ET is it worth it?

[cupidstunt]

Just been dismissed for gross misconduct in my absence.

I went to the hearing and started to represent myself was too ill and left the meeting after an hour.
Hearing was continued without me..

They have said I can resign so I can claim my pension now instead of waiting 5 yes if sacked.
I'm thinking that would be constructive dismissal right there.

Is it really worth going to an employment tribunal what with the fees and lawyer costs.

Would be failure to make reasonable adjustments, discrimination due to disability and unfair/constructive dismissal.

If I was still employed, I would have done another three years and my pension increased by 3yrs plus possible promotion, wage increases and overtime.

Is it worth it, ET doesn't seem to pay out much, no point in proceeding if only break even.

[enquirer]

Re: ET is it worth it?

What was the alleged Gross Misconduct? Was it genuine case? The answer to this may dictate your future course of action.

[cupidstunt]

Re: ET is it worth it?

Yes genuine gross misconduct due to illness that is covered under eq act and unauthorised absence due to failure to make reasonable adjustment.

The fact that I told them at the hrearing i was ill and had to leave and they carried on in my absence instead of postponing must be against procedure.

anyway despite this I can't see the results in an ET cover the outgoings. Could do the figures and go county court route.

[Harmonica]

Re: ET is it worth it?

If you intend to use lawyers then it will almost certainly not be worth it. However, if you have the stomach for it you could pay the fees and represent yourself.

[cupidstunt]

Re: ET is it worth it?

It annoying that the employers know this, so the law is a waste of time, just a pretence.

[Harmonica]

Re: ET is it worth it?

Yes, it can be very brutal. The sad fact is, the deeper your pockets, the more justice you can access. Unless you can get a solicitor to take your case on a no win no fee basis, which is very rare, you'll probably need to represent yourself. If you're so ill that you had to leave the hearing then you shouldn't go near an ET. Making an ET claim can get extremely ugly. Most employees lose and more often than not the ones who win usually look back and wish they never bothered. I hope you are ok and can get past this awful experience.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ET is it worth it?

Yes, it can be very brutal. The sad fact is, the deeper your pockets, the more justice you can access. Unless you can get a solicitor to take your case on a no win no fee basis, which is very rare, you'll probably need to represent yourself. If you're so ill that you had to leave the hearing then you shouldn't go near an ET. Making an ET claim can get extremely ugly. Most employees lose and more often than not the ones who win usually look back and wish they never bothered. I hope you are ok and can get past this awful experience.

On the other hand, making an ET claim often leads to an offer of settlement which includes a certain amount of money as well as an agreed reference. Much better than a poke in the eye and the ability to say you got sacked for gross misconduct.

I got one such settlement many years ago, long before you had to pay for ET claims, and I also got pro-bono representation from a law centre in London. I know quite a few examples of people who have taken matters to the ET and have been offered a settlement, including some who submitted claims of constructive dismissal, despite those claims having just a 3% success rate at the ET, a settlement was offered as it was cheaper for the company than paying for their own highly priced lawyers. This was the same company who offered me a settlement 5 years earlier, a friend of mine being the second claimant, but there are quite a few cases around. It's a gamble now you have to pay a fee but it could well be worth it.

[steampowered]

Re: ET is it worth it?

If you go on some of the business forums, employers complain about the ET system as well. They will have to pay lawyers' fees to which they are very unlikely to recover from you. A very large number of ET cases settle. I've seen plenty of fairly weak cases settle for decent amounts. Generally I find that the side who 'wins' think the Tribunal system is fair and the side who 'loses' thinks it is unfair.

Whether you should proceed depends on how strong your case is and whether you are prepared to go through the stress of dealing with tribunal proceedings.

Your disability would need to be taken into account, but just because you are disabled does not mean you can't be guilty of gross misconduct. If they are telling you to resign or be sacked I'd think that would be constructive dismissal (but would only be unfair dismissal if you weren't guilty of misconduct).

[FlamingParrot]

Re: ET is it worth it?

If you go on some of the business forums, employers complain about the ET system as well. They will have to pay lawyers' fees to which they are very unlikely to recover from you.

Corporate lawyers do charge an awful lot, the guys I took to the ET hired a magic circle firm who charged upwards of £500/hr, in 2004! That's one reason to offer settlements, mine was clearly worded a commercial settlement, i.e. no admission of liability on their part, just cheaper than paying those lawyers. :wof:

Having said that, I WAS warned about the possibility of costs awarded against me, should the tribunal decide my case had 'no merit'. Although rare, costs are sometimes awarded against ET claimants, there was a poster on here a few months ago who was being chased for such costs.

A very large number of ET cases settle. I've seen plenty of fairly weak cases settle for decent amounts. Generally I find that the side who 'wins' think the Tribunal system is fair and the side who 'loses' thinks it is unfair.

That happens for the rea$on$ noted above. :wof:

Whether you should proceed depends on how strong your case is and whether you are prepared to go through the stress of dealing with tribunal proceedings.

Your disability would need to be taken into account, but just because you are disabled does not mean you can't be guilty of gross misconduct. If they are telling you to resign or be sacked I'd think that would be constructive dismissal (but would only be unfair dismissal if you weren't guilty of misconduct).

Constructive dismissal is very difficult to win at the ET, yet I know a couple of cases where employers were willing to settle, very likely for the commercial rea$on$ already discussed. If you do resign, you can only claim constructive dismissal, you can't claim unfair dismissal unless you were sacked. What constitutes gross misconduct is also wide open to interpretation, and depends on your line of work and what sort of industry you work in.

[cupidstunt]

Re: ET is it worth it?

I have now been sacked.

At the hearing they had no idea of the equality act.

I had turned up for this hearing after they have postponed one three weeks previously as I was to ill to represent myself.

Still not well I attended as they said it would be held in my absence.

I attempted to represent myself but could not cope, I asked for an hour break, they refused, so I left and went home, it turns out they continued in my absence and had a great time putting the case without any defence.

a couple of the allegations were definitely due to disability, which I pointed out, they couldn't care less.

If I took them to an ET the pay out is not worth the effort and certainly wouldn't cover my legal costs.

Even if you win it's a cheap way to get rid of someone.

Seems like it's a waste of time.

[Harmonica]

Re: ET is it worth it?

https://ec.acas.org.uk/en

Hope you're ok and not feeling too depressed. They'll probably reject it but you have nothing to lose by submitting an application for early conciliation. You never know, they might think you intend to go to an ET and settle.

[cupidstunt]

Re: ET is it worth it?

I requested an appeal yesterday by post, as you know it is a requirement for the ET claim.

I probably will make a claim and I have my pension now, so can afford representation.

However its a big government employer and they don't care.