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Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

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  • Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

    Hi,

    I'd be grateful if someone would give me some advice about Council Tax arrears and the fees and charges that Bailiffs are permitted to charge for the costs they incur while they perform their services in order to recover arrears in Council Tax.

    My understanding is that the level of 'fees' Bailiffs are able charge is prescribed by law. It is also my understanding that Council in England have a duty in law to ensure that the Bailiffs they employ to undertake this work observe the rules and regulations? Is this correct?

    Are there any remedies available to those of us who have been overcharged by bailiffs, and if so, how do I go about recovering my money and from whom?

    I am asking the question because I have recently asked the bailiffs for a statement of account which they duly provided in the form of a letter. The statement shows that I have been charged a sum of £497.52p in total. This sum was made up of four separate items: Five First Letter fees charged at £24.50 per item (£122.50); Four Second Letter fees charged at £18.00 per item (£72.00); Three separate Levy fees (£42.04, £14.24 and £26.74) amounting to £83.02; and two separate attendance fees, one of £125 and one of £90, amounting to £200.

    I only recall there being one visit to my property rather than the two separate visits they claim to have made in the letter they send to me. Also, I am not clear about the Levy fees, if they only visited my property one occasion how can the bailiffs justify charging three separate fees? Last, but not least, I doubt that the fees they charge for the sending out letters are fair or reasonable in any circumstances?

    On this last point, my feeling is that the level fees and charges that a bailiff is able to charge (legally) should depend on the personal circumstances of the person on whom they're being imposed? What is the legal position on this issue?

    Many thanks.

    A

  • #2
    Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

    Well,,125 and 90 is 215 so they're a bit out there lol
    As for the others,,I don't have a clue but the clever bods will pop by soon

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

      How many Liability Orders are against you & how much do you owe on each one - as confirmed by the Council, not the Bailiffs? Have they given you the dates to go with the charges?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

        You need to speak to someone at the Council and ask the following questions:
        1 - how many Liability Orders they have against you
        2 - the dates they were obtained
        3 - the addresses they were for
        4 - the period of time each covers
        5 - how much each one was for
        6 - how much is still outstanding
        7 - the dates they were passed on for enforcement
        8 - the dates & amounts of any payments

        You can always pay the Council direct at a level you can afford by using online banking,the Council website or their automated service via the electric telephone.

        Which firm of bailiffs is it?

        Which council is it? (I want to find the Head of Revenues and/or Chief Executive Officer for you.)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

          From their reference to "letter fees", one might suspect the firm could be Equita.

          Suffice it to say that, when Council Tax is being enforced, no letter fees are payable.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

            Hi,

            Many thanks for your comments and my apologies in advance for another long post.

            Thanks to Inca for pointing out the error in my sums. I was undone by two typos. The numbers for the attendance fees are £125 and £95, or a total of £220.

            In answer to Ploddertom, it seems that there were five Liability Orders made against me. In saying this, you should be aware that my paperwork is in a mess and so I'm relying on the Bailiff's figures and not the Council's for the time being.

            All five Liability Orders would have been made against me between 2008 and 2013. Again, in saying this I'm relying on the Bailiff's figures: three of the five orders are clear with no balances outstanding showing on them, nothing is owed on them. The two remaining Liability Orders - the Bailiff calls them 'cases' - have £200.43 and £1076.27 outstanding on them, bringing the total to £1276.70 as at 31st December 2013.

            I don't have the dates for any of the Liability Orders, or not yet anyway, but I'll definitely ask the Council for them when I next write to them - which I think is going to be soon. Very soon!

            Thanks also to Cleverclogs for his comments and for me to confirm that the Liability Orders were made on the same property. The firm of Bailiffs is Stanford and Green and the council is Tunbridge Wells Borough Council. I can also confirm that know the names of the service heads and their contact details, which I have already: Mr William Benson is the Chief Executive (Head of Paid Service), and Mr Lee Colyer is the Head of Finance and Governance (Section 151 Officer).

            So, moving on, and to bring you up-to-date, I wrote to the Council earlier in January asking them to provide me with a full breakdown of the payments (on a month by month basis) that I had made to them for all years between September 2007 - when I first bought the house - until January 2014. They replied by letter showing a breakdown of receipts and payments year by year, which essentially was what I had asked them to do.

