Bailiffs...Bristow and Sutor..HELP!!!!!

[alocin]

Hi...I really hope someone can advise!!

Last year, I got into arrears with my council tax. I am a single mother, work part time (16hrs) so receive Working TC and Child TC., also Housing Benefit....and until last year, I also received Council Tax Benefit.,,then of course, the council tax benefit rule changed, and I was eligible to have to pay the total amount (minus the 25% single person deduction). I really really struggled. My wage hadn't increased to counteract the increase in CT...so I just couldn't pay. The debt was sent onto Bristow and Sutor, I made an arrangement to pay at the beginning of this year...and for one reason and another...ie, childs illness...lack of work etc...i still was unable to pay. The Bailiffs arrived at the house in May of this year...I did NOT let them in the house, there is no levy on anything in my house, but they entered my shed and listed Lawn Mower and strimmer, and a couple of smaller things. I tried talking to them at my door....told them they weren't coming in...listed my finaces in regards to income...told them i was a single Mum..etc. They then said they would and could take my car. I do not know if they levied it...have not got paperwork to say that they have. I clearly explained that the car could not be taken. I leave in a rural area. 5 miles from school, work, and shops....there is also no public transport to use...and finally, that due to my work, my car was essential (I'm a cleaner...and I need my car to get to clients houses). Trying to talk to the Bailiff i question was impossible...he could tell I was VERY distressed...did not take into consideration my circumstances, even told me I was probably lying about the fact that there is no public transport!! The whole time he was looking at his reflection in the window fiddling with his hair!!! GGrrr!!!
Whilst the Bailiff was here, I rang the council....I was upset, and said that I needed some help and advice. The council and myself agreed to pay 150.00 per month (this was very high..but I can just about do it) the council spoke to the bailiff and the bailiff agreed to leave with this amount agreed, It was due to be paid on the 12th of each month, starting in June.
I paid the first amount of 150.00 a week before it was due just to get it started....and also had the money at that moment to do so...a week after payment, I received the schedule of payment from B&S...and first payment was 186.00, then payments of 150.00, the final payment being in November. I completely forgot about the 36.00 extra that I had to additionally pay in the second installment that I paid in July...I therefore paid another 150.00 for Julys installment...it was 4 days late but at least paid. The last payment, for the august installment has been paid, 150.00 once again....again had completely overlooked the 36.00 extra that I owed....I think I had in my mind it was 150...and that had to be paid each month...a GENUINE error on my part.The august payment was 2 weeks late...but to be honest...I was just relieved that I had paid...hadn't missed a month and had got halfway through paying off my debt. Yesterday...Sat 30th august, whilst I was out at work, and my 14yr old daughter was in bed...the Bailiffs arrived...they left a letter that said they'd arrived to take items for auction to pay off debt, and that I was to ring them immediatly. I rang the bailiff and asked why they had been here...I was told I had broken the agreement....I asked why...as I had paid 450.00 over the three months as agreed. I was told, i had broken the agreement, and that the agreement in may was now cancelled...as I had paid on the wrong day...and that the first payment was meant to be 186,00. I told them I would pay the 36.00 this coming week...and the 150.00 installment for september on the 12th. He said he would not and didn't have to accept that as I had broken the agreement terms...and that he would be back in half an hour to collect the money..including 235.00 for their efforts!! So my debt is now over 700.00 instead of 436.00....even though I have paid three payments...and haven't missed a month. I have incurred a charge for paying 450.00.....but on the wrong days!!!! Needless to say....they didn't come back yesterday, even when i was told they would. I rang Step Change and they advised me to park my car away from my home...and to ring them Monday to talk to a Debt advisor. I have also contacted my local MP to ask if he can intervene with the council to take my debt back on...as if B&S continued to deal with it...and continued to add on charges..how was I ever going to get out of this debt. By the skin of my teeth I've manged to pay this years council tax..but if this continues with last years debt, it will affect this years payments...and the spiral continues for another year!
I'm so sorry this is a long post...but I am at my wits end...is there anything more I can do...I will be contacting Step Change at 8am tomorrow...with the hope they can help. I feel frustrated....I've shown commitment to pay...haven't missed a month...overlooked 36.00....and seem to be getting nowhere fast!!!

[Kati]

Re: Bailiffs...Bristow and Sutor..HELP!!!!!

First things first - stop worrying!! This is all sortable

With CT debt, the council, according to the regulations, should be always willing to deal directly with the debtor! They have the discretion to recall the debt from their contracted bailiffs AT ANY TIME.

You arranged with the council a payment schedule of £150 a month, then when you got the paperwork from B&S, the payments did not reflect this (£36 extra on on month) - this is not what you agreed,, they have altered it to suit their-selves.

