How do you take your council to court for everyone

[enquirer]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

To be honest, I do not see a successful prosecution for fraud. Yes, they have flagrantly manipulated the figures, but then so does every government department, including the police. The establishment will pull together and you will find yourself going nowhere - at least as in so far as the courts are concerned.

You could try a complaint of maladministration, but my money would be on getting this written up properly with all the necessary supporting documents, and then approaching either Private Eye or Sue Reid at the Daily Mail. If they use it, then it might be taken up by an MP.

It's publicity and political fallout that they fear, not prosecution.

[Amethyst]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

I think further than manipulating the figures to make the books look good, their manipulation of the figures appears to have meant they issued thousands of liability orders where they were unnecessary, which added costs on to people council tax 'debt' .

How is the value of the CT debts sent to Liability Orders known - did you get a list through FOI ?

[enquirer]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

I think further than manipulating the figures to make the books look good, their manipulation of the figures appears to have meant they issued thousands of liability orders where they were unnecessary, which added costs on to people council tax 'debt'.

A successful complaint of Gross Maladministration could mean that the Council is forced to refund that money.

[Blue Knight]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

I would suggest a criminal Fraud case would fail as there is no beneficiary of the actions, other than reduced scrutiny on the council. As Enquirer has mentioned the fudging of performance figures is endemic in all public organisations and their is little likelihood that CPS or the Police would want to go near this for that very reason.
You may have a strong case for malfeasance or misconduct in a public office if you have proof the Monitoring Officers were deliberately negligent in their duties, but that is down to the individuals and wouldn't see the council refunding anything...

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

I expect criminal proceedings to be taken by the goverment.

I have proof that the monitoring officer and 2 others purposefully manipulated the system to hide the figures, on many occasions.

I dont think the council/court have a choice about refunding and compensating people. They have knowingly and false presented LOs at court, for as low as a penny, year after year.

All the figures i got are through FOI requests on WDTK, and i had to fight for the ones that expose the figures. That is telling in its self.

Both compalints of maladministrations, regulators are usless, becuase the regulators are unions ( cipfa Solace ). I have just sucsessfully been thought one, took 3 years. am the first member of public to trigger one, they was already investigation for me, when the iclandic crash happened ( our council worst in contry for that and had PIR ).

This is specificaly a problem becuase of the roles the monitoring officer has played in our council, and who he has promoted.

am trying to think of a basic explination of the fraud so you can understand why it can be focused.

2003< SCR hits below 94%, auditors sent in automaticaly, CEO sacked, ( its a big deal ). 2004 monitoring officer promotoin, failing manager of council tax, promoted to records manager.

2004, council tax collection methods changed within council systems, by monitoring officer and 3 seniors, a number of councilors complain, but its passed.

The change, purposefully adds approx 2000 false LOs ( under 100 or paid ) and helps cover another 2000 that are not process correctly ( benefits, doublr charges ).

The SCR is reported only for the current year, changes afterwords ( pushback from baillifs, corrections ) are not reported in the systems. So, they manipulated the systems to falsy increase the SCR to avoid automatic ic audit. every year since 2004, with the figures corrected, would have put them below 94%.

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

There are some fixed point of fraud in this ,

Monitoring officers duties include makeing sure all court paperwork is correct and legal. ( signs )
The collection officer, signs a statement to the cleark, asuring him all documents are correct and legal ( neither the cleark or the court check them as there done 1000s at a time )

The legal cut off for LOs was £ 100.

I believe they breached the fruad act ( knowingly, false documents to court ) CPR, by signing them. The judges had no chance of actiobn correctly becuase they reliy on the systems prior to them, being run correctly. Council relied on this.

Just so you understand this clearly, and account on a liability order, is classes as suscessfull ( SRC ), regardless if it gets paid or not, or if its owed. ( bonkers accounting )

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Hi

Whats the proper documents and procedure for a harassment claim, or cease and disit.

As part of my action i received a letter for council legal, threatening me with legal action, third time now. I consider this harassment, because of the ongoing action.

I have already qualified the notice before claim last time.

So, i have written to the legal team, fully detailing there frauds, directly accusing them of involvment. I have accused 2 of them of wages fraud, and the senior legal officer ( monitoring officer ) , of fraud by falsification of documents.

I told them to take action against me in the next 14 days or i would consider there action as harrasment.

whats the proper paperwork and method.

[bluebottle]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Fraud, per se, has quite a high standard of proof - beyond all reasonable doubt - you have to be able to satisfy both parts of the Ghosh Test for dishonesty and identify the individuals responsible. Then you have to prove their mens rea and actus reus.