            What I really wanted to do was to get to a reconciliation of the figures that both the Bailiffs and the Council had sent me. This is not as straightforward or as simple as it should be, in part because the Bailiffs show their figures in a summary form and on a case by case basis, whereas the council provides its figures on monthly basis for each of the relevant financial years, e.g. from 1st April 2010 to 31st March 2011.

            To complicate matters further, I was in receipt of two forms of benefit for the periods 2008/09 and again in 2009/10; the first being JSA and the second being something called New Deal 50+ . So far as I can see the benefits were applied correctly to my Council Tax 'account' by the Council. Although, I have to say that the whole issue of 'benefits' is a bit of a mystery to me, as I'm sure it is to a lot of other people?

            You should also know that the figures that the Council sent to me contain a number of errors, which doesn't exactly give me a lot of confidence in the ability of the Council to resolve the problem(s) I have with. So, to give you an example, the breakdown of the figures for the Council Tax for the period April 2010 to 31st March 2011 doesn't add up, the payments I actually made for the charge period do not equal the charge, although the balance outstanding for this period is shown as £0.0. In my case, the CT charge is for Band D, minus single persons discount, plus the court costs, you'd think that the calculation should be simple enough for the Council to do, wouldn't you? In this case, the error happens to be in my favour to the tune of £31.26.

            The Council's letter dated 24th January 2014, states that there is a 'balance due for the 2012/13 tax year of £1111.20 which is with the Bailiff for collection'.

            So, where do I go from here, bearing mind that I have already incurred costs of £472 which are due to the Council and presumably for Court fees, together with costs of £497.52 (allegedly) which are due to the Bailiff. I should say that I get some comfort from knowing - or at least I assume - that these costs amounting to £969.62 in total are included in the figure of £1110.20 that the Council thinks I owe them.

            Looking through my bank statements I know two things. First, I know the time a date of every transaction and the amount of money I have paid to the Council over the past seven years. Secondly, and in the same way, the time and date of the all the monies I have paid to the bailiff over the past five years. I should add that I also know that the DWP paid my benefits directly to the Council such as thy were because these are shown in a summary form on the letter that the Council sent to me on 24th January 2014.

            I won't bore you with the details, but the years between 2008 and 2011 have been particularly difficult for me. I am keen to move on and to put the whole matter behind me, but I get the impression that the staff at the Council are ignorant of the rules and I find them to be unhelpful for these reasons. I am not clear that they have or are aware of a policy for Bailiffs' charges and regulations or for their dealings dealing with 'vulnerable people' in general.

            Given the circumstances, what do you suggest I should do next?

            Many thanks in advance.

            Cheers

            G
            Last edited by Gonzalo; 20th February 2014, 18:34:PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

              You certainly need a breakdown of the fees demanded by the bailiffs, as it is quite likely (or almost certain) that some will have been bogus, inappropriate or otherwise unlawful. Use letter #1 from http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters

              Apart from that, one can merely repeat the celebrated words of George Frederic Handel: "God rot Tunbridge Wells!". :grin:

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

                I find for more than 3 Liability Orders it is easier to use a spreadsheet, meaning you can see quite easily at a glance. With there being so much it may be worth considering serving a Subject Access Request on both Council & Bailiffs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

                  Thanks guys, you may be interested to know that a letter is winging its way to Messrs Stanford and Green as I type this!

                  Here's one for Cleverclogs. You said earlier that 'suffice it to say that, when Council Tax is being enforced, no letter fees are payable.'

                  Really, I had no idea? Can you point me to link to where I can find out more?

                  Cheers

                  G

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

                    Have a read
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

                      OK, I'm not sure what to say! I'm both baffled and curious?

                      So, I've read the attached PDF file and the other letters you've pointed me towards in some amazement. If, as you point out, the fees being charged by the bailiffs are clearly unlawful, and in direct contravention of the Council Tax Administration and Enforcement Regulations, as amended by Statutory Instrument in 2006: how do they get away with it?

                      It must be fraudulent!?

                      The council(s) must be aware of the situation and the level of fees that their agents - the bailiffs in this case - are charging people who're falling into arrears with their Council Tax payments. I assume the council(s) has a duty of care and various other legal obligations in owes its local taxpayers, and if so what remedies does someone like me have in terms of obtaining some measure of redress. I'm saying this because it seems to me that I've paid fees and charges substantially in excess of what I was legally required to pay the bailiff?

