1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

I'll see if I can merge it into Jon's letter somehow. Or at least mention it to make them aware..

I'm one of those people who'll wait and watch a storm for the lightning.. Hate sudden bomb-like thunder claps in the middle of the night though..!

As with all template letters, they need to be adapted to suit. The main point of that one is to address the harassment, not to make an agreement with them. Any wording that's not relevant should be edited or removed.

There was a storm on Friday night but it was quite distant, I could see the lightning but not hear the rumble of thunder and very little rain fell here at that point, however, there was a power cut. I must say I'm terrified of lightning. :behindsofa: eep:

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

Plan of action..

I ended up taking an aircraft part to Italy last week so two days were taken up doing that, plus other things that I'm working on in the background but I think I now need to sit down properly and take action as I've received two letters saying that these are going to be passed on to their legal department.. Life happens and I don't want to let this slip through like I did with MKDP by leaving things to the last minute..

There are two accounts that 1st credit are trying to claim. One is a loan that I had with HSBC (unsecured).

The other is a business overdraft that had a commercial card balance added to it after I fell into difficulty when the franchise company I had a franchise with went into liquidation.

I originally asked for a debit card for this business account so I could access my own money and not run up a debt which wouldn't be good for a new business. HSBC refused and gave me a Commercial Charge Card instead that had to be paid off each month! They told me that it would be better for my cash flow. After a couple of months struggling to pay it off each month, I asked them to change it to a credit card to give me more time to pay down the debt and reminded them that I asked for a debit card to avoid running up a debt in the first place. I think their general goal is to get people into debt easier.

I continued to use the business account when I went back to multidropping after I finished with the franchise as the van I had was on that account but I wasn't earning enough to cover everything and this all just went backwards very slowly. This account was overdrawn when HSBC changed their Ts & Cs so it could ultimately be subject to the UTTCR 1999. My personal account had already been closed down by HSBC. What a mess, when I think back on it. Thanks HSBC for making my life much more difficult than it needed to be at the time..

First the loan.

Going back through the paperwork, and they do send out a lot of letters, no wonder the rain forests of the world are getting smaller, they initiated contact on 17 Sept 2014 with their Account Assignment letter and fake letter from HSBC, followed by a letter a week as posted in the first post on this thread.

I then sent them a CCA request on 5th October 2014. On Oct 8th 14 they sent one of their County Court Proceedings Being Considered letter. According to the 18 Oct thread post, I received a letter from 1st credit stating that they had received my letter and were going to contact HSBC. I've put that somewhere, I need to find it..

That was the last correspondence I received from them until 14 April 2015 when they apologised for the delay in responding and stated that because I didn't sign the letter, they were unable to comply with my request. They asked if I could resend my request but sign it. To date, I haven't.

It took them over 6 months to send this reply to which they failed to provide the required documentation. I'm not going to give them a second chance..

On 1 June 15 - they started sending the County Court Proceedings Being Considered letter again stating that they have written to me on numerous occasions, debt remains unpaid (not endebted to them) and may consider CC proceedings etc..

8 June 15 - they sent another letter adding the potential court costs amounting to £510 in addition to the debt plus a financial statement to fill out, as if.

15 June 15 - they sent me a 30% discounted offer off the debt that they have yet to prove is theirs in the first place. They gave me 14 days to reply to this offer but then sent the next letter on 22 June, just a week later.

22 June 15 - I received a Review for County Court Proceedings stating that a review of my Credit Bureau data indicates that I have sufficient means to begin repayment of this debt. Threats to pass on to their legal depo etc..

29 June - letter stating that my account will shortly be passed to their legal department, also threatening Attachment of Earnings from my employer (I'm self employed), Warrant of Control to seize assets (on an unsecured loan? I didn't borrow anything from 1st Credit and have no account with them) or a Charging Order to secure the amount outstanding against a property owned by me (I rent, good luck with that lol). They have me 14 days to reply from the date of the letter to reply which would be by the 13th July.

6 July - letter stating Your account has been passed to 1st credit's legal department. This is well within the 14 days that the previous letter gave me. It states that the account will be held for 10 days (times up) before it will be passed to their solicitors with the intention of issuing me with a 'letter before claim' in accordance with the formal legal process.

That was the last letter I received from them in relation to this account so I guess they will be send this 'letter before claim this week. In the mean time, I thought I would to do a version of jon1965's letter stating that they are still obligated to provide me with the information I require, they have failed to provide that information in the required time and that this is still in dispute and cannot be subject to legal proceedings.

This is a long post, and what on earth does Notepad do to the formatting?! I'm wondering if I should open a new thread for the overdraft/commercial card.. It's got as far as 'Your account will shortly be passed on to our legal department' dated 10 July. It's a similar situation to my personal account..

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

I haven't heard anything from 1st credit until Friday, when I received this letter from their solicitor Walker Morris in Leeds..

