Company withholding payment - freelance issue

[MissFM]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

Yes, but you more likely have a clue than anyone else! For example if I, as a painter, am commissioned to do something - even though I am paid for it - the copyright stays with me (took me a long time to learn this lol but it's apparently legally true). I can sell or licence the work for reproduction (unless it's a portrait, where the rules are different) - but the copyright is still mine - does this not apply to website design? Sorry to be a pain but do think it's extremely unjust to the OP that the world and his wife are profitting from his work and he's not even been paid - he must have some redress surely?

[CleverClogs]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

Let's look at this as a question of assignment, as it is unlikely that the copyright of the website would have been licensed to the (defunct) company that commissioned it. It is much more likely that the work as a whole would have been assigned absolutely, although it is possible that some elements that could be used on other sites might merely have been licensed.

If something is to be assigned absolutely in exchange for money or other valuable consideration and that consideration has not been paid, has the assignment occurred or has the contract failed?

If the contract has failed, doesn't that mean the thing to be assigned remains the property of the would-be assignor?

[Eloise01]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

Yes, but you more likely have a clue than anyone else! For example if I, as a painter, am commissioned to do something - even though I am paid for it - the copyright stays with me (took me a long time to learn this lol but it's apparently legally true). I can sell or licence the work for reproduction (unless it's a portrait, where the rules are different) - but the copyright is still mine - does this not apply to website design? Sorry to be a pain but do think it's extremely unjust to the OP that the world and his wife are profitting from his work and he's not even been paid - he must have some redress surely?

Sorry, but do you have any idea how many people ask me about parking fines or their nephews drugs charges? Not a clue!

Copyright is an entire specialism in law. But it does not exist simply because you create something. It just isn't that easy. I really wish I could help. But this is a situation of insufficient detail and insufficient expertise.

[wales01man]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

Being a mere mortal i have been following this thread and am now bemused its turning to talk of copyright/taking down websites and other ideas might i suggest as there is 10 grand at stake and no chance of getting back from the company owing the mone as they dont exist that the OP spends a couple of hundred quid with a solicitor to find exactly what the legal position is regarding what action if any he can take,just a thought but maybe wiser than trying something the outcome is unknown

[CleverClogs]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

the amount they owed me (Ł2500+VAT) ... the Ł2500 owed... the Ł2500 owed.

Being a mere mortal i have been following this thread and am now bemused its turning to talk of copyright/taking down websites and other ideas might i suggest as there is 10 grand at stake

Eh?

Try these:

[Eloise01]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

Take down someone elses website and you face criminal charges and being sued for damages. Add your legal fees to that and Ł10k is conservative, not even beginning with personal losses. I'd double it.

[wales01man]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

Very funny cleverclogs my mistake i guess your perfect then i could post up my thoughts of you but theres children about still foor near 3 grand a couple of hundred might seem a good idea or do uyou offer any other advice 100 percent guaranteed to get the guy his money back?

[MissFM]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

Being a mere mortal i have been following this thread and am now bemused its turning to talk of copyright/taking down websites and other ideas might i suggest as there is 10 grand at stake and no chance of getting back from the company owing the mone as they dont exist that the OP spends a couple of hundred quid with a solicitor to find exactly what the legal position is regarding what action if any he can take,just a thought but maybe wiser than trying something the outcome is unknown

Wise words Wales - but it is probably about intellectual property not just company law ( and Eloise is so right IMHO about the need for a sledgehammer there). We have a cats' cradle - if even Eloise can't untangle it. You are right - a lawyer aware of copyright, company and contract law would likely be the answer.

[MissFM]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

"Creating something does not give you copyright automatically. "

I'm getting worried now, because I understood that it did and does, unless you are (for example) in someone's employ and have signed it away as part of your employment contract. I know you have said that the fact that the OP did it "for someone else" makes this irrelevant, the fact that he is freelance must change that?

What a minefield!

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

Speaking of non payment for web design services, a friend of mine and his wife commissioned me to do a site in 2009, I've never been paid a penny, the idea of taking the site down has crossed my mind, no third parties involved here. They live abroad but that's not the issue, I went to see them last year and they treated me well but no cash at all! The debt is just a couple of years from SBd!

[Eloise01]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

It isn't an "even". I'm a lawyer not God! My area is employment law. That means I've got a good knowledge of company law, because companies employ people. I understand company law and I've explained that. But copyright and intellectual property is not my ballpark. But I can spot a criminal offence like taking down a website that isn't yours. Your confidence in me is flattering. But misplaced. Anyone claiming to know all the law is an idiot! With every single fact and all the written contracts it would take me weeks to unravel because I would have to check statutes and case law from scratch.

[Eloise01]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

"Creating something does not give you copyright automatically. "

I'm getting worried now, because I understood that it did and does, unless you are (for example) in someone's employ and have signed it away as part of your employment contract. I know you have said that the fact that the OP did it "for someone else" makes this irrelevant, the fact that he is freelance must change that?

What a minefield!

No it really isn't that simple. Creating something does not give you copyright. In employment contracts, for example, intellectual copyright often rests with the employer - you are employed to do a job and what you create as a result of your employment belongs to the employer. Contracts for service can be constructed or construed in the same way.

[wales01man]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

Eloise01
i think you hit the nail on the headi tink you saying get legal advice which is my idea
Beside that that you for all the posts you put on here its so educational and interesting to read opinion of someone in the know and you dont beat about the bush

[MissFM]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

aaaarrrggghhhh!!:eek2: Too much for my tiny brain - but big thanks Eloise!xx

[Eloise01]

Re: Company withholding payment - freelance issue

aaaarrrggghhhh!!:eek2: Thanks Eloise!xx

Believe me I know! I think we have discussed previously that my brother actually knows more about copyright than I do - but even his knowledge is strictly limited to his area of work (which isn't law!). In our previous debate on this it was music. That he knows. The best I can do on this, unfortunately, is to know that "breaking into someones website, even with a key" is a serious criminal and civil offence.

As an aside, my very close friend painted me four paintings as a gift. She signed them. She isn't famous or anything (though I think she's great and ought to be). I had to have them appraised for insurance because they are original works of art. The appraiser told me that because they were given to me unconditionally, I own the copyright (which affects insurance values).