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Mobile provider withholding numbers

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  • Mobile provider withholding numbers

    Hi all,

    I wonder if anyone can provide some guidance or point me in the direction of any legislation with regards to the below.

    I have a business account with a platinum partner (reseller) of one of the major mobile telecom providers. A contract was took out for them to provide us with over 1000 mobile phones and connections under a deal.

    Everything has been fine with the service until lately they have told me that we owe them additional monies as they messed up the contract (verbally). The wanted us to pay them the "dept" and sign a new contract.

    i asked for a breakdown of costs so that they could be measured against they current contract to which they ignored.

    later they returned to say, your debt is now higher we want you to sign this new contract for an addition year and we will forget about the debt. I have read through the new contract and to be frank it is a convoluted mess.

    i have told them that we will not be singing the new contract, at which time they told us that they own all of our numbers and will pull them if we do no resign. When I asked how this was possible they said that all of the numbers they had provided to us had been transferred to them as part of the migration from our previous supplier. There is nothing in the contract to this affect and therefore nothing to reasonably assume this was the case.

    Does anyone know enough about this part of law to understand if this is even legal? I have looked at ofcom regs and all terms I can find but nothing is clear cut. Ofcom just say that the customer has a right to move the number but does not define who the customer is, I.e. The partner of the telco company is their customer and I am the resellers but they say nothing about this in their own general terms.

    if anyone can give any pointers to set me on this no doubt eventful journey it would be appreciated.

    thanks.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

    Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

    It sounds very much that you need to speak to a legal professional who specialises in Contract Law for advice and, also, as to what options are open to you. The reason I say this is because the telecoms provider does not appear to have a clue about even the basics of Contract Law. A consultation with a legal professional now may save you money and headaches later down the line.
    Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

      Originally posted by bluebottle View Post
      Hi and welcome to Legal Beagles.

      It sounds very much that you need to speak to a legal professional who specialises in Contract Law for advice and, also, as to what options are open to you. The reason I say this is because the telecoms provider does not appear to have a clue about even the basics of Contract Law. A consultation with a legal professional now may save you money and headaches later down the line.
      Thanks for the reply.

      Yes I am going down this route in relation to the contract and the so called overspend in relation to that however I really wanted to try and find out what the position was with regards to the numbers if possible, i.e. what the industries legal take on this point is.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

        Originally posted by Neilmoir View Post
        Thanks for the reply.

        Yes I am going down this route in relation to the contract and the so called overspend in relation to that however I really wanted to try and find out what the position was with regards to the numbers if possible, i.e. what the industries legal take on this point is.
        Before I contact another Beagle who has worked in the industry, could you advise which telecoms provider is involved, please?
        Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

          Thanks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

            Originally posted by Neilmoir View Post
            Vodafone is the actual telco.
            I'll PM one of our members who has worked in the industry and ask them to look in.
            Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

              Originally posted by Neilmoir View Post
              Hi all,

              I wonder if anyone can provide some guidance or point me in the direction of any legislation with regards to the below.

              I have a business account with a platinum partner (reseller) of one of the major mobile telecom providers. A contract was took out for them to provide us with over 1000 mobile phones and connections under a deal.

              Everything has been fine with the service until lately they have told me that we owe them additional monies as they messed up the contract (verbally). The wanted us to pay them the "dept" and sign a new contract.

              i asked for a breakdown of costs so that they could be measured against they current contract to which they ignored.

              later they returned to say, your debt is now higher we want you to sign this new contract for an addition year and we will forget about the debt. I have read through the new contract and to be frank it is a convoluted mess.

              i have told them that we will not be singing the new contract, at which time they told us that they own all of our numbers and will pull them if we do no resign. When I asked how this was possible they said that all of the numbers they had provided to us had been transferred to them as part of the migration from our previous supplier. There is nothing in the contract to this affect and therefore nothing to reasonably assume this was the case.

              Does anyone know enough about this part of law to understand if this is even legal? I have looked at ofcom regs and all terms I can find but nothing is clear cut. Ofcom just say that the customer has a right to move the number but does not define who the customer is, I.e. The partner of the telco company is their customer and I am the resellers but they say nothing about this in their own general terms.

              if anyone can give any pointers to set me on this no doubt eventful journey it would be appreciated.

              thanks.
              Hi BB pmed me to have a look in to this and my first thought is HUH???

              You took your contract out through a 3rd party, so have you got a date your contract will end?
              If so, at that point contact the provider NOT the 3rd party and ask to resign with them direct, as the number is allocated to the network they will not need the 3rd party's permission to do this.

              If you ask any provider for a PAC code they must BY LAW provide it, unless you are in debt with the provider when they can insist payment is made first, but the 3rd party cannot stop this process as long as your original contract has expired.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

                Originally posted by Hurricane Puffrose View Post
                Hi BB pmed me to have a look in to this and my first thought is HUH???

