How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

[Hostas]

I've had a bailiff for 5 days now (one visit, a few calls) - says he has a Magistrates Court warrant, apparently over a vehicle charge from early 2010. I've asked 5 times now for details - I don't know the date, the offence, the fine, the Court - nothing. He's always busy, or there's no signal to his ipad, or he'll check tomorrow, or he'll ring back... but so far, I don't have a clue what this money he's asking for is for.

I've asked the DVLA and they say there is a fine, but although I've asked them again, they also haven't told me the date, the offence, the amount of the fine, which Court - nothing!

I've speculatively emailed Westminster Magistrates Court to ask if they would have any record, since that's the nearest one to where I used to live in early 2010 - but does anyone know any other way of finding out if there is a warrant, and which Court issued it?

Really grateful for any advice!

[ploddertom]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

If it is DVLA it is usually Swansea. Ask him for a copy of the warrant.

[Hostas]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

Hah! I asked on Friday, on Saturday (gave him Sunday off), on Monday, and today. Today he's stopped answering his 'phone to me... I've just emailed the company (Collectica) as well, but if there's some company policy about not showing warrants if you can avoid it, I doubt they'll help either. Why would he not want to?

I'll try Swansea, thank you!

(I like your dog).

[bluebottle]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

Collectica are sods for non-compliance with the law. Period. If you ask to see a copy of the Distress Warrant, they are obliged to show it to you. Do not accept any DIY Distress Warrant they may try and fob you off with. These are forgeries and to the best of my knowledge and belief, not worth the paper they are printed on.

Which county are you in, please? You may have to escalate this to the HMCTS Senior Enforcement Manager for your local area as the Distress Warrant may well have been transferred from one HMCTS area to another.

[ploddertom]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

I asked about the warrant as the chances are it was directed at your old address. If so and you have no knowledge then you ask to make a Stutory Declaration to this effect and it winds everything back and gets rid of the Bailiff. If it is Swansea Court and this is a good way from where you live you should be allowed to make the stat Dec at a Court near to you.

[Hostas]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

I'm in Cumbria now, was in London. Chances are it was - I wasn't quick off the mark to change my driving licence - some googling tells me this is a payable fine too, which I'm happy to pay if someone just tells me what's going on. Can I still make a stat. dec. even if it's my own fault for not updating my driving licence quickly enough?

How do I know what's a forgery and what isn't? Should it be on official Magistrates Court paper? What would it look like? Surely Magistrates Courts don't have 'jurisdiction' in the sense of moving between Counties?

Sorry! Just realised that's a thousand questions... One last one - what has the bailiff to gain by not showing me? If they've no real warrant then they won't get anywhere anyway - if they DO have a genuine one, surely it would be better for them to wave it at me so I cave in quicker. So what's the gain for them? <confused face>

[bizzybob]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

The bailiff is hoping you will just pay up, try the Stat Dec route, and he goes away.

[bluebottle]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

I'm in Cumbria now, was in London. Chances are it was - I wasn't quick off the mark to change my driving licence - some googling tells me this is a payable fine too, which I'm happy to pay if someone just tells me what's going on. Can I still make a stat. dec. even if it's my own fault for not updating my driving licence quickly enough?

How do I know what's a forgery and what isn't? Should it be on official Magistrates Court paper? What would it look like? Surely Magistrates Courts don't have 'jurisdiction' in the sense of moving between Counties?

Sorry! Just realised that's a thousand questions... One last one - what has the bailiff to gain by not showing me? If they've no real warrant then they won't get anywhere anyway - if they DO have a genuine one, surely it would be better for them to wave it at me so I cave in quicker. So what's the gain for them? <confused face>

If you do not know anything about a court hearing or the fine, then DVLA are on a sticky wicket. If they didn't tell you, originally, then you should apply to the court to swear a Statutory Declaration and have the conviction set aside (cancelled).

There has been a spate of cases where peeps have known nothing about any court hearing and it is strongly suspected that DVLA, Capita/TV Licensing, etc., are not informing peeps in order that their questionable or non-existent evidence is not challenged in an open court. In Capita/TVL's case, they are paid by results and it is not unreasonable to say that corporate pressures and hunger for profits is driving this. A number of Capita employees have been jailed for Perverting the Course of Justice as a result.