                      So, right now, it seems to me that Bailiffs can indulge themselves in a substantial amount of illegal and speculative invoicing with the full knowledge of the local council?
                      Finally, I'm paying off my 'arrears' and that includes both the 'fees' and some arrears in Council tax from previous years at an agreed rate per month by standing order. I am in credit on my Council Tax for the current year. Should I stop or reduce the standing order?

                      Thanks again.

                      G

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

                        You are not the first or the last this will happen to. The Council probably haven't a clue and therefore invariably believe everything the Bailiffs tell them. This is one of those moments when the Bailiff tells the Council the moon is made of cream cheese and are believed. usually if the Bailiffs tell them they have to jump the Council want to know how high. Of course they become very embarrassed once they are sussed.

                        Once you have the figures from both Council & Bailiffs we can help you sort fact from fiction.

                        As for you now being in credit this is because the reference you are using will be this years. On the paperwork the Bailiff has left you are the reference numbers the same or not? You will have to tell the Council your amounts in credit need to be credited to the arrears otherwise it will be credited against next years bill.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

                          Page 4 of the following explains how the council's system might allocate payments:

                          HYNDBURN BOROUGH COUNCIL COUNCIL TAX AND NATIONAL NON DOMESTIC RATES RECOVERY POLICY – GUIDANCE
                          "When any payment is received by the Council it will, unless otherwise specified by the Taxpayer, reduce the balance outstanding for the current year’s outstanding Council Tax or NNDR. Once payment in full has been made for the current financial year any payments subsequently received will go towards reducing any outstanding arrears from previous financial years.

                          If a Taxpayer advises the Council that a payment that has been made and used to reduced indebtedness for the current year was actually intended to reduce outstanding arrears for previous years then the payment will be moved to where it was intended to go by the Taxpayer, subject to the Council’s discretion. However, if moving the payment would actually result in a summons that had been quite properly issued, being rendered unnecessary the payment will not usually be moved.

                          There is one exception to this general principle, where a Taxpayer makes a payment which matches an instalment or other amount outstanding such payment will automatically be posted to the matched sum outstanding. Wherever possible these payments will be reallocated as indicted above if brought to the Council’s attention
                          .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

                            Originally posted by outlawlgo View Post
                            Page 4 of the following explains how the council's system might allocate payments:

                            HYNDBURN BOROUGH COUNCIL COUNCIL TAX AND NATIONAL NON DOMESTIC RATES RECOVERY POLICY – GUIDANCE
                            "When any payment is received by the Council it will, unless otherwise specified by the Taxpayer, reduce the balance outstanding for the current year’s outstanding Council Tax or NNDR. Once payment in full has been made for the current financial year any payments subsequently received will go towards reducing any outstanding arrears from previous financial years.

                            If a Taxpayer advises the Council that a payment that has been made and used to reduced indebtedness for the current year was actually intended to reduce outstanding arrears for previous years then the payment will be moved to where it was intended to go by the Taxpayer, subject to the Council’s discretion. However, if moving the payment would actually result in a summons that had been quite properly issued, being rendered unnecessary the payment will not usually be moved.

                            There is one exception to this general principle, where a Taxpayer makes a payment which matches an instalment or other amount outstanding such payment will automatically be posted to the matched sum outstanding. Wherever possible these payments will be reallocated as indicted above if brought to the Council’s attention
                            .
                            Nice one, Outlawlgo. What you have posted has revealed potentially unlawful practices by the public authority whose name appears at the beginning of the post. I have highlighted the practices in red. Notwithstanding that the court hearings at which any Liability Orders were granted breach Article 6 of the Rome Convention in any case, the practices revealed in your post may well breach Article 6 also. A public authority, which includes a local authority, council officers, civil enforcement companies contracted by a local authority and individual bailiffs, acts unlawfully if it or they perform any act which is incompatible with a person's Convention rights. This is covered by Section 6, Human Rights Act 1998. Convention rights are to be found under Schedule 1 of the Act.
                            Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Council Tax - Bailiff's Fees and Charges

                              BB,

                              Here and elsewhere you have put a very credible argument about the Rome Convention and the HRA. Is there any case law at all to back this up yet, or are we awaiting a test case by someone brave enough to invest, or lucky enough to get pro bono representation?

                              At this stage it is still best to stick to the basics IMO, and I'd be inclined to send a SAR to both the bailiff company and the council (Number 3 from here http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Useful-Letters)

                              Comment

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