Bryan carter claim – defence help required

[sparks]

Good morning all, I am new to posting on the forum but have read many of the posts and excellent advice regarding Bryan Carter Claims. I would now be very grateful if someone could advise me please.
I am the lucky recipient of one of these claims and following advice given to others on here have got to the stage where I have filed an acknowledgement of the claim and in the meantime sent the CPR 31 letter off to BC. As expected, and in line with the response that most other people on here have reported, I received the standard response from BC that the claim will be allocated to the small claims track etc etc.
I am now in a position where I need to submit a defence and this is where I need some help.
Firstly I would just like reassurance that I have understood the timescales properly – the issue date of the claim was 7^th March so as I understand it the date of service would be 12^th March giving 14 days to acknowledge (26^th March) and 28 days to file a defence (9^th April) – is this correct?
Secondly I am at a loss to know what to put as a defence – I have seen many examples on here but the legal wording has confused me and I have not been able to make head nor tail out of what is being said. Obviously I want to defend my claim properly but I don’t want to just copy something down if I don’t understand it as when I get to court I will be onto a loser if I don’t even know what my own defence actually means!
I am also not sure what way to go with my defence – as BC have not provided me with much detail I only have a possible idea of what the account might be. I don’t recognise the company name but from reading other stuff on here it might be an umbrella company for something else. If it is the account I am thinking of then to my knowledge there should be no debt. I am not sure whether to defend as if I have no knowledge of the account or whether to say I might know of the account but certainly not the debt. I am concerned that if I even say I have an inkling of the account then they will assume me guilty and find in BC’s favour and then he will get money of mine that he is not entitled to.
So question 1 is what advice would you give me as to what way to go with the defence and question 2 does anyone have an example of a straightforward and understandable defence which is still sufficient and legally worded enough to be put to the court?
These are the particulars of claim in case this has any bearing on any advice given.
This claim is for ***.** the amount due under an agreement between the original creditor and the defendant to provide finance and / or services and / or goods.
This debt was assigned to / purchased by Lowell Portfolio I Ltd on 20/12/2012 and notice served pursuant to the law of property act 1925.
Particulars – Re: JD Williams, A/C No: ********
And the claimant claims ***.**
The claimant also claims interest pursuant to S69 county court act 1984 from 20/12/2012 to date at 8% per annum amounting to **.**

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Hi and welcome

I am the lucky recipient of one of these claims and following advice given to others on here have got to the stage where I have filed an acknowledgement of the claim and in the meantime sent the CPR 31 letter off to BC. As expected, and in line with the response that most other people on here have reported, I received the standard response from BC that the claim will be allocated to the small claims track etc etc.
I am now in a position where I need to submit a defence and this is where I need some help.
Firstly I would just like reassurance that I have understood the timescales properly – the issue date of the claim was 7^th March so as I understand it the date of service would be 12^th March giving 14 days to acknowledge (26^th March) and 28 days to file a defence (9^th April) – is this correct?

Below are the timescales as per the Bulk Centre FAQs:https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/northampton-bulk-centre/ccbc/frequently-asked-questions

How long do I have to file a response to my claim?

Counting from the date of issue -

• Acknowledgement of Service:
• 14 Days + 5 Days (service) = 19 Days. (An Acknowledgement of Service gives 14 days extra from the date of service to file a defence).
• Defence, without filing an Acknowledgement of Service:
• 14 days + 5 Days (service) = 19 Days.
• Defence, after filing Acknowledgement of Service:
• 14 + 14 + 5 = 33 Days in total.
• Full/Part Admission, without filing an Acknowledgement of Service: 14 + 5 Days = 19 Days.
• Full/Part Admission, after filing an Acknowledgement of Service:
• 14 + 14 + 5 = 33 Days in total.

In view of the above, looks like your calculations are spot on. :thumb:

Secondly I am at a loss to know what to put as a defence – I have seen many examples on here but the legal wording has confused me and I have not been able to make head nor tail out of what is being said. Obviously I want to defend my claim properly but I don’t want to just copy something down if I don’t understand it as when I get to court I will be onto a loser if I don’t even know what my own defence actually means!
I am also not sure what way to go with my defence – as BC have not provided me with much detail I only have a possible idea of what the account might be. I don’t recognise the company name but from reading other stuff on here it might be an umbrella company for something else. If it is the account I am thinking of then to my knowledge there should be no debt.