This account consisted of a small business overdraft and a commercial credit card that used to be a charge card (something that I didn't ask for - they refused to give me a debit card saying that a charge card would be better - better at helping me run up a debt) that got lumped into one account. HSBC refused to be reasonable and see sense at the time so I gave up trying. I didn't fail to do anything except try and come to an agreement but when everything fell apart at the time plus trying to find money to pay vat and taxes, there wasn't much I could do.. I was also overdrawn when HSBC changed ts & cs.. These people do like to think that they have some kind of control over your life.

1st Credit's idea of an assignment was a letter made to look like an official document from HSBC but was printed on an ink jet printer and is not an official HSBC document. Same as my personal account.

I do not owe 1st credit anything and have never had any agreement with them. Like MKDP, they are holding me to ransom and trying to extort money out of me. I'm now thinking that I should send their solicitor a cca request but I thought I'd run it by here before I do so.. Unless there is something more powerful I can send them..

Hope everyone is well..

Dan

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

I guess I need to get serious with these people now, along with everything else I need to deal with..

I've received a letter from another solicitor today relating to the loan I had with HSBC that fell into default. I did CCA this one but 1st credit replied several months later saying they weren't obliged to reply as I hadn't signed it or something like that (details above).

The letter is pretty much the same word for word as the letter from the other solicitor I posted above. I'll send a version of Jon's letter to this solicitor and a CCA letter to the other solicitor, unless there is something more effective that I can send seeing that I'm not in contact with 1st Credit for the time being..

I know I did all this before with my personal accounts so I'm assuming I'm on the right track..

Cheers,
Dan

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

I wonder if someone with a legal mind would be able to quickly look over this reply I made that incorporates Jon's response above.. This is a reply to the loan that I sent a CCA request for and 1st credit wrote back saying they wouldn't comply because I didn't sign it..

I'm going to send a separate CCA request to the other solicitor for the other account..

I refer to your letter dated 27 August 2015.

On 5^th October 2014, I requested to see a true copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement as entitled under sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, to be provided within 12 days from the date of my letter.

The following week, I received a letter from your client stating that they were going to contact HSBC for the details. I didn't receive a further reply until 16^th April 2015, some 6 months after my original request for information, far exeeding the 12 day limit, stating that they were unable to comply with my request as my letter wasn't signed.

I'd like to draw your clients attention to the fact that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that I supply a copy of my signature. If it was for Data Protection purposes then I can supply documentation to substantiate my identity.

However, as your client continued to send statements and correspondence containing extensive sensitive private information to my address and so I wonder, if they were so concerned that they were corresponding with the correct person why did it take them so long to raise this?

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of Data Protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:

• Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.
  

I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if your client is unsure of my identity; which therefore means that this account looks likely to become unenforceable until such time your client actually respond to my lawful request for a copy of the agreement.

I am not going to sign anything as there is nothing that formally allows your client to demand such, any future failings will be swiftly reported to the regulatory bodies so I politely suggest you adhere to this refusal.

As you can see, I have been in contact with your client in the past and your client had both failed and refused to comply with their legal obligation within the statutory time.

Yours sincerely,

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

Just to highlight something in this letter,

'We are instructed by our client that you entered into a written agreement numbered 0 with HSBC Bank Plc ("the Creditor")"

Numbered 0?? Have they just proven to themselves that they don't have an agreement number for this account?

I haven't heard anything from 1st credit until Friday, when I received this letter from their solicitor Walker Morris in Leeds..

This account consisted of a small business overdraft and a commercial credit card that used to be a charge card (something that I didn't ask for - they refused to give me a debit card saying that a charge card would be better - better at helping me run up a debt) that got lumped into one account. HSBC refused to be reasonable and see sense at the time so I gave up trying. I didn't fail to do anything except try and come to an agreement but when everything fell apart at the time plus trying to find money to pay vat and taxes, there wasn't much I could do.. I was also overdrawn when HSBC changed ts & cs.. These people do like to think that they have some kind of control over your life.

1st Credit's idea of an assignment was a letter made to look like an official document from HSBC but was printed on an ink jet printer and is not an official HSBC document. Same as my personal account.

I do not owe 1st credit anything and have never had any agreement with them. Like MKDP, they are holding me to ransom and trying to extort money out of me. I'm now thinking that I should send their solicitor a cca request but I thought I'd run it by here before I do so.. Unless there is something more powerful I can send them..

Hope everyone is well..

Dan

[nemesis45]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

Hi that's certainly is an odd account number.
A couple of points:
1. Although the CCA 1974 states a signature is not required on A CCA request there is actually no harm in providing one often the recipient may if it is a 3rd party involved in the debt collection process need to be sure that data is supplied to the correct person, lifted signatures are really just an " urban myth.
You mention notices of assignment (NOA's) these can be sent by the creditor and/or the debt purchaser and often creditors authorise the debt purchaser to send an NOA on their behalf the ones you have received sound fine.

You can certainly contend that you have no knowledge of any agreement bearing that number.

The theory that you "do not owe 1st Credit anything" is I'm afraid flawed, your debt/account has been sold to 1st Credit under the provisions of the Law of Property Act 1925 and 1st Credit inherits the rights and obligations of the original agreement and owns the debt outright. 1st Credit can now pursue this including issuing a court claim.
The same applies to the matter in the hands of MKDP.