What might be easier is Negligent Misrepresentation, contrary to Section 7, Misrepresentation Act 1977. This is a civil tort with a lesser standard of proof - on balance of probability - and the onus probandi is reversed, that is, the burden of proof is on the defendant(s), not the claimant.

Without seeing the actual evidence you have, it is difficult to say whether the allegations of fraud are sound or not.

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Hi

mens rea and actus reus.

Yep, Guilty Act was swearing at the cout to the validity of liability orders in the bulk packs. ( there is a legal handover and sign off from monitoring officer, council court officer, and the clerk ) . Basically, the monitoring officer and court officer, have to swear/sign to say that all the liability orders presented in that pack, are legal and proper at the time of presenting them to the clerk, This is done so the court and clerk do not have to go through each order to check there correct .

What the council did, was hid all the illigal ones in here, knowing they would just be processed. Ok, you say, what makes them illigal..

I have found i suspect, approx 4000 PER year, from 2005-2013, of falsely gained LOs, but, lots of them, would be considered maladministration, BUT, each year, they have also processed approx 1200 that are illigal, All Liabilility ordser from between 1p and £ 99. then ther eare another approx 1500 PY, Double accounts ( charging 1 person, 2 propertys at same time, if they move between december and may, for full years ). The final true fraudulent ones are ones with payments made by the person, but not processed yet or properly by the council. The money ends up in the holding account. and the person gets a LO

There are many other types of wrong accounts, but all would be maladministration type offences. So i have concentrated on the unquestionable portion of false accounts.

I can prove the accused fully knew about the false acounts in many ways, but i have gone for the paperwork way, i have fought for years to get information released, I can prove the accused 1. Knew that the accounts contained accounts for pennys, 2. Fully knew there were unallocated payments in the Holding accouts, each time they signed the packs ( 4 times per year, 8 years ).

without going into long boring reason----- they needed the false liability orders because accounts on LOs are accounted for as successfully collected, wither they are or not. If they hit below 94%, they get automatic external audit. they have to report the SCR every 13 weeks. The fraudulent ones increased the rate from between 3.2% to 5%, depending on the year.

Ok, whats the loss.

£ 100 charges added for LOs ( even to accounts for 1p ), they also never remove the charges after correction, unless the correction is a double acc, or in the suspence acc. ( and canceling LOs afterwards, doesntg require reporting in the accounts, )

Further baillifs charges, ( £ 100-250 and worse ) ( the bailifs has to call the council and check the validity of the list he has that moring )

I hope i have explained that part right, They repeatedly committed many small individual frauds, on a large scale, to assisit, in false accounting, ----- meaning, 10s of thousands of people, have paid a few million in false fees...... although the false fees are bad, that not the part i am sayins if fraudulent, its processing the false LOs to fudge the SCR

[bluebottle]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Okay. Thank you, CC.

If a legal professional misleads a court, that is serious professional misconduct which can lead to them being struck-off. If you have evidence that a legal professional has mislead a court, this should be reported to the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) and the Correspondence, Complaints and Litigation Unit at H.M. Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS CCLU), moreso if you have evidence that a legal professional has been colluding with court staff.

Other issues that come into play are -

Section 6, Human Rights Act 1998 (Public Authority Performing Act(s) Which Are Incompatible With A Person's Convention Rights).

The Convention Rights would be Article 6 (Right to A Fair Hearing) and Article 18 (Restriction of Convention Rights).

Perverting the Course of Justice (Common Law).

The fact the court is being mislead and, I suspect, court officials know it is going on and do nothing to stop it, would give rise to this. However, it would be a case of applying pressure to CPS to get them to run with.

Section 7, Misrepresentation Act 1977 (Negligent Misrepresentation)

As previously stated, this would, probably, be easier to litigate as the burden of proof would be on the defendant. Put them to strict proof and my suspicion is the council officers would be squealing like stuck pigs.

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

hi

If you have evidence that a legal professional has mislead a court, this should be reported to the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) and the Correspondence, Complaints and Litigation Unit at H.M. Courts and Tribunals Service (HMCTS CCLU),

I have to go to the regulators and courts at the same time, bewcuase if not, if i go to court, He will say its a regulator thing, and visa versa, i went through this when pushing alan madin through CIPFA. Legal officers are slippy +?@#$%£ .... so you hve to antisipate there moves

Re the other charges you suggest.

I am going to lay every charge i think it fits and let the court decide the most appropreate. BUT, am am pushing for a straight breach of the fraud act, making or useing false documentation to gain an advantage, as it seem to fit perfectly to what they have done and i have paperwoprk proof for.

