Child Tax Credit Overpayment

[mohmmad786]

Hello everyone.

I was wondering if anyone can give us any advice on child tax credit overpayment.

I am from Pakistan and my wife is British. My case was in the home office for around 2 years and got my residence permit in June 2011. I applied for national insurance number and got it 31 October 2011.

My wife and I got married in 2005 but due to me not having any paper work and due to problem with money we did not apply for my immigration papers till 2007. Because of all that my wife was receiving tax credit under single person.

As my immigration papers went in the home office. My wife told tax credit on 30th march 2007 that she was wanted to change her single claim to joint claim but the problem was that they were asking for my national insurance number which i didn't had. In the end wife spoke to some kind of manager at tax credit office over the phone who advised that the only way to get tax credit is for her to claim as a single parent.

As she was advised by someone at the tax credit office, my wife again made a claim under single parent so she can start receiving the money as the money was stopped on the joint claim as we could not provide tax credit with my NI number.

On 31 October I received my NI number. As my wife was and still suffering from depression and other health problems we decided that all the benefits would change under my name. As we thought the tax credit kind of knew that i was living over here, we left the tax credits till last and changed the income support and housing benefits under my name first. We also knew that we could have claimed more under a joint claim but that would have meant everything stopped at once and we would have no money to live on hence we thought that we would take less money rather than no money.

In may 2013 we received a letter from tax credit telling us that we have been Over paid from 31 October 2011 to January 2012. This was the period from which i got my NI number till the date we applied for the tax credit under joint claim.

We appealed against the decision which was turned down. We than tried to involve our MP who wrote the letter to tax credit and received the reply today saying that the overpayment is still due. Our MP asked them to apply the "NOTIONAL ENTITLEMENT" which was turned down as well.

It seems that the advice the wife was given about claiming as a single parent was under the table and the tax credit has totally denied any kind of advice given to my wife. However she must repay the overpayment of £2271.87, which occurred due to delay in her reporting her correct circumstances after 31 October 2011.
"In certain circumstances, we can apply 'Notional entitlement' where a customer has made a claim in the wrong capacity. However Mrs *****'s overpayment does not meet the criteria for Notional entitlement. Therefore, we are right to ask her to repay the overment."

From what i read over the Internet i thought Notional entitlement was applied as long as you have not gained from the situation, In our case we did not gain anything from claiming as a single person but actually lost money as we would be entitled to more under a joint claim.

I was wondering if anyone can help us and give us some advice. I do apologize for the long post and would be grateful if anyone can help us.

Thanks.

[mohmmad786]

Re: Child Tax Credit Overpayment

I have searched over the internet and i have found some more information.



Notional Offsetting

Sometimes, tax credit claimants who form a couple or who become single, either because they separate or because one partner dies, are slow in reporting the change to HMRC or have been mistaken about the need to report such a change. Yet in many cases, if they had acted promptly they would have continued to be entitled to tax credits, albeit in a different capacity.

Until 18 January 2010, HMRC would recover the whole of any overpayment arising on the old claim, but give no credit for what the claimant would have received had they made a new claim at the right time.

From 18 January 2010, HMRC introduced a new policy whereby tax credits recipients who start to live together, or who become single after being part of a couple, but are late reporting the change to HMRC, can reduce the overpayment on their old claim by whatever they would have been entitled to had they made a new claim promptly.

This new policy applies to overpayments arising from 18 January 2010, but also to overpayments that were still outstanding as of that date. So, if an overpayment has been repaid in full prior to 18 January 2010, the new policy will not apply. However, if any part of it remains unpaid, offsetting can be applied to it.

To request notional offsetting, claimants should contact the tax credit helpline to ask for their case to be referred to the ‘notional offsetting (or notional entitlement)’ team in the Tax Credit Office. If no action is taken, a letter should be sent to CSSG, Tax Credit Office, Preston, PR1 4AT.

Note that the notional offsetting will not cover the one month (previously three months) by which the claimant will be able to backdate their new claim. Normally HMRC will grant the one month backdating automatically, but if that doesn’t happen, the claimant will need to ask for it.

On the whole HMRC policy is to be lenient and not charge a penalty where the failure to report has resulted from a mistake or misunderstanding. If HMRC think the claimant has been negligent in not reporting, and there is a net overpayment even after notional offsetting has been applied, the claimant may be charged a penalty against which there is a right of appeal.

If the failure to report is dishonest (considered by HMRC to be deliberate error), the penalty may well be substantial and in such cases notional offsetting will not be given. A list of what constitutes deliberate error is available in the HMRC compliance manual (CCM10750). The CCM also contains some examples of deliberate error (CCM10755). It is important that advisers challenge any cases where HMRC have classified the case as deliberate error on the basis that they have retrospectively decided, using credit reference data, that the claimant should have made a couple rather than single claim. Unless there is clear evidence that the claimant acted deliberately, then advisers should challenge the decision not to apply notional offsetting particularly if no penalty has been charged.

