Civil Enforcement Limited

[sharcase68]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Back in may my husband also got a parking charge from these people after reading on here to ignore the letter we did so ,yet today he got a letter from Debt Recovery Plus ltd saying we had 14 days to pay the fine or they will take us to court,we e mailed them saying we wouldnt be paying as they said we parked at 13:26:23 and left at 14:30:38 yet we still have the parking ticket and it clearly states we parked up at 13:31 and didnt have to leave until 15:31 we payed for 2 hours ,so how can they fine us when we still had time on the parking ticket when we left,we are worried now that they will take us to court,when we e mailed them we got a response saying they will be in touch within 28 days but will try be in touch in 14 days,yet they want the payment by 5 november so how does that work

[wales01man]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

If you have a valid ticket they have no case?
Or am I wrong?

[bluebottle]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Looking at the more recent cases in this thread, it occurs to me that there are grounds for Trading Standards to investigate CEL. Demanding money for an alleged infringement that never took place is a total no-no. The company and its management could be in serious trouble if they try to enforce a speculative invoice for something they are most likely to be unable to substantiate.

Making an unwarranted demand is serious enough, but when such a demand is accompanied by threats, immaterial of what the demands are, the law takes a very serious view of such actions.

In addition to reporting CEL to Trading Standards, I would also be inclined to report Debt Recovery Plus to OFT's Credit Fitness Team. This is the team within the OFT that licenses debt collection agencies.

[bluebottle]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

If you have a valid ticket they have no case?
Or am I wrong?

No. You're not wrong, Wales. If the OP has a valid ticket, the PPC has no case and, consequentially, no cause of action. In my honest opinion, CEL is seriously playing with fire if they are attempting to demand money for something that did not happen. Nice try, but they are treading on dangerous ground, in the legal sense.

[mystery1]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Back in may my husband also got a parking charge from these people after reading on here to ignore the letter we did so ,yet today he got a letter from Debt Recovery Plus ltd saying we had 14 days to pay the fine or they will take us to court,we e mailed them saying we wouldnt be paying as they said we parked at 13:26:23 and left at 14:30:38 yet we still have the parking ticket and it clearly states we parked up at 13:31 and didnt have to leave until 15:31 we payed for 2 hours ,so how can they fine us when we still had time on the parking ticket when we left,we are worried now that they will take us to court,when we e mailed them we got a response saying they will be in touch within 28 days but will try be in touch in 14 days,yet they want the payment by 5 november so how does that work

Email a copy of the ticket too them. Also guard the ticket carefully.

2 points.

1. If you get a letter before claim do not ignore. Come back for advice.
2. Telling them now, and later when you get the LBC, makes their behaviour unreasonable. http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...s/part27#27.14 "(g) such further costs as the court may assess by the summary procedure and order to be paid by a party who has behaved unreasonably"

They really are farting against thunder here. In fact you could always tell them that their constant contact, if continued in face of the ticket, will be construedas harassment and you will counterclaim for it. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...arassment.html http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/882.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/h...s-6878749.html http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/46.html

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/982.html

M1

[sharcase68]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Email a copy of the ticket too them. Also guard the ticket carefully.

2 points.

1. If you get a letter before claim do not ignore. Come back for advice.
2. Telling them now, and later when you get the LBC, makes their behaviour unreasonable. http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...s/part27#27.14 "(g) such further costs as the court may assess by the summary procedure and order to be paid by a party who has behaved unreasonably"

They really are farting against thunder here. In fact you could always tell them that their constant contact, if continued in face of the ticket, will be construedas harassment and you will counterclaim for it. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...arassment.html http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/882.html

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/h...s-6878749.html http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/46.html

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2013/982.html

M1

we have sent a copy of the ticket to them what do you mean by if we get letter before claim and what does LBC mean sorry for being thick but not used to dealing with things like this

[mystery1]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

we have sent a copy of the ticket to them what do you mean by if we get letter before claim and what does LBC mean sorry for being thick but not used to dealing with things like this

Letter before claim = LBC = precursor to court action.

If things are as you say it really is nothing to worry about and even if you're wrong a claim doesn't mean they'll go to court (they've abandoned quite a few before they went in front of a judge).

M1

[sharcase68]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

ok thankyou will come back for advice if we get another letter

[sharcase68]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

After sending a copy of the parking ticket showing we were right to the debt agency we received a letter today from CEL saying the parking notice has now been cancelled,nothing else no appology or anything just one line lol, Thank you everyone for your help along the way with this problem.