If you've read other BC threads, you will have noticed a lot of people with BC claims have resorted to an application to the court as opposed to submitting a defence blindly for a debt you're not even sure about.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

I am not sure whether to defend as if I have no knowledge of the account or whether to say I might know of the account but certainly not the debt. I am concerned that if I even say I have an inkling of the account then they will assume me guilty and find in BC’s favour and then he will get money of mine that he is not entitled to.

This is a little complicated, did you or did you not have the account? If you did, the only way you may not have the debt is if you'd paid it off. Did you? You may have had a catalogue account with another company in the same group, see below.

If you had the account and didn't pay it off, there are other things you may argue such as:

• non-compliance with a CCA request if you sent one - did you?
• lack of agreement and/or prescribed terms on it if applicable - most of those catalogue account companies didn't actually ask customers to sign a credit agreement so there may not be one
• not having proof that the debt has been assigned to Lowell, did you ever get a notice of assignment?
• did you get a default notice?

This is a civil matter, not a criminal one, so you will not be found 'guilty' of anything.

So question 1 is what advice would you give me as to what way to go with the defence and question 2 does anyone have an example of a straightforward and understandable defence which is still sufficient and legally worded enough to be put to the court?

Without knowing the details mentioned above, it wouldn't possible to tell you what to write as your defence. We'd need to know what grounds you have to dispute this account as above. :noidea:

These are the particulars of claim in case this has any bearing on any advice given.
This claim is for ***.** the amount due under an agreement between the original creditor and the defendant to provide finance and / or services and / or goods.
This debt was assigned to / purchased by Lowell Portfolio I Ltd on 20/12/2012 and notice served pursuant to the law of property act 1925.
Particulars – Re: JD Williams, A/C No: ********
And the claimant claims ***.**
The claimant also claims interest pursuant to S69 county court act 1984 from 20/12/2012 to date at 8% per annum amounting to **.**

The PoC are generic, however, the do indicate that the original creditor was JD Williams, who are a catalogue company. They are part of the N Brown group, you may well recognise some of the other names and brands they use: http://www.nbrown.co.uk/jd_williams

[sparks]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Thanks for your response FlamingParrot.
I have checked the link you gave and the company I had an account with is listed so I can only presume that there is a good chance this claim is linked to that.
If this is the case then I did have an account but in my opinion there should be no debt on this account. I first had this account 5 or 6 years ago and all was well with it until about 4.5 years ago. Over a period of a few months I had problems with some items I had ordered not being delivered and some items I had returned not being shown as received back by the company. At the time I had several phone calls with the company and it appeared on investigation that the problem fell with one of the couriers they had been using (although I have no proof of this). They agreed to adjust my statement to take account of these missing items. When I got my next statement from them they had made some of the adjustments but there was still a few items listed that I was not in possession of. I telephoned the company again but when the next statement came the adjustment had still not been made and charges had been added. At that point I asked the company to send me a full statement of my account and I went through it marking off what items I did or didn’t have. Taking into account what I had already paid in previous months I worked out that I had a balance of around £9 and paid this to the company. I also sent a letter with a copy of the statement explaining what I had done. The following month I had yet another statement still showing the items on my account plus more charges. I telephoned and wrote a few more times but never got a positive response that this had been sorted out. This last correspondence was about 4 years ago and contact from them then stopped. I do not recall being sent a default notice or notice that the account had been assigned to anyone else.
In September last year I had a letter from BC informing me that a court claim would be made against me if I did not pay them. This came out of the blue and as I didn’t recognise the company name or consider I had any debt I sent them the usual letters requesting they prove the debt and provide CCA and other supporting documentation. I heard nothing further from them until the court papers arrived this March.
The only evidence I have is copies of some of the letters I sent and a copy of my statement showing some items adjusted and some not and any payments I had made into the account. I have no evidence regarding the courier problems (I was told that they were subsequently sacked due to several allegations but this is certainly not something I can prove). I suspect that BC has no supporting paperwork for his claim but I am concerned that if I tell the court all of the above then they will find in BC’s favour even if he has no supporting paperwork as I do not have full evidence. As you say FlamingParrot I know that I won’t be found “guilty” as such and that was the wrong choice of word but I do not want to be paying BC several hundred pounds that neither he nor anyone else should be entitled to. And obviously with BC not having sent any supporting paperwork I still cannot be 100% sure that this is the account in question so would look pretty stupid if not!
So with those facts what would you say my best course of action is bearing in mind I only have 6 days left to file a defence as BC refused to agree an extension;
File a defence that I do not acknowledge the account on the grounds of lack of CCA / other paperwork provided.
File a defence that I acknowledge the account but state there should be no balance on it as per what I have said above.
Or apply to the court for BC to disclose documents?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

