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Thread: OneSure insurance scam or not?

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  1. #1
    Terlouw Advice's Avatar

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    Default OneSure insurance scam or not?

    I was asked by a client to check out a Judgement he received, which came from OneSure insurances. They asked him to pay £800,- for a cancelled policy. He did alrady pay £500,- deposit over the phone. So it would total £ 1300,- for a policy worth £1500,- a year. I called them, they said he cancelled after a month he said after 4 days. To make sure who told the truth I decided to call to the company whi sold the insurance in the first place. Which is Alpha group in Denmark. In the attachment you can see a screenshot from the email I received this morning.
    .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Screenshot_2014-12-08-10-28-24.jpg  

  2. #2
    Tools's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    I would suggest you speak with BIBA (no,not Justin) http://www.biba.org.uk/
    Any opinions I give are my own. Any advice I give is without liability. If you are unsure, please seek qualified legal advice.

    IF WE HAVE HELPED YOU PLEASE CONSIDER UPGRADING TO VIP - click here


  3. #3
    Terlouw Advice's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tools View Post
    I would suggest you speak with BIBA (no,not Justin) http://www.biba.org.uk/
    But first I asked them to return his money and to drop anything they brought to court.

  4. #4
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    On the other documents it refers to UK Insurance Services - where do they come into it ? ie. OneSure Insurance and UK Insurance are different companies ?
    Do you have a copy of the judgment from the court at all ?
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

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    des8's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tools View Post
    I would suggest you speak with BIBA (no,not Justin) http://www.biba.org.uk/
    As they don't appear to be members of BIBA probably not much mileage theremasred:

    We had dealings on LB with Onesure earlier this year.
    I note the Alpha group were talking about Excess Insurance, but the premiums you mentioned bear no relationship to what one would expect for that sort of policy for a private individual.
    Any chance you could post up relevant policy together with schedule, premiums and manner of payment (all redacted)?

  6. #6
    Terlouw Advice's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    On the other documents it refers to UK Insurance Services - where do they come into it ? ie. OneSure Insurance and UK Insurance are different companies ?
    Do you have a copy of the judgment from the court at all ?
    Sorry, I was late back.
    The documents refer to UK Insurance Solutions because they arranged the insurance that came from Alpha group in Denmark.

    I have the original Judgement here which states OneSure Insurances.

    I started this case with calling to Denmark about the end date of the policy, as I was sure that my
    client did cancel the insurance after 4 days. So I was thinking by calling to Denmark I can confirm this date.
    But to my surprise they were even more surprised about this, and asked me to send a scan of the document (Schedule)
    After that very quick they responded with an email stating that they think it is a false document.

    In the meantime I did (finally) had contact with a man from OneSure who did not just read from a paper.
    He confirmed in email that OneSure have no connections with UK Insurance Solutions and never had.
    When I send him a scan of the document he changed that to "We deal with underwriters to provide insurance and products to clients."
    So they do know them. (obviously as I have a document where it is black on white)
    But after that he also mentioned; and I quote: "I feel we are not getting anywhere with this conversation."
    While I was thinking I was getting to a big climax.

    I do have to mention that this is an extra policy which is covering the Excess. But that does not mean that it can be fake.
    The traders policy itself is made through One Sure with PolicyPlan, and from there I am still waiting for the papers that confirm the end date.

  7. #7
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    YEs there was something about OneSure earlier this year.

    I'm not sure where OneSure have got involved in this. The Judgment is from OneSure thus it is OneSure that brought the claim, thus I'm not sure how they can be denying having anything to do with it. I think it would be better to see the copies of the documents really.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  8. #8
    Terlouw Advice's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Here are some papers.
    One is the policy which is false (according to the 2 companies mentioned on it)
    And the other one a Paper where this Excess policy is mentioned by OneSure in the calculation.
    Attachments Pending Approval Attachments Pending Approval

  9. #9
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Ah that makes more sense, thanks Patrick, so One_Sure are the broker, and it is Motor Traders Insurance.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  10. #10
    des8's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    So your client has a motor traders policy,broker Onesure & Underwritten by insurers through the Policyplan underwriting agency.
    He also had an Excess policy through Onesure , ostensibly underwritten by Alpha through UK insurance solutions.
    Alpha deny all knowledge of this and say it is fraudulent.

    I would be reporting this to action fraud and be contemplating action against UK insurance. (and possibly Onesure if they were complicit in it)

  11. #11
    Terlouw Advice's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    In all this the big problem was/is that my client did cancel the policy after 4 days. (this because he did not know he
    would not receive a No Claim after being second driver)
    He knew that there was a cancellation fee of £50,- but not that it would be almost £1300,-
    But now they state that there is a cancellation fee for every policy, which would be 3 in total and the missed arrangement fee for them.
    That is how I came to call Alpha group as they have a full refund arrangement if you cancel in 14 days.