• "Fraud by false representation" is defined by Section 2 of the Act as a case where a person makes "any representation as to fact or law ... express or implied" which they know to be untrue or misleading.

• "Fraud by failing to disclose information" is defined by Section 3 of the Act as a case where a person fails to disclose any information to a third party when they are under a legal duty to disclose such information.

• "Fraud by abuse of position" is defined by Section 4 of the Act as a case where a person occupies a position where they are expected to safeguard the financial interests of another person, and abuses that position; this includes cases where the abuse consisted of an omission rather than an overt act.

all three were breached. repeatedly

I need some advise on my personal claim for fraud on 5 of my personal accounts, i will write it up later

[bluebottle]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

CC,

I will be absolutely honest with you. You would be better going down the routes suggested by Enquirer and myself. Unless you have worked within the Criminal Justice System and have knowledge of the rules of evidence, etc., your chances of successfully securing a conviction on a private prosecution are remote to say the least. You would, in any case, have to persuade the CPS to run with the case and the prospect of successfully securing a conviction currently stands at 51% or higher.

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Hi

I will be absolutely honest with you. You would be better going down the routes suggested by Enquirer and myself. Unless you have worked within the Criminal Justice System and have knowledge of the rules of evidenc

Sort of, spent lots of time since 2001 fighting false LOs for CT. Council went to bankrupt me over them from 2006. Bankrupty details on here but i had to stop publishing details as per an agreement with the trustee. I can say, the costs of my bankruptcy went up to 238,000 with the trustee. I got evicted from my house while fighting but managed to get a judge to block the sale whilst we sorted out trustees costs.

The agreement with the trustee ( to avoid my claim against them ) ment i can only really say
1. I got my house back after 2 years.......... ( my house has app £ 120,000 assit ( val £ 160k morgagee 25k ))........HOW RARE IS THAT TO GET IT BACK.
2. i got a deal that left me very satisfied, but allowed me to take action against false claimants.
3. Water Co, Electgric Co and one other paid up for false claims. The other one, paid up substantially, so i can put 8k asside for the above action...

and, ther is no illwill between me and the trustee, infact, when i went to sigh up the deal, his solicitors were very nice, explained everything and well all agreed that we would have never met if the council had not put in the false claim..........

During the above 6 year fight, i learnt the court evidence and process, infact i stopped work to work full time on it from 2010. Lower courts can be a Joke, high courts not like it though, I always prenseted my claims properly and fully, twice at high court, the judges commended me afterwards how i had presented myself as i LIP. I had 12 court appearances over it, and 2 high court.

So, i have about say 5k, to spend on this but i want to do it myself
I do get some top quality legal help when i ask, becuase of another deal i did, and was helped with paperwork by them to deal with trustee. But the legal help is in planning and paperwork only, but it is top quality, but it take time. I get this becuase i have an uncanny knack at being able to understand how to legally acquire paperwork, and the ability to check most systems remotely first to see what paperwork exists,:tinysmile_aha_t:

Bedcuase of the evidence, and the ammount of people affected, and the millions in false costs they paid, i suspect the court application will start a domino effect.

[bluebottle]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Fraudulent bankruptcy proceedings are becoming more common. I am currently helping someone, not on LB, deal with one and it is so blatant and obvious that it is fraudulent, to me, being an ex-copper, it is a walk in the park. Even the court staff where the BO was allegedly granted are saying there is no BO. The trustee is digging a hole for themselves and the OR, as well as a number of other people.

Where the lower courts are concerned, the HMCTS CCLU are very helpful and JACO are worth speaking to when you come across DJs, DDJs and CJs who are, for want of a better phrase "rubber-stamping clowns". I know someone who called a judge a "rubber-stamping clown" when the judge got up and walked out of the court when challenged as to the case or statute law they were acting under.

Criminal Law can be a minefield if you are not familiar with its "ifs", "ands" and "buts".

[Crazy council]

Re: How do you take your council to court for everyone

Trustees rules changed 2009, they were +@~} bandits before then. Cost regulations are a good way i found at pocking holes with a trustee, after 2009, they have to prove the value of the hours charged. Although each different trustee regulators interpret the new rules differently, they are quite good,

Fraudulent bankruptcy proceedings are becoming more common.

Its shocking how easy dodgy paperwork gets through our legal systems, especialy accounts. Once its enter the system, its very hard to sort it out. Good luck to your friend, but its a horrible situation to go through, if he has a house, tell him to be very carfull not to let the time run out.