CCA request goes to 1st Credit the solicitors will not hold a copy. But if this is commercial loan/ account/card it may not be CCA1974 regulated.
nem

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

Thanks for your assessment Nem..

Perhaps I'll simplify my response. With regards to a loan I had with HSBC, 1st credit still haven't provided a copy of the agreement as requested, irrespective of a signature (the letter still had my name on it at the end). The time they had to do that expired a long time ago therefore still in dispute.

This situation was the same as my situation with MKDP, HSBC put me into a financial grave, possibly unlawfully given that my accounts were overdrawn when they changed ts & cs.

They lumped my commercial card onto my business account and then demanded the whole lot in one go which was the final nail in the coffin for my business banking with HSBC.. I didn't have enough to cover everything I needed to cover at the time. In fact, I'm worse off now as I can't borrow, my van has been in pieces for the past three months after being caught up in a police/trading standards investigation so my earnings have been down 70%.. I'm wondering why I try.. This year really hasn't worked out the way I'd planned..

I'll sleep on this and send something to them tomorrow.

[nemesis45]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

Thanks for your assessment Nem..

Perhaps I'll simplify my response. With regards to a loan I had with HSBC, 1st credit still haven't provided a copy of the agreement as requested, irrespective of a signature (the letter still had my name on it at the end). The time they had to do that expired a long time ago therefore still in dispute.

This situation was the same as my situation with MKDP, HSBC put me into a financial grave, possibly unlawfully given that my accounts were overdrawn when they changed ts & cs.

They lumped my commercial card onto my business account and then demanded the whole lot in one go which was the final nail in the coffin for my business banking with HSBC.. I didn't have enough to cover everything I needed to cover at the time. In fact, I'm worse off now as I can't borrow, my van has been in pieces for the past three months after being caught up in a police/trading standards investigation so my earnings have been down 70%.. I'm wondering why I try.. This year really hasn't worked out the way I'd planned..

I'll sleep on this and send something to them tomorrow.

OK let us know if you need any further help.

nem

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

Sooooo.... Much to my surprise, I received an apology from 1st Crudit in the post in one envelope today and an annual statement for the same 'account' in another envelope..

I'm not going to cash in the cheque they sent to me. Instead, I'm thinking about opening a complaint with the FOS to investigate them, just to cause them a headache and see what happens.. These people have held my credit rating to ransom and tried to extort money out of me for the past year without warrant, perhaps this is a chance to turn the tables..

What do you reckon?

Dan

[FredW]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

How did you get on with your FOS complaint?

Freddy

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

Hello everyone.. How are u all?

Been a while since I've been here, luckily I've remembered my password this time!

Apart from the odd 'statement of account' from 1st Credit, everything has been very quiet from these debt people. I get the occasional letter once a year but they seem to give up trying.. Life elsewhere has been stressful though but life goes on so to speak.. Still picking up various pieces which have become more difficult to pick up (not relating to HSBC)..

Out of nowhere, I received a letter from HSBC today stating that they had made a mistake on my loan statements and would refund £1044.18 interest charges (dated from the first incorrect loan statement) to be applied to my outstanding loan balance..

Now excuse me for trying to contain my anger but that amount of interest represents over 10% of the original debt so this mistake must have been very early on. When I fell into difficulty, HSBC crucified me with their charges, bouncing my loan and credit card payments then charged more, up to £200 a month for a period of about 6 months before I cut the cycle. Their debt advice line told me that refinancing would save around £250 a month at the time which would have made all the difference but then they refused to go ahead..

They shut my accounts down, passed everything onto their internal debt collection agencies who then passed everything onto the likes of MKDP and 1st Credit.. As my account was overdrawn while they changed their terms and conditions, we won the MKDP credit card court case thanks to the generous help here..

1st Credit haven't done anything about this debt since I last posted here apart from sending me yearly 'statements'. This is still affecting my credit rating, though I have since managed to get a couple of the 'repair your credit rating' credit cards which is working, to a certain degree..

However, now in 2017, HSBC admit that they made a mistake early on yet they expect me to accept their apology and solution to apply the refund to the outstanding balance..

Whilst I acknowledge that I fell into difficulty at the time, many risk takers do, but to be destroyed by the bank unlawfully (overdrawn when T&Cs changed) and then have the bank admit several years later that they made a mistake on their calculations, isn't the bank liable for something here?

I've attached the letter on this post, would welcome a legal mind to look over it and with the past history in mind ask whether the HSBC is legally liable for something here..

Thank you
Daniel

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

So out of nowhere, I today received a PPI refund form from HSBC for the £1,684.94 PPI on this loan they said they owed me some 5 years ago but refused to pay when I desperately needed it..

Kama for HSBC!

[MIKE770]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

pay up @ 8% interest only no doubt the HSBC way!

[wesd25]

Re: 1st Credit now claiming old HSBC loan

I'm still in a state of shock considering the fights I had with them all that time ago.. They've suddenly rolled over.. Just sent the form off so it should be in my account within 4 weeks, though quicker would be nice.. I've just started with a new company so it all helps..