I suspect that BC has no supporting paperwork for his claim but I am concerned that if I tell the court all of the above then they will find in BC’s favour even if he has no supporting paperwork as I do not have full evidence. As you say FlamingParrot I know that I won’t be found “guilty” as such and that was the wrong choice of word but I do not want to be paying BC several hundred pounds that neither he nor anyone else should be entitled to. And obviously with BC not having sent any supporting paperwork I still cannot be 100% sure that this is the account in question so would look pretty stupid if not!
So with those facts what would you say my best course of action is bearing in mind I only have 6 days left to file a defence as BC refused to agree an extension;
File a defence that I do not acknowledge the account on the grounds of lack of CCA / other paperwork provided.
File a defence that I acknowledge the account but state there should be no balance on it as per what I have said above.
Or apply to the court for BC to disclose documents?

Given the uncertainty regarding the account as noted above, I'd be inclined to apply to the court, as you can't really file a defence blindly if you don't even know what account they are referring to.

[sparks]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Thanks.
I filed my acknowledgement through money claim - can I apply for disclosure through there too?
Obviously if I do that as opposed to submitting a defence what will happen when the 28 days are up? Will BC apply to the court for a judgement if I haven't submitted a defence?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Thanks.
I filed my acknowledgement through money claim - can I apply for disclosure through there too?
Obviously if I do that as opposed to submitting a defence what will happen when the 28 days are up? Will BC apply to the court for a judgement if I haven't submitted a defence?

You can't do that through MCOL, it requires you to submit an N244 application form, draft order and a witness statement with full details of everything you did to try and get them to send you the documents. They won't be able to obtain judgment without supplying the documents, if they don't, they claim may be stayed or even struck out if you're lucky. ray:

I've just posted about the process to be followed on this other thread: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...432#post423432

[sparks]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Many thanks for the link to all that helpful information.

Just one more question at the moment - do you know if there is an email address I can send these documents to as I need to get them to the court before next Wednesday (9th) and with the weekend and everything I would rather email than post to be certain they get there in time.

Also do I have to submit a holding defence on MCOL while I do this or is sending the N224 sufficient for the court to realise why a defence has not been submitted?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Many thanks for the link to all that helpful information.

Just one more question at the moment - do you know if there is an email address I can send these documents to as I need to get them to the court before next Wednesday (9th) and with the weekend and everything I would rather email than post to be certain they get there in time.

You need to send them with a fee as noted here: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...424#post410424
They should get there by Wednesday.

Also do I have to submit a holding defence on MCOL while I do this or is sending the N224 sufficient for the court to realise why a defence has not been submitted?

No, if you are making an application, do not submit a defence.

[sparks]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Thanks again for all your help.

Have spent hours preparing the various documents tonight and will be posting off recorded delivery in the morning.

Will update when I have any news or further questions!

[sparks]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Hi I need some more advice please.

I should be fee exempt when submitting my N244 but have had the forms returned as the exemption evidence I submitted has been rejected. As far as I was concerned this evidence was acceptable and I have nothing else I can submit so the only option would be to pay. In with the returned forms was a fee revision leaflet saying that from 22nd April the fee for N244 application with a hearing has gone up to £155. Obviously with Easter I cannot contact them and pay before this date and they will obviously not take into account that my forms were sent in prior to this and it was not my fault they were rejected. I cannot afford to pay £155 and I think this is a huge amount to pay out as how I understand it paying for the application does not even guarantee the judge will accept it.

