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Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

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  • Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

    We lived in a property for 18 months which included only one winter. Flogas supplied the property. The landlord had a key to the meter and ordered all deliveries. We first received bills with the wrong meter reading on and it took them 6 months to apply the right reading, again supplied by the landlord. We only had 4 working radiators. All the bills contradicted each other and by the summer of 2011 the bills had jumped from £300 to £2500 which included a delivery of £1500 in the height of summer.During one phone call ,the representative from Flogas even admitted that the meter readings were different from their engineers visits.The harassment from Flogas was unbelievable which included ringing us, giggling and putting the phone down. During this time I spoke to a Mahesh Patel from Flogas who did not at any time decide to tell me that in fact he was a solicitor.I asked him to take us to court as it was going to be the only was forward. Our supply was turned off in September 2011 and a final bill was £4864.81.Because of a work opportunity my husband and I moved to Cornwall. The landlord knew where we had moved to.
    In early 2013 we received a CCJ from NCC regarding the debt.After phoning the Court I sent in a substantial Defence. A few weeks later my husband received a CCJ. I phoned the Court and they told me that they had not received my Defence and it may have gone missing. They knew that I had phoned previously.
    Then out of the blue a couple called to our property and handed me a document. It was a Statutory Demand from a solicitors called Stenfield and it was signed by Mahesh Patel. I honestly believed it wasn't real especially with my dealings of Flogas. So I ignored it. Stupid I know.
    We have been in the Bankruptcy Court four times now. Each Judge has seen the problems with Flogas and suggested to me ( I have dealt with everything, bills ,court etc all along but because of my husband's profile they are going after him) to try and have the CCJ set aside. I tried this but of course it is now out of time.Also Stenfield stated that the Bankruptcy Court is not considered the proper forum for the discrepancies of the bills to be tried.
    On appealing to have the Judgement in Default set aside, they have used the ruling 13.3(2) as the overriding objective that the application had not been made promptly. The Judgement was dated 18th April 2013(LOST by the Court) and the application to set aside was not made until January 2014.
    I have appealed against this decision using Article 19(4) of the Service Regulation and also applying 13.3(1) to set aside as I have a genuine reason to dispute it and believe I have a real prospect of defending the claim.
    The hearing is on Thursday.Is there anything I can apply? We do not owe this debt and my husband is being made bankrupt at the age of 68 after working all his life. Even the Judges are surprised why Flogas are going for Bankruptcy. Our last Judge asked what the point was and that he never heard anything like it before. Of course Stenfield's have never attended, just the duty solicitors. I have even written to the Chairman of Flogas who couldn't be bothered to reply even after telling him that my husband was in the critical unit at Treliske. The secretary said that it was in the hands of their solicitors so they couldn't comment.
    Any help would be most appreciated.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

    :bump2: :bump2:

    Hi [MENTION=47461]Dollydaydream[/MENTION] ... I'm just bumping up your post for you so the other Beagles won't miss it

    K x
    Debt is like any other trap, easy enough to get into, but hard enough to get out of.

    It doesn't matter where your journey begins, so long as you begin it...

    recte agens confido

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    • #3
      Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

      Hi

      It does sound as though you have done well so far in an extremely stressful and difficult situation. It is a shame that you didn't know to apply to set aside the judgment back in April 2013 but you do have your opportunity now - with your set aside application you included all your defence as well I assume. Tell the Judge just how stressful it has been and how you are litigants in person. Without seeing the paperwork its difficult to help - can you do a time line of the hearings and orders you have had since receiving the first claim, and what the status of their bankruptcy petition is at the moment. Also have you sought any advice to date or have you been trying to deal with this on your own?

      Sharon xx
      #staysafestayhome

      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

      Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

        Hi Sharon,

        Thank you for your help. I'm glad you thought of the timeline as I hadn't. Here goes!