    Back to the judgment, I advised my client to go back as he was not informed about this untill he received the judgment and........!
    Very important and where I would like to have you opinion about;
    When a Debt recovery company (Cobra Debt Recovery, still not sure if they were licensed at that time) send a notice that they
    want to go to court on 02 May 2014 with a (blanc) copy of a claim form.
    So my client was thinking that it would go to court and there he can say and show his documents regarding cancellation.
    (Maybe not the best way to do, but he did like that)
    But after that in July One Sure started to empty his bank account to recover this money themselves.
    He did go to the bank to reverse this, but still; can they do this?
    They already were on their way to court but next to that they tried to take the money.

  12. #12
    Terlouw Advice's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by des8 View Post
    So your client has a motor traders policy,broker Onesure & Underwritten by insurers through the Policyplan underwriting agency.
    He also had an Excess policy through Onesure , ostensibly underwritten by Alpha through UK insurance solutions.
    Alpha deny all knowledge of this and say it is fraudulent.

    I would be reporting this to action fraud and be contemplating action against UK insurance. (and possibly Onesure if they were complicit in it)
    Yes that I am doing right now. But as far as Alpha Group concerned it is not UK Insurance Solutions but they put the finger to OneSure.
    I think it is OneSure, as they are changing stories as they come up.
    Specially when they say they are not connected but they are on 1 document together.
    Attachments Pending Approval Attachments Pending Approval

  13. #13
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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Regarding the apparent false insurance documentation, I believe the Metropolitan Police Force have a dedicated department for dealing with insurance fraud.
    It might be worth contacting them.

    Regarding the claim brought against him by Onesure it will most likely be made up of
    1)Onesure set up fee (the greatest part of the claim)
    2) Onesure cancellation fees (these are the fees charged by the broker, not the insurer!)
    3)Motor traders insurers charge for time on risk (short term rates apply)
    4)Legal Assistance charge
    5)repayment interest (if premiums being paid monthly)
    6) Direct Debit arrangement fee (possibly)
    7)loss of commission charge
    8) excess insurance premium (?possibly in full and not charged for time on risk)

    Not having seen their claim form this is a best guestimate,

    Regarding Onesure removing the cash from his bank:
    In the past, when people have tried to cancel what they thought was a direct debit or cpa it was discovered that Onesure had illegally stored their card details (including the three digit "security" number) and were taking cash as if authorised by card holder.

  14. #14
    Terlouw Advice's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by des8 View Post
    Regarding the apparent false insurance documentation, I believe the Metropolitan Police Force have a dedicated department for dealing with insurance fraud.
    It might be worth contacting them.

    Regarding the claim brought against him by Onesure it will most likely be made up of
    1)Onesure set up fee (the greatest part of the claim)
    2) Onesure cancellation fees (these are the fees charged by the broker, not the insurer!)
    3)Motor traders insurers charge for time on risk (short term rates apply)
    4)Legal Assistance charge
    5)repayment interest (if premiums being paid monthly)
    6) Direct Debit arrangement fee (possibly)
    7)loss of commission charge
    8) excess insurance premium (?possibly in full and not charged for time on risk)

    Not having seen their claim form this is a best guestimate,

    Regarding Onesure removing the cash from his bank:
    In the past, when people have tried to cancel what they thought was a direct debit or cpa it was discovered that Onesure had illegally stored their card details (including the three digit "security" number) and were taking cash as if authorised by card holder.
    I would like to come back on the card details, as they state in their terms (and confirmed by phone) that they can do this;
    "-You will be required to pay any debit balances promptly, if you fail to settle a debit balance promptly, we will use any credit/ debit card details that you have previously authorised us to use, in order to settle the balance."
    I did tell them on the phone that he thought he only gave his details to pay for the deposit, but they state that they are allowed to do this and that it is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority. (who are not giving any details on request)

  15. #15
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    In the second page of the email it mentions 'this can be dealt with at the court hearing' - is this court claim still on going, has it been adjudged upon, or set aside applied for ?

    Also if OneSure have taken the alleged debt themselves using this alleged CPA - what are they claiming for ?

    ps. OneSure may have a look in tmw.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  16. #16
    Terlouw Advice's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    In the second page of the email it mentions 'this can be dealt with at the court hearing' - is this court claim still on going, has it been adjudged upon, or set aside applied for ?

    Also if OneSure have taken the alleged debt themselves using this alleged CPA - what are they claiming for ?

    ps. OneSure may have a look in tmw.
    We are working on to get it back in court to set aside, just that I am doing from Thursday, but they seem to have system problems.
    But rest assured they did take a note of it and will send out confirmation. (anyway it gives us more time to find more evidence.