So I am left with two options - resubmit the N244 forms and change it to without a hearing as that has gone up but only to £50 which is slightly more do-able. I am aware that this can sometimes get the application rejected straight away. The other option is to see if the court would still accept an embarrassed defence seeing as I have not seen any paperwork relating to the alleged debt so cannot defend properly. It is nearly 2 weeks past when a defence should have been submitted but I am not sure if the court have taken into account that I have been trying to make an N244 application. If I did go down the embarrassed defence route obviously BC would want to continue with the claim - once it got to a hearing would they be forced to show any documentation to the judge and myself or would the judge just award them their whole claim just because they had asked for it?

In light of the above please can someone advise what they think I should do next.

[sparks]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Hi I need some more advice please.

I should be fee exempt when submitting my N244 but have had the forms returned as the exemption evidence I submitted has been rejected. As far as I was concerned this evidence was acceptable and I have nothing else I can submit so the only option would be to pay. In with the returned forms was a fee revision leaflet saying that from 22nd April the fee for N244 application with a hearing has gone up to £155. Obviously with Easter I cannot contact them and pay before this date and they will obviously not take into account that my forms were sent in prior to this and it was not my fault they were rejected. I cannot afford to pay £155 and I think this is a huge amount to pay out as how I understand it paying for the application does not even guarantee the judge will accept it.

So I am left with two options - resubmit the N244 forms and change it to without a hearing as that has gone up but only to £50 which is slightly more do-able. I am aware that this can sometimes get the application rejected straight away. The other option is to see if the court would still accept an embarrassed defence seeing as I have not seen any paperwork relating to the alleged debt so cannot defend properly. It is nearly 2 weeks past when a defence should have been submitted but I am not sure if the court have taken into account that I have been trying to make an N244 application. If I did go down the embarrassed defence route obviously BC would want to continue with the claim - once it got to a hearing would they be forced to show any documentation to the judge and myself or would the judge just award them their whole claim just because they had asked for it?

In light of the above please can someone advise what they think I should do next.

[mystery1]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Phone the court on Tuesday and discuss the exemption refusal and secondary to that the fee amount. Then decide.

M1

[sparks]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

Thanks for your reply mystery1.

Well I phoned the court and there is no way they will let me pay the old fee even though my N244 forms were originally sent in before the fee increase. Therefore if I want a hearing I have to pay £155 which is obviously nearly double the old fee and is more than I can afford and obviously there is no guarantees the judge would accept the application so that money could be lost for nothing. As I understand it from reading posts on here a lot of these type of applications end up processing without a hearing anyway as they are quite basic and only relate to disclosure so I don't see how come they don't refund part of the fee if you have ticked the box for a hearing but then don't have one?!

I asked the chap if I was to re-submit the forms and request for no hearing (at a cost of £50) if this would be thrown out straight away. Initially he told me that I would have to have a hearing as I was the defendant and the case would have to be looked at again but then he put me on hold and excused himself and came back and told me that I could request not to have a hearing!

I also asked him about the other option of putting in an embarrassed defence as I had not had sight of any documentation. I asked him if it then went on to a hearing would BC then have to produce any documentation at that point. He said that they would at the actual hearing but he wasn't sure they would have to before that. I guess if BC continued with the claim at this point I could safely assume they did have some kind of paperwork but obviously I would then not have a chance to know what this related to until I was actually there.

At the end of the day the last thing I want to do is pay out for an N244 application if this will get refused and then still end up at court and potentially having to pay the full claim as well if the judge decided in favour of BC as I would still have no idea to what this related and therefore no evidence in my favour.

I have never had to deal with anything like this before so have no idea what to do for the best. I have to go into hospital next week so whatever I do needs to be done by tomorrow as if I don't sort this soon I am sure they will be applying for a judgement if they don't already have one in process. Would be grateful for any thoughts.

[Amethyst]

Re: Bryan carter claim – defence help required

The new court fees are prohibitive and that's makes it incredibly unfair to the everyday litigant in person on the receiving end of a claim.

I have thought about this over the last few days whilst looking at these new fees and I think we are forced into a position of defending the claim based on the lack of information.

Your defence would basically be the information you posted in post 3 but not in quite so much detail. We'll help with an outline. See what Mystery1 thinks too though.

You sent a CCA request for the agreement and a CPR 31.14 request for information ? as we can include those details in the defence.