        Lived in the property from 29th April 2010 until October 31st 2011.Moved to Cornwall November 2nd 2011.
        CCJ received 26th March 2013 for £5,964.21.
        I phoned the court (on system) and sent Defence. Heard nothing back. On 18/04/2013 received Judgement as I 'had not replied to the claim form'. Phoned the court and they told me that they had not received it and there was nothing I could do (bad advice!).

        02/05/2013 Received Statutory Demand signed Mahesh Patel (who I thought worked for Flogas as I had spoken to him in July 2011). I didn't believe that it was real (STUPID!) and also because it seemed to just demand the debt to be paid to the creditor's satisfaction and for the fact 'and it is intended to present a bankruptcy petition in the High court in London' was crossed out.

        02/08/2013 Failure to comply with the Statutory Demand. Court date set for 04/10/2013 in Truro.

        04/10/2013 Hearing in front of District Judge Middleton. He suggested to the duty solicitor that there were clear issues with the bills and triable issues and that it would serve the creditors to readdress them and maybe sort it out amicably, preferably out of court. Adjourned to 20/11/2013. Also asked to serve notice of objection and copy documents to the Petitioning Creditors by 4pm 11/10 2013. I replied on 29/09/2013.
        Court date moved to 27/11/2013.

        14/11/2013 Mahesh Patel wrote in his Witness Statement that it was not open to the court to go behind the Statutory Demand and review the correctness or otherwise of a Judgement debt on which the demand was based (Chauhan v Inland Revenue Commissioners 2004 BPIR862 )
        He also said that the Petitioning Creditor denies the matters set out in the Debtor's evidence however the Bankruptcy Court is not considered to be the proper forum for the issues to be tried. That having been said the court is unable to go behind the Judgement.

        27/11/2013 Before District Judge Mitchell. He suggested that I try to have the Judgement set aside even though the time lmit had expired. He said that he had no reason to doubt that I had originally sent in a Defence to the Judgement. Adjourned until 03/02/2014.

        28/01/2014 Transferred from Truro to Bodmin for hearing.

        03/02/2014 Before District Judge Mitchell who could not attend so before District Judge Thomas.He wanted to be consistent with the earlier orders. He questioned the duty solicitor as he was surprised that a utility debt was seeking bankruptcy. He asked 'what the point was?'. Adjourned for 6 weeks.

        10/02/2014 at Bodmin .D Judge Middleton dealing with written representations served by 11/03/2014.I thought not attending court at a hearing would save the court time and it was the same Judge who suggested trying to get the court to set aside out of time so it would be straight forward.

        14/03/2014 D Judge Middleton dismissed the application. Reason 'The application to set aside the Judgement was not made until January 2014. Applying 13.3(2) and the overidding objection has not been made promptly and in the context of this claim that factor is determinative.' Mahesh Patel put in a substantial defence, strangly stating that the Claimant accepts that administration of the Defendant's account had been less than desirable.

        Bankruptcy Petition letter..... adjourned to 08/05/2014

        28/03/2014 Letter from Mahesh Patel demands for payment of debt as application dismissed. I spoke to him on the phone, told him our circumstances and that I was going to appeal.

        11/04/2014 I filed an Appellant's Notice appealing Judge Middleton's decision.

        08/05/2014 Because of this BP was adjourned until 01/07/2014

        13/06/2014. HH Judge Salomonsen at Exeter Refused Permission to appeal. Reasons. The appellant representations had been considered previously by D Judge Mitchel and D Judge Middleton. D Judge Middleton was able to consider the parties' written representations before he reached his decision and in accordance with CPR 13.3(2) had regarded the Appellant's failure to make an application to set aside the Judgement promptly and the overiding objective in the context of the facts of the claim.

        17/06/2014 Mahesh Patel letter informing us that their client is prepared to accept a contribution of £2000 towards the costs incurred to date as long as it is paid by the 27/06/2014. This is after informing Patel of my husband's Pension Credits, no savings, renting a house etc.