A genuine Magistrates Court Distress Warrant should look like the one I have attached to this post. The other one is an example of the DIY - and dodgy - Distress Warrants that are floating around. As you will see, the conditions applicable to the genuine warrant do not appear on the DIY warrant and the Clerk of the Court's name does not appear (These have been redacted on the example.) either.

The reason bailiffs acting for HMCTS use the DIY warrants is to mislead debtors and police officers into thinking they have unlimited powers and can do what they like without challenge or restriction.

Does HMCTS know these DIY warrants are being used to hoodwink debtors and police officers? I very much doubt it.

In answer to your question about the jurisdiction of MC Distress Warrants, they can be executed anywhere in England and Wales. However, if the bailiff finds the debtor named on the warrant has moved home, they must inform the court. Many don't and there have been cases where innocent people have been seriously assaulted by bailiffs or had their goods unlawfully seized. The bailiff's motivation is to maximise the amount of money he and his company can make out of you, regardless of whether this is done legitimately or not.

[Hostas]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

Good grief, that fake cannot surely have been lifted from a court document. SURELY. I refuse to believe any Court would print such uneducated, illiterate nonsense. Right, so, any warrant should have a little picture of the Court whatsit on it, a proper name, conditions of use, and not spend almost half it's available space detailing all the costs the bailiffs might charge you with.

Update - I went to see CAB at lunchtime. Unfortunately the lady didn't really know anything, and just logged on to the advice website and read bits out to me. She then advised I just pay the whole thing regardless of not knowing if it was a scam or not and find out afterwards what it's about, claiming the money back if it subsequently turns out to be dodgy. I genuinely think that is the worst advice I have ever received in my adult life.

Swansea MC emailed back to say they had absolutely nothing on record. Westminster haven't got back to me yet, though I've tried 'phoning as well today. I emailed Collectica the company yesterday as well, asking what it was about, and they just sent an email back saying they'd be in touch in about ten days or so.

I left the B. a message yesterday when he wouldn't answer the 'phone, and he left a message for me in return during the day today. Apparently 'it' (he didn't say whether it was the offence or the court or what) is from 4/2/2010. He also said to 'phone him back this evening, but surprise surprise he's not answering his 'phone. I have left another message asking what the offence is/what the warrant is for).

So then I thought I'd 'phone 101. Surely if I have a criminal conviction for a vehicle related offence/trip to Court, then the police will have a record - and I wanted to know if he could break in/if they could stop him/if they could find out why this was happening. The lovely police were aghast that he refused to show me any proof and were ADAMANT that I shouldn't pay until he does. So that's a huge relief - I now have the police to quote at him. They also said if I pop in to the local police station tomorrow with some ID they'll check their national records to see if anything is on there. Which reminded me, I had to have a CRB check for work just a few months ago and there was nothing on that - though not sure if vehicle offences would come up, come to think of it...

So I'm back to thinking it might be either a late renewal of car tax, or a parking fine, or maybe even the congestion charge. Because if he means the offence was the 4/2/2010, well I moved house on the 14/2/2010, so any original letters will have gone to the wrong address. If it took me some months to update my details, and then the DVLA some months to update their details, I suppose it's entirely possible that the whole thing might have got to Court stage while we were all still fannying about with the paperwork. That's my current theory, anyhow.

God I hope tomorrow brings a bit of information my way.

[enquirer]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

I've just emailed the company (Collectica) as well ...

Conduct your correspondence in writing.

Why would he not want to?

It may not exist.

[enquirer]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

A number of Capita employees have been jailed for Perverting the Course of Justice as a result.

Do you have any sources? My Capita file has quite a few entries already, but more are always welcome.