When you get a meeting with Step Change, get an Income/Expenditure worked out which you can take to the council, and send a copy to B&S showing how much you can realistically afford - let them know that you are willing to pay, just need to ensure you can survive while doing so!

Contact both the council and B&S informing them that you are taking advice from Step Change, and ask your council to put your account on hold while you do this (they'll probably tell you they can't/wont, but it's in their regulations)

The bottom line is the income left after rent and current council tax needed for food, fuel, clothes, transport and other necessities; has to be a reasonable amount if councils (and jobcentres) abide by the Wednesbury Principles as required by law and endorsed by coalition ministers.

Get a breakdown of the charges which the bailiff has already added to your account, this might work in your favour if you have to complain later :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[alocin]

Re: Bailiffs...Bristow and Sutor..HELP!!!!!

Thank you so much. I think I'm more angry now than worried...or probably both in equal measures!!!!

Would I be able to quote the regulation to the council? If I spoke to them? Or would Step Change do that on my behalf? What is the actual regulation and where do i find it? As for the regulations that the council should adhere to....why do they say they can't do anything?? Aren't they duty bound to follow the rules and regs that are set down?? In trying to pay....I'm still incurring charges!!! Its an impossible never ending nightmare!! Who can I contact at the council to actually not keep being told NO..they won't deal with it!!??

Also am duty bound to pay this charge of 235.00?? Because thats going to cause me a huge financial problem...as really was on target to complete paying this by November! I cannot live like this for another year!! And to have to discuss with my daughter the issue of not discussing anything with anyone who will turn up at the front door makes me feel like a total bloody failure!!

[Guest]

Re: Bailiffs...Bristow and Sutor..HELP!!!!!

Since April of this year, they may no longer simply list goods. The debtor must enter into a controlled goods agreement. Provided that you haven't done that, (you will have had to sign it), then the bailiffs do not have control of any goods. As Step Change have rightly told you, your car must be hidden well. Alternatively, you may park it on a friend or neighbours drive and the car will be safe from removal. This may not stop B&S trying though so hiding it would be the best bet. Hiding it on a friends drive would be even better.

As the bailiffs actually visited you in May, they were entitled to charge the £235 at that point.

You should wrote to the council, copying B&S in. As technically B&S have not done anything wrong, this letter should not be a formal complaint.

You should outline your situation, emphasising that you are a single mum, working 16 hours a week as a cleaner, in receipt of benefits and at present, you are suffering financial hardship. Your situation has been worsened by the loss of Council Tax Benefit since last year.

You have fallen into arrears and last years account was passed to B&S. During a bailiff visit in May of this year, you agreed with the council to pay £150 per month towards your arrears. This was on the councils suggestion. You agreed to this, partly because a bailiff was physically on your doorstep at the time, threatening to remove goods. In hindsight, the figure agreed was way too much and certainly works out to more than what you would have to pay should the council obtain payments via an Attachment of Earnings Order (AOE). You would also suggest that the payment plan is at loggerheads with the National Standards which state (at 24)

"Debtors should not be pressed into making unrealistic offers and should be asked to consider carefully any offer they voluntary make and where possible refer to free debt advice"

With the high pressure situation that you found yourself in, you feel that you were pressed into making an unrealistic offer. Furthermore, you were not asked to consider the offer and you certainly were not referred to free debt advice.

You should also refer to 4.4 of the "Guidance to local councils on good practice in the collection of council tax arrears" published by the DCLG which states that:

"Debtors should not be forced into punitive repayment plans"

Despite all of this, you have tried your level best to maintain these high repayments, keeping up each month, albeit slightly late at times but still managing to pay within days of the agreed date. The council would, you hope, appreciate that when operating on such a tight budget, sometimes it is difficult to commit to a certain day of a certain month. You are also aware that a further £36 is outstanding due to the first payment required being even higher at £186.

You have now received a visit, incurring further charges of £235 because you have made payments a few days late (but still before the months end) and because £36 has been missed off the first payment. Bearing in mind that you have been forced to pay more than you would if an AOE had been in place, you ask the council to remove the £235 fee from your account. It is also your understanding that B&S aim to collect fees at the compliance stage, saving debtors the added expense of additional fees. You have not tried to avoid this debt, you have tried to address it, despite the repayment plan being too high (in hindsight). You also ask the council if they would consider accepting a lower repayment plan of the balance at a more affordable rate of £80 per month, given the relatively small amount that is now outstanding.

Finally, you ask that the council place all recovery action on hold whilst this situation is being resolved.

[Kati]

Re: Bailiffs...Bristow and Sutor..HELP!!!!!