[labman]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Excellent - another one bites the dust!

Well done for sticking to your guns.

[bluebottle]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

I hope CEL learn from this case, but will they? No. They'll probably keep doing it until someone turns round and tears them to shreds in the legal sense. Perhaps, then, the politicians might realise the private parking industry is simply the wheel-clamping industry under another guise and close them down. The alternative is for forums, such as LB and Pepipoo, to advise motorists how to deal with them and make it so uneconomic for PPCs to continue in business, they fold.

Well done, Sharcase, for hanging on in there to the bitter end and getting the right result.

[VinceSamios]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Another bitter ender here - They withdraw at the steps of the court... I actually pleaded with the court to hold the hearing anyway, unfortunately they declined. If anyone would like to fund a counter-claim I'm happy to do it for the sake of the population.

First I petitioned to have the case moved to my local court which is extremely easy as I'm a person against a company, which probably shit them up quite a bit. I then agreed to mediation and basically told them I was going to counter claim, and the only settlement option was for them to withdraw immediately. Basically fighting fire with fire. They declined. I then heard nothing for a very long time, until they withdraw on the 5th of november with the hearing scheduled for the 13th.

This is just bully tactics through and through.

Here is the defence I filed verbatim - I hope it helps someone in a similar position find the confidence to fight these bullying a-holes. The case reference is there if you want to do any digging. Also if Civil Enforcement Ltd are reading this, I'm happy to go another round if you'd like. I think it's also worth mentioning in a worst case scenario the judge might order you to pay the £30 fine, but not the uplifted fines, because you never agreed to the uplifted fines when you parked where you parked.

My Defence:
http://vsamios.co.uk/Defence.pdf

[labman]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Another bitter ender here - They withdraw at the steps of the court... I actually pleaded with the court to hold the hearing anyway, unfortunately they declined. If anyone would like to fund a counter-claim I'm happy to do it for the sake of the population.

First I petitioned to have the case moved to my local court which is extremely easy as I'm a person against a company, which probably shit them up quite a bit. I then agreed to mediation and basically told them I was going to counter claim, and the only settlement option was for them to withdraw immediately. Basically fighting fire with fire. They declined. I then heard nothing for a very long time, until they withdraw on the 5th of november with the hearing scheduled for the 13th.

This is just bully tactics through and through.

Here is the defence I filed verbatim - I hope it helps someone in a similar position find the confidence to fight these bullying a-holes. The case reference is there if you want to do any digging. Also if Civil Enforcement Ltd are reading this, I'm happy to go another round if you'd like. I think it's also worth mentioning in a worst case scenario the judge might order you to pay the £30 fine, but not the uplifted fines, because you never agreed to the uplifted fines when you parked where you parked.

My Defence:
http://vsamios.co.uk/Defence.pdf

I'm pleased they didn't go ahead with court action for your sake - well done in sticking to your guns. FWIW I would let things rest now and wouldn't issue a counter claim. I'd leave that for someone who has the money to do it, as their cases fail in court on their lack of being able to prove a genuine pre-estimate of loss, and a counter claim would, IMO, be unlikely to get far.

It is a real shame you were not able to post anything on Legal Beagles until the day before you were due in court, as I believe, for those that approach us early enough, we still have 100% record in successful appeals and getting things dropped before they go to court.

[VinceSamios]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Labman I was reading legal beagles throughout the process and to be fair I think CEL were trying to change their public perception at the time they issued the case, because they were known to be all bark and no bite (someone revealed they'd only ever actually issued 51 court cases). The kinds of letters they were sending were hilarious (£600 barrister fees.... for a small claims matter, lol) and I knew they would walk away at the last minute. I'm quite satisfied with how I dealt with it because to a certain extent I wanted them to hurt.

[labman]

Re: Civil Enforcement Limited

Labman I was reading legal beagles throughout the process and to be fair I think CEL were trying to change their public perception at the time they issued the case, because they were known to be all bark and no bite (someone revealed they'd only ever actually issued 51 court cases). The kinds of letters they were sending were hilarious (£600 barrister fees.... for a small claims matter, lol) and I knew they would walk away at the last minute. I'm quite satisfied with how I dealt with it because to a certain extent I wanted them to hurt.

That is crazy - I'm genuinely pleased you 'got one over on them'.

What confuses me slightly is why they would have turned down your POPLA appeal, but it is of no consequence now as you won the day and left them with egg on their faces!