                You took your contract out through a 3rd party, so have you got a date your contract will end?
                If so, at that point contact the provider NOT the 3rd party and ask to resign with them direct, as the number is allocated to the network they will not need the 3rd party's permission to do this.

                If you ask any provider for a PAC code they must BY LAW provide it, unless you are in debt with the provider when they can insist payment is made first, but the 3rd party cannot stop this process as long as your original contract has expired.
                Thanks for looking in and advising, Puff. Much appreciated.
                Life is a journey on which we all travel, sometimes together, but never alone.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

                  Your are most welcome my dear, sorry it took a while but I am mad busy at work atm, and time is scarce
                  I am now full time, so it may be a while between posts.

                  While i think of it, if you DO get a PAC code from your provider, you MUST register it within 30days to a new provider, if you are happy with the service you are getting network wise (coverage etc) with Vodafone I would suggest you ask them to raise a partner investigation form.. but we have a "tame" vodafone advisor here (and I mean with with the greatest of affection and respect) I will mail him and see if he can help too.. I am sure he will be very concerned!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

                    Originally posted by Hurricane Puffrose View Post
                    Hi BB pmed me to have a look in to this and my first thought is HUH???

                    You took your contract out through a 3rd party, so have you got a date your contract will end?
                    If so, at that point contact the provider NOT the 3rd party and ask to resign with them direct, as the number is allocated to the network they will not need the 3rd party's permission to do this.

                    If you ask any provider for a PAC code they must BY LAW provide it, unless you are in debt with the provider when they can insist payment is made first, but the 3rd party cannot stop this process as long as your original contract has expired.
                    Thanks for responding.

                    Yes the contract has an end date. However that is the end date between us and the 3rd party.

                    As the 3rd party sees it the mobiles are registered in their names with the provider so I can not contact the provider and take ownership of the numbers as we are not the account holders. If I contact the provider they refuse to provide anything and refer me to the 3rd party who are the registered account holders. The provider must only provide the PAC code by law if you are the account holder.

                    P.s. Even if there was a debt to the 3rd party, if the account was in our name then they would still need provide the PAC under ofcom regulations.

                    Does this make the situation any clearer?

                    Thanks.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

                      this is to the best of my knowledge, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if the actual account is in the name of your third party, Vodaphone are right!

                      If for example your business is Mr J Smiths Chip Shop, and you can pass Data Protection with Vodaphone, as long as that account is in the name of Mr J Smiths Chip Shop, if your actual phone bill is up to date, you can get a PAC code.

                      But, if your account is in the name of I Provide Mobile Contracts Ltd and you use their numbers, Vodaphone cannot give you the PAC code without their permission. It's kinda like you phoning up and saying Hi, I'm fred and I would like a PAC code for Puff's phone. They will tell you to ring me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

                        Originally posted by Hurricane Puffrose View Post
                        this is to the best of my knowledge, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if the actual account is in the name of your third party, Vodaphone are right!

                        If for example your business is Mr J Smiths Chip Shop, and you can pass Data Protection with Vodaphone, as long as that account is in the name of Mr J Smiths Chip Shop, if your actual phone bill is up to date, you can get a PAC code.

                        But, if your account is in the name of I Provide Mobile Contracts Ltd and you use their numbers, Vodaphone cannot give you the PAC code without their permission. It's kinda like you phoning up and saying Hi, I'm fred and I would like a PAC code for Puff's phone. They will tell you to ring me.
                        Yes I understand, but the question is how it's it legal for the 3rd party to have ported our numbers (without our knowledge) from O2 to Vodafone under their name and then use that as sumountable blackmail to leverage extension of a contract. Especially a close and trusted partner of a major provider. Just seems a very odd and underhanded way for them to operate.

                        If I walked into carphone warehouse for example to move from O2 to Vodafone under a new contract I would not expect them to register it in their name as I as end user pay for it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

                          if the 3rd party are the named account holders, they can port to any network they like without the need to consult you.

                          Unfortunatly if you have agreed a contract with them as the account holders, there is little that Vodaphone can do as you were aware of this at point of sale.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Mobile provider withholding numbers

                            Originally posted by Hurricane Puffrose View Post

                            but we have a "tame" vodafone advisor here (and I mean with with the greatest of affection and respect) I will mail him and see if he can help too.. I am sure he will be very concerned!
                            Thanks for flagging this Puff.

                            Neilmoir,

                            As the account appears not to be registered with us directly I'm afraid there isn't a great deal I can do.

                            However, if you could PM me with the name of the reseller I'll do some digging to see if we can get this raised with them for investigation.

                            Kind regards,

                            Lee

                            Web Relations

                            Vodafone UK
                            I am an official company representative of Vodafone UK.

                            LegalBeagles has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help resolve issues.

                            This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by LegalBEAGLES.

                            Comment

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