review meeting held in September, under the heading of Time Sheets, in which she asked me to make sure I don't take less than 30 mins for lunch but raised no other points. It was at the end of that review meeting that I handed her my flexible working application.

Right so you were already working flexible hours then and they have basically given you written acknowledgement of that in the emails and you have evidence in the copies of the time sheets! So that confirms your contracted hours as being the ones you were working! Therefore they can not force you to work the hours they are demanding off you in January, nor can they discipline you for refusing to do so! Simply write to them informing them, that you do not agree to a variation of your hours of work, inform them you have written evidence confirming their acknowledgement of the hours you worked, along with time sheets etc! Advise them that should they continue to try and force you to work hours that you are not contracted to work nor have you consented to working, you will deem them as in breach of contract! Same if they treat you detrimentally for enforcing your contracted hours and rights by disciplining you or treating you less favorably to others for refusing to agree to a variation of the terms of your contract in regards to your hours of work!

The OU degree is in Law, which arguably applies to every facet of life. I was told, in the flexible working appeal meeting, that my course would have to "directly benefit" the company in order for it to be given consideration for flexible working (the studies are done in my own time and at my own expense).

Ok safe to say we need to forget about the studying then, given it would be in your own time and is not a factor in this. Basically the issue is just about flexible working hours and contracted hours only

See above in red.

Can i ask, were you working for the company prior to accepting a new role? or was this a new job that you started?

[enaid]

Re: Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working reque

Are we all settled now and helping the OP as best you can?
Opinions are always appreciated, but when you differ please try and keep it off the thread, chat box and pm is available to use till you sort it out.
Thanks Enaid x

[poorlittlefish]

Re: Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working reque

No, I wasn't already working for them. It was a completely new role, so I wasn't taking over from a previous post-holder either.

[teaboy2]

Re: Disciplinary if I don't work rigid hours imposed following flexible working reque

Ok so prior to taking on the role, you were not employed at all by them?

But when you did take on the role, you negotiated with the original manager what your hours would be prior to accepting the role?

If answer is yes to both, then as i stated before your contracted hours are the hours you agreed with the original manager, the employer can not force you to work hours outside of your contracted hours. By that i mean, they can not change your starting and finishing time, your lunch break duration or the amount of hours per week you work, without your consent/agreement to such!

In fact you may also point out to them that they are already in breach of the employment rights act 1996 for failing to provide you with a written contract within 2 months of your employment starting!