More information about notional offsetting can be found in the HMRC compliance manual. The manual covers three distinct periods, prior to 17 May 2007, between 17 May 2007 and 18 January 2010 and after 18 January 2010. This is because notional offsetting applied until May 2007 when it was withdrawn. It was reinstated in January 2010 following representations from LITRG and other organisations.

You can find information about couples and repayment of overpayments in our dealing with debt section.

http://www.revenuebenefits.org.uk/ta...ther/#Notional Offsetting

[mohmmad786]

Re: Child Tax Credit Overpayment

Just went on Child Poverty Action Group website in the section of Tax credits: offsetting overpayments.

http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/tax-c...g-overpayments

Example 2

Sophie is working part time and claiming CTC and working tax credit (WTC). On 12 October 2009 she is joined by her partner Charles who is an asylum seeker not entitled to work in the UK. Sophie does not notify the Revenue because it does not affect the amount of tax credits she is entitled to. She is therefore overpaid from 12 October 2009. Following advice from a CAB she notifies the change on 12 April 2010 and makes a new claim jointly with Charles which is backdated to 12 January and wipes out the overpayment from that date. Under the new policy, the outstanding overpayment from 12 October to 12 January is offset against the amount Sophie and Charles would have been entitled to as a couple from 12 October. As this is the same amount she received as a lone parent, she does not have to repay an overpayment.

The only difference between this example and our circumstances is that he was an asylum seeker and i am married to a British woman. GRRRRRR

[mohmmad786]

Re: Child Tax Credit Overpayment

I am sorry to bring this old thread up again but i am still trying to appeal this and was wondering if anyone got any advice for me.
Thanks.

[des8]

Re: Child Tax Credit Overpayment

Have you been through their "DISPUTE" and "APPEALS" procedures?
Have you sent then a "SAR" and traced that phone call where you were told to continue the single mothers claim.
Are you familiar with COP26?
Have you yet asked the adjudicator to look into your complaint: adjudicators@gtnet.gov.uk?
When you've done that refer to your MP asking him to refer it to: Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman

Had to do all this for a daughter a few years back. While it was in dispute they stopped taking back the "overpayment", and after a couple of years fighting they agreed they were wrong and she'd actually been underpaid!

[mohmmad786]

Re: Child Tax Credit Overpayment

Have you been through their "DISPUTE" and "APPEALS" procedures?
Have you sent then a "SAR" and traced that phone call where you were told to continue the single mothers claim.
Are you familiar with COP26?
Have you yet asked the adjudicator to look into your complaint: adjudicators@gtnet.gov.uk?
When you've done that refer to your MP asking him to refer it to: Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman

Had to do all this for a daughter a few years back. While it was in dispute they stopped taking back the "overpayment", and after a couple of years fighting they agreed they were wrong and she'd actually been underpaid!

I just came off the phone to tax credit. The lady over the phone seemed nice but she said that tax credit has done everything they could from there side about the appeal and dispute and there is nothing they can do but to pursue my wife for the money so i think all the dispute and appeal procedures have been done.

Sorry i dont know what "SAR" is and no i havent done it. I would try and get it done tommorrow.

I was also looking at the adjudicator but i wasnt sure if i could take tax credit to them as the woman on the phone said that the only option for me is to involve a professional body like MP. I actually asked my MP in the very begining and they sent letter to tax credit but didnt take any further.

I actually asked someone to help me with a letter to send to tax credit. We sent the letter but i am taking as i sent it myself and it didnt went through CAB or MP, the tax credits didnt bother replying to it or anything inside the letter. I will copy and paste the letter to give you guys a better idea.

Please find enclosed my completed TC846 form to dispute the tax credit overpayment of £2,271.87 for the period 31 October 2011 to 25 January 2012.


During the period in question my spouse had made a single person claim for tax credit on the advice of a HMRC customer support operator at your call centre. The HMRC operator told my spouse to claim as a single person because I had not received a national insurance number. Unfortunately, the operator erred as Regulation 14 of The Tax Credits (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2009, allows for situations in a couple claim for only one NI number to be required when one member of that couple are subject to immigration control. This is further outlined in the HMRC tax credits technical manual - TCTM06100 - Claims and Notification: Making a claim. The operator should have advised my spouse to claim as a couple and just state one NI number (her own). Following further correspondence the claim was suspended and a new couple claim was made, thus, an overpayment demand was sent by you. Due to the official error of the operator an overpayment has arisen and therefore, this overpayment should be cancelled.