        26/06/2014 I appealed against HH Judge Salomonsen permission to appeal and an Oral rehearing of Permission to Appeal set for 12/08/2014

        Unfortunately at this time my husband was in the Critical Unit of Treliske with pneumonia and other conditions so it was adjourned until 02/10/2014

        01/07 We were before D Judge Thomas and informed him of the appeal so BP was adjourned to 23/09/2014 but because of the date being changed it has now been moved to 08/10/2014 for the Bankruptcy Petition to be heard.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

          Thank you for doing that. I have asked someone to take a look but am just having a read through myself too.
          #staysafestayhome

          Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

          Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

            final bill was £4864.81.

            Is that the amount the bankruptcy petition is for?
            #staysafestayhome

            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

            Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

              Have you got a copy of your defence and the flogas statements? Did you make a formal written complaint to the CEO? Do you have a copy of that too?
              #staysafestayhome

              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

              Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

                Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                Is that the amount the bankruptcy petition is for?

                The bankruptcy petition is for £6,038.20.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

                  Yes, thankfully kept all statements, letters and even phone records of the calls I made. I did not have a copy of my full defence submitted in March 2013 as our printer was broken.I have made a formal complaint to the CEO Lee Gannon including copies of my defence and problem statements back in May ( have a copy) and he replied that he would look into it and get back to me. He didn't. When I emailed him his secretary answered saying that he had sent another letter, which I never received. Since then i have badgered her for a copy to no avail. Now she says I have to go through Mahesh Patel at all times.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

                    Just to let you know that I had a call at 5.30pm today and an email from Exeter to say that the Judge tomorrow had looked at the case and thought it would be more appropriate for him to see us at Truro CC next week so that we didn't have to travel so far. So relieved as it would have been quite difficult for us.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

                      That's good news, and sounds like the Judge is being rather more considerate than Flogas.
                      #staysafestayhome

                      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                      Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

                        Has anybody got any suggestions for our court hearing tomorrow?

                        I have used 13.3 (1) asking the court to set aside the judgement as I have a genuine reason to dispute it and I believe that I have a real prospect of successfully defending the claim.
                        I have also applied Article 19 (4) of the Service Regulation I believe that my application to appeal against the judgement in Default when the time limit has expired should be allowed.

                        Am I missing something? Should i be looking in a particular area?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

                          Hiya

                          The Judge may find that due to the CPR's his hands are tied and will have no choice but to order the bankruptcy. It is unfair and it is because you are litigants in person that you haven't had the right advice from the beginning in handling this claim and stat demand. You have done bloody well fighting them this far, and I really hope the Judge can get through the CPR issues.

                          However IF they make your husband bankrupt, and you rent your house at the moment, then it seems there is little they can do. His account may be frozen and you will have to share your bank account, but if you have no assets and your husbands income is only his pension then I don't think you have too much to fear from the bankruptcy.

                          I am sorry we haven't been able to help very much - this has gone so far down the line that pulling it back without engaging a solicitor is going to be extremely difficult. All I can suggest is to push that you are litigants in person and have no funds to engage legal assistance, and the effect bankruptcy would have on you both.

                          Sharon
                          #staysafestayhome

                          Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                          Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

                            One thing of note I would add is that throughout all this I see nothing to suggest what you do owe or any "voluntary" payments being made towards it.

                            I would agree with Amethyst about if BR is approved they have rather shot themselves in the foot and are probably doing it out of spite rather than trying to recoup their losses. makes me wonder what Flogas themselves have been told by their legal advisers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Flogas fighting for Bankruptcy PLEASE HELP. In Court on Thursday.

                              Just to let you know that we appeared in front of very considerate Judge yesterday and he overturned the previous decision. So my appeal has been allowed and I am just preparing the case. His Honour brought up several issues which has given me food for thought. Funny enough, ploddertom, my husband and I have always thought that this has been about spite and we have also thought it was to do with the Landlord. The man was dodgy and had great difficulty telling the truth, even about the most trivial of matters.If we did owe anything it would £200-300 as we made monthly payments before Flogas stopped our DD? The Judge suggested suing Flogas.

                              Comment

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