Thank you so much. I think I'm more angry now than worried...or probably both in equal measures!!!!

Would I be able to quote the regulation to the council? If I spoke to them? Or would Step Change do that on my behalf? What is the actual regulation and where do i find it? As for the regulations that the council should adhere to....why do they say they can't do anything?? Aren't they duty bound to follow the rules and regs that are set down?? In trying to pay....I'm still incurring charges!!! Its an impossible never ending nightmare!! Who can I contact at the council to actually not keep being told NO..they won't deal with it!!??

Also am duty bound to pay this charge of 235.00?? Because thats going to cause me a huge financial problem...as really was on target to complete paying this by November! I cannot live like this for another year!! And to have to discuss with my daughter the issue of not discussing anything with anyone who will turn up at the front door makes me feel like a total bloody failure!!

If he council recall the debt from the bailiffs, the bailiff fees should be 'rolled back' (so you only owe the bailiffs the compliance fee of £75) - in some circumstances this can also be done without the council recalling the debt too :tinysmile_grin_t:

Have a read of these attachment,s and see what you can use!!

also .... Which council are you with?? I might be able to dig up a copy of their Debt Recovery Policy for you too

[alocin]

Re: Bailiffs...Bristow and Sutor..HELP!!!!!

Thank you SO MUCH for the replies! I really appreciate it! The council Is Shropshire County Council.
As I explained....my car is essential. I need it to work..to get my daughter to school...and to get to the local town which is 5 miles away. There also is no public transport...AT ALL!! On the CAB site it explains the conditions when a car CANNOT be removed and I am covered by nearly all the reasons they state. Can you clarify how I deal with this....my nearest neighbour is about a quarter of a mile away!!!!!

[Guest]

Re: Bailiffs...Bristow and Sutor..HELP!!!!!

Technically, your car can be removed. Given your circumstances, rural location and dependency on your car, it would be pretty harsh to remove your car. You need to get the letter I posted above into the council asap.

You can of course enter into a controlled goods agreement with B&S which means that they have custody of your car but you get to keep it. The drawback with this is that should you fail to maintain payments, your car can be removed which will lead to more charges.

You could perhaps write a second letter, copying B&S in, so both parties have copies of each others letter (of course emailing would be a quicker option. Try to get the Recovery manager or Head of revenues email address at the council B&S email is enquiries@bristowsutor.co.uk

Advise B&S that you have written to the council regarding this matter (copy enclosed). You ask that B&S await the outcome of this request before continuing with enforcement. You would like to take this opportunity to advise of your situation regarding the location of your house. (then go on to explain how vital your car is for work, food, school etc, etc) You are aware that the EA has indicated that your car may be removed, however given your rural location and total dependency on it, you would consider the vehicle to be exempt. To remove or immobilise the vehicle would eradicate any ability you had of carrying out your work, which in turn would place you in a position whereby not only would you be unable to address this debt but you would spiral into further debt as well.

Hopefully, this will bide you time until we can get it resolved.

[Kati]

Re: Bailiffs...Bristow and Sutor..HELP!!!!!

Thank you SO MUCH for the replies! I really appreciate it! The council Is Shropshire County Council.
As I explained....my car is essential. I need it to work..to get my daughter to school...and to get to the local town which is 5 miles away. There also is no public transport...AT ALL!! On the CAB site it explains the conditions when a car CANNOT be removed and I am covered by nearly all the reasons they state. Can you clarify how I deal with this....my nearest neighbour is about a quarter of a mile away!!!!!

Items that are ‘exempt’ by law from being taken by a bailiff:

• Items or equipment (for example, tools, books, telephones, computer equipment and vehicles) which are necessary for use personally by the debtor in the debtor’s employment, business, trade, profession, study or education, except that in any case the aggregate value of the items or equipment to which this exemption is applied shall not exceed £1,350;
• Clothes, beds, bedding, furniture, household equipment, items and provisions as are reasonably required to satisfy the basic domestic needs of the debtor and every member of the debtor’s household
• Cooker or microwave, fridge, washing machine, dining table and dining chairs to seat the debtor and every member of the debtor’s household.
• Land line telephone, or a mobile phone
• Sufficient lighting and heating facilities
• Medical equipment and items needed for the care of a child or elderly person.
• Safety and security equipment, eg. burglar alarms, locks and CCTV system
• Domestic pets and guide dogs
• Any vehicle displaying a valid disabled person’s badge, British Medical Association badge or other health emergency badge

If they took your car, you could not work (meaning you would be unable to pay the debt off anyway) :tinysmile_twink_t2:

I haven't managed to find anything on the council's website about their Debt Recovery Policy, but the bailiffs will have to adhere to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents!

Kati