[bluebottle]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

Well, at least you have the local police on your side and it is good they are beginning to wake up to just how corrupt the civil enforcement industry is. Print off the two warrants I posted and show them to the police. If a Marston bailiff turns up at a police station in your area, waving a Mickey Mouse warrant around, no prizes for guessing what sort of response they will get. Having a Size 11 police boot inserted into your anal orifice as you are removed from the police station is a painful experience, doubly so if you land on your arse on the pavement outside. Alternatively, they could show the bailiff through to the custody suite for a "meaningful chat" with the Custody Officer (Sergeant) or Duty Officer (Inspector).

[bluebottle]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

Do you have any sources? My Capita file has quite a few entries already, but more are always welcome.

I have gleaned this from posts on LB. I have no reason to doubt the veracity of what was posted. Have a look on YouTube for video evidence of just how Capita employees, working on behalf of TVL behave, including running away when they are confronted by a camera or engaging in Lower Gastro-Intestinal Ventriloquism (moving their mouth whilst speaking out of their anus.)

[bluebottle]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

Good grief, that fake cannot surely have been lifted from a court document. SURELY. I refuse to believe any Court would print such uneducated, illiterate nonsense. Right, so, any warrant should have a little picture of the Court whatsit on it, a proper name, conditions of use, and not spend almost half it's available space detailing all the costs the bailiffs might charge you with. The Mickey Mouse warrant appears to be intended to mislead the debtor and the police as to the bailiff's powers and what they can and cannot take. I would not mind betting that if HMCTS rule such warrants have no legal weight, I can see Marston being forced to pay serious compensation or having to recover illegally-seized goods and vehicles and return them to the debtors they took them from.

Update - I went to see CAB at lunchtime. Unfortunately the lady didn't really know anything, and just logged on to the advice website and read bits out to me. She then advised I just pay the whole thing regardless of not knowing if it was a scam or not and find out afterwards what it's about, claiming the money back if it subsequently turns out to be dodgy. I genuinely think that is the worst advice I have ever received in my adult life. Some CAB are a waste of time and are about as competent as Inspector Clouseau.

Swansea MC emailed back to say they had absolutely nothing on record. Westminster haven't got back to me yet, though I've tried 'phoning as well today. I emailed Collectica the company yesterday as well, asking what it was about, and they just sent an email back saying they'd be in touch in about ten days or so. No . They give you a straight answer straight away - not in 10 days time.

I left the B******. a message yesterday when he wouldn't answer the 'phone, and he left a message for me in return during the day today. Apparently 'it' (he didn't say whether it was the offence or the court or what) is from 4/2/2010. He also said to 'phone him back this evening, but surprise surprise he's not answering his 'phone. I have left another message asking what the offence is/what the warrant is for).

So then I thought I'd 'phone 101. Surely if I have a criminal conviction for a vehicle related offence/trip to Court, then the police will have a record - and I wanted to know if he could break in/if they could stop him/if they could find out why this was happening. The lovely police were aghast that he refused to show me any proof and were ADAMANT that I shouldn't pay until he does. So that's a huge relief - I now have the police to quote at him. They also said if I pop in to the local police station tomorrow with some ID they'll check their national records to see if anything is on there. Which reminded me, I had to have a CRB check for work just a few months ago and there was nothing on that - though not sure if vehicle offences would come up, come to think of it... Absolutely correct advice from the police. You should NEVER pay anything to a bailiff until they produce proof they have lawful authority to act and collect.

So I'm back to thinking it might be either a late renewal of car tax, or a parking fine, or maybe even the congestion charge. Because if he means the offence was the 4/2/2010, well I moved house on the 14/2/2010, so any original letters will have gone to the wrong address. If it took me some months to update my details, and then the DVLA some months to update their details, I suppose it's entirely possible that the whole thing might have got to Court stage while we were all still fannying about with the paperwork. That's my current theory, anyhow.

God I hope tomorrow brings a bit of information my way.

@@@@

[enquirer]

Re: How to find out which Magistrates Court issued the warrant?

I have gleaned this from posts on LB. I have no reason to doubt the veracity of what was posted.

Agreed.

Offences for which I have found convictions to have been obtained include rape, perverting the course of justice (quite a few of those), false accounting, fraud, and sexual offences against children.

If anyone comes across items in the local press (reports tend not to make it into the nationals), please flag them up.