    What they are claiming is just a guess as they did not send out any document out for this.
    Over the phone they told me 1 month insurance, cancellation costs, missed arrangements costs, But also the full yearly premium of the excess policy and the legal protection also for a full year. (as they are claiming that money, maybe he can use it? He needs it badly)

  17. #17
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Okay so you've completed your N244 application - what reasons for the set aside have you given, and have you written a defence against the claim to go alongside it ?

    Has the court or claimant sent a copy of the original claim form to you ? (have you asked ?)
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  18. #18
    Terlouw Advice's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
    Okay so you've completed your N244 application - what reasons for the set aside have you given, and have you written a defence against the claim to go alongside it ?

    Has the court or claimant sent a copy of the original claim form to you ? (have you asked ?)
    I have the original here, and yes the form is filled out and sent.
    Just the system does not let them access the claim.
    Which seems just to be a typo, so I have the judgment but the court cannot find it back in the system.
    (can also be that the person just cannot use the system)
    So I did request a confirmation that they received the form (which they did) and after that we wait.
    But to be honest that I don't worry about.

    The main reason is that he did not receive any notice as he was waiting for it.
    He has also proof that he did cancel after 4 days. (which they know, they even confirmed over the phone with me, recorded)
    And of course that a part of this claim is for a product he did not receive.
    And as counter claim he wants part of his deposit back.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    I said "Illegally", which was a slip. (should have written"wrongly")
    I should explain the PCI DSS (Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard) prohibits the storage of card details on disc in plain language and also the retention post authorisation of the CVV code.
    The merchants account agreement will almost certainly state it must not be retained.


    https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org
    Additionally, a number of regulatory bodies are requiring some companies to
    record and store telephone conversations in a range of situations. The
    Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard (PCI DSS), however,
    stipulates that the three-digit or four-digit card verification code or value
    printed on the card (CVV2, CVC2, CID, or CAV2) cannot be retained after
    authorization, and full primary account numbers (PANs) cannot be kept
    without further protection measures.

    If it was a one time authorisation they should (must) not retain the CVV number.

  20. #20
    Terlouw Advice's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by des8 View Post
    I said "Illegally", which was a slip. (should have written"wrongly")
    I should explain the PCI DSS (Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard) prohibits the storage of card details on disc in plain language and also the retention post authorisation of the CVV code.
    The merchants account agreement will almost certainly state it must not be retained.


    https://www.pcisecuritystandards.org
    Additionally, a number of regulatory bodies are requiring some companies to
    record and store telephone conversations in a range of situations. The
    Payment Card Industry Data Security Standard (PCI DSS), however,
    stipulates that the three-digit or four-digit card verification code or value
    printed on the card (CVV2, CVC2, CID, or CAV2) cannot be retained after
    authorization, and full primary account numbers (PANs) cannot be kept
    without further protection measures.

    If it was a one time authorisation they should (must) not retain the CVV number.

    So as he thought it was just for the deposit, which is basically confirmed with giving direct debit details for further monthly payments, means they simply cannot?
    He only knew about the terms after he received them at home.

  21. #21
    des8's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    If he paid a deposit, and set up a direct debit or CPA the CVV number would not be required for further withdrawals.
    And there was the caveat mentioned in your post 14 .

  22. #22
    Amethyst's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    I've unapproved a couple of the attachments as the policy number was left on them. I think Des already has them and team can view them.
    “We may not win by protesting, but if we don’t protest we will lose. If we stand up to them, there is always a chance we will win.” Hetty Bower

    Any advice I provide is given without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Find Solicitors offering fixed fees on our sister site - JustBeagle.com

  23. #23
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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Hi

    I'm a little uncomfortable going into too much detail on here as there were documents posted that could identify the client (albeit these have since been removed). Therefore, once I have concluded my investigations I will contact Terlouw Advice (my clients representative) directly with my findings.

    I will however comment on the issue surrounding the Excess Protection policy schedule, and the comments made by Alpha. Alpha would not recognise this document or the client, as the clients cover was placed with a different underwriter. This document was erroneously sent out by our admin team because an incorrect code was entered into the system. The error did not effect the clients cover, or put them in any worse of a position than they would have been had the correct documentation been sent out. Please understand that by saying this I am not attempting to justify this mistake, I am merely reassuring everyone that there was no fraud, and that the client had the cover that they had been charged for.

  24. #24
    des8's Avatar

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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Thanks for the clarification regarding the excess protection policy.

    Would you now like to comment on the alleged retention of CVV card numbers?
    This is an allegation we have heard here on LB previously.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: OneSure insurance scam or not?

    Good Morning des8

    I can confirm that we do not retain CVV numbers for any card payments that we take.

    I can also confirm that I have specifically checked this clients records and our procedures have functioned correctly meaning that as stated, no CVV number was retained.

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