Furthermore, I wish to draw your attention to notional entitlement and offsetting, from 18 January 2010, HMRC introduced a new policy whereby tax credits recipients who start to live together, or who become single after being part of a couple, but are late reporting the change to HMRC, can reduce the overpayment on their old claim by whatever they would have been entitled to had they made a new claim promptly. Given that the overpayment was for a short period and the claim was promptly suspended, any overpayment should have been offset from what we would have been entitled to as a couple. This again was not done.
Moreover, I would like to inform you that I am a carer for my severely disabled son and this situation is adding undue pressure and stress on the whole family. I would also like to inform you that my spouse suffers from mental health issues and this is adding unnecessary pressure on her and causing her anxiety to increase. This is supported by the GP letter enclosed as evidence.


Lastly, I would like you to also consider the very limited income that we have, I am unable to work due to caring for my son and wife and our income is limited to £363.85 therefore, there is no realistic prospect of us being able to repay any overpayment and given the hardship it should be written off.
I have displayed four good reasons why the overpayment should be cancelled and wish for you to consider them carefully and retract the overpayment promptly. If this is not done I will have no option but to seek help from my MP and contact the Local Government Ombudsman.


Yours faithfully

[des8]

Re: Child Tax Credit Overpayment

From now on DO NOT SPEAK to tax people.
Everything should be in writing, sent "signed for"
An SAR is a request for all the information they hold on you.
The COP26 is their code of practice, which they are good at not following.
We obtained a lot of help from; http://www.taxcc.org/index.html.
The section "How to dispute an overpayment" guided us through the system

[mohmmad786]

Re: Child Tax Credit Overpayment

Thankyou very very much des8. I have looked at the site and it is very helping. I will send the SAR request tomorrow and wait for them to reply. I will try and look for the tips on the website as well as i am not sure where i stand when it comes to my dispute or appeal.
Thanks alot.

[des8]

Re: Child Tax Credit Overpayment

You're welcome

[mohmmad786]

Re: Child Tax Credit Overpayment

Sorry to bring this old thread back. In short the tax credit have declined everything. I have approached the mp before but they said that they never advised my wife to claim as a single. I approached CAB last year in september, the person dealing with the case said that as we have got no proof, the only thing we can try and ask is for the debt to be written off on the grounds of hardship. They still havent replied to cab.


In the mean time i applied for subject access request, the CD for the phone calls didnt work so i have applied for another subject access request asking for more papers and a working cd as the old request was around 4 months back. I have asked for all the paper communication as last time i only asked for the things on there computer and the calls.


I received a letter from tax credits yesterday saying that they will start deducting £25 from the money we receive. The good thing is that i would not get any letters from debt collection agencies.


Now comes the difficult part, I checked the dates of the call on SAR and on the letter tax credit replied to the MP, they don't match. I have also gone through all the paperwork they sent me and found some screenshots which i feel are very important. I would try and write them in date order.


AP1 = My Wife
AP2 = Me


03/05/2007 MR M N***M = REJECTED


22/06/2007 MR M N***M = REJECTED


20/07/2007 AT ap1 called not happy as award ended due to ap1 advising had a partner ap1 put in another claim with full details but advised me ap2 is not entitled to public funds i advised ap1 who stated she already advised previous advice yet still............


25/07/2007 AT-advised applicant until ap2 gets his nino claim wont get put through-advised to contact person who is dealing with nino allocation-and let us know-advised as per guidance - If the customer is part of a couple they should make a joint claim.


27/07/2007 AT-TL call back re application. Explained until NINO allocated or Ap2 visa issued joint claim would not go through. AP2 may leave the country and AP1 could then put in single claim. TJ


07/08/2007 at - advised app on backdating and that once application is processed will establish then if needs to be backdated further as last payment made on single claim was in June, 2007.




The most important part is 27/07/2007 where you can read that its tax credit who are advising and not my wife telling them on the system. I have tried looking for the old rules for tax credits which would have applied to us in 2007 but could not find them and what i found went over my head as i could not understand it. If anyone could help me with the rules and guide PLEASE. Tax credit has also denied that they have not told my wife to claim as a single person while we are living together but the screenshot of 27/07/2007 is saying different and later my wife actually made a claim that i have left the country in 2007.


Now i was wondering if i can take this case to the adjudicator and would they take this case? and do you think i got any chance of winning this case?


Thanks.

[mohmmad786]

Re: Child Tax Credit Overpayment

Sorry i forgot to mention this in my previous post but i have also found the 2007 letter(not the front part) from job centre where i had an appointment with the job centre for the NI number which was declined at that time.