Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

[FlamingParrot]

Having seen the post below, I must say I'm surprised to hear that a CCA request can acknowledge the debt! The implications of that being true are very serious for people who may wish to send a s.78/79 request after not paying or acknowledging for years, as a way to check the enforceability of the debt and/or stave off legal action. It has always been my understanding that such a request does not acknowledge the debt! :noidea:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...348#post312348

A request made under section 77 (link) or section 78 (link) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 certainly could be taken as acknowledging the alleged debt but, if the alleged debt is already statute barred (section 5 - link - of the Limitation Act 1980) then it remains barred regardless of what untruths the debt collecting drones might tell one:

I sent my CCA requests 3 years ago, right after defaulting. The templates I got at the time started with the words "I do not acknowledge any debt to your company" or something along those lines, however, I've seen other, widely used templates, that do not have that wording anywhere. People who have asked the same question have always been told a CCA request doesn't acknowledge the debt.

Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the SBd clock under certain circumstances? Can that be avoided by the inclusion of the wording noted above?

[Curlyben]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

Short and sweet here, NO.
Yet more utter Bovine Excrement from the Leeds Loosers.

[jon1965]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

Time to be thick here ( I do it so well)

So cloggy got it wrong?

In summary a CCA request will not reset the SB clock?

[Curlyben]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

The important word here is could not WILL.
The DCA would be hard pushed to prove this in a court of law, even though their missive's may say otherwise..

[gravytrain]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

Personally I would not risk it.

The entitlement to request a copy depends on the applicant being "under an agreement" this would at least imply that he would have a contractual relationship with the creditor.

The purpose of a CCA request is for information purposes only, why on earth would anyone want to get info on an account that they did not posses.

I would send a prove it letter or just ignore.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

Personally I would not risk it.

The entitlement to request a copy depends on the applicant being "under an agreement" this would at least imply that he would have a contractual relationship with the creditor.

The purpose of a CCA request is for information purposes only, why on earth would anyone want to get info on an account that they did not posses.

I would send a prove it letter or just ignore.

I think we all know the answer to this one, the purpose of a CCA request is to see if the creditor is in possession of an agreement in the first place and if so, to find out whether it's enforceable. The argument is not whether such an account exists or whether it's yours, is to find out whether it's enforceable, not whether the debt is yours.

If you receive a fishing letter from a DCA about something you don't recognise then the 'prove it' letter is appropriate. You'd send a CCA request if you wanted to dispute the enforceability of the account.

I sent one to MBNA who wrote back saying they couldn't find it from the start and it has worked well for me because, after the initial flurry of activity, I've only ever heard once from them in the past couple of years, and then only to tell me they would no longer correspond with me about the fact the can't find my agreement. My account was never sold (so far) or passed to an external DCA (other than in-house puppets DCRI early on).

RBS sent me an application form with no terms at all (as noted on another thread) and, after a couple of DCAs, I haven't heard a thing for a year.

The thing is, I sent out my CCA requests at the time I defaulted so I didn't have to worry about resetting the clock.

[gravytrain]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

I think we all know the answer to this one, the purpose of a CCA request is to see if the creditor is in possession of an agreement in the first place and if so, to find out whether it's enforceable. The argument is not whether such an account exists or whether it's yours, is to find out whether it's enforceable, not whether the debt is yours.

Sorry but it most certainly is not. Carey made it clear that the request is for information only, there is no requirement to provide a document which if signed would be an enforceable agreement.

The request is made by the debtor, see definitions, if you make the request I am afraid you are implying at least that you are the debtor.

[gravytrain]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

78-0) The creditor under a regulated agreement for Duty to give
running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiv- information to
ing a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and pay- debtor
under
running- ment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of account
the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document credit
referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on agreement.
behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to
which it is practicable for him to refer,-


Section 189 Definitions

" debtor " means the individual receiving credit under a
consumer credit agreement or the person to whom his
rights and duties under the agreement have passed by
assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a
prospective consumer credit agreement includes the
prospective debtor ;

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

Sorry but it most certainly is not. Carey made it clear that the request is for information only, there is no requirement to provide a document which if signed would be an enforceable agreement.

The request is made by the debtor, see definitions, if you make the request I am afraid you are implying at least that you are the debtor.

I am familiar with Carey and the fact that it's for info purposes is what allows creditors to respond with a recon.

As you know, hundreds of people have been sending out CCA requests and I have yet to see one where it's been argued that there was acknowledgment of the debt by sending out such request. However, the older CCA request templates (such as the ones I used, probably from the Penalty Charges forum), did have a line saying "I do no acknowledge any debt to your company". That line has been dropped from more recent CCA request templates, presumably because it wasn't necessary to have it.

Curlyben said above it wouldn't be the case, he's been running this site for nearly 5 years so he probably hasn't seen any examples of CCA requests being used as acknowledgment of the debt either.

[gravytrain]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

I am familiar with Carey and the fact that it's for info purposes is what allows creditors to respond with a recon.

As you know, hundreds of people have been sending out CCA requests and I have yet to see one where it's been argued that there was acknowledgment of the debt by sending out such request. However, the older CCA request templates (such as the ones I used, probably from the Penalty Charges forum), did have a line saying "I do no acknowledge any debt to your company". That line has been dropped from more recent CCA request templates, presumably because it wasn't necessary to have it.

Curlyben said above it wouldn't be the case, he's been running this site for nearly 5 years so he probably hasn't seen any examples of CCA requests being used as acknowledgment of the debt either.

I have indicated the legislation, the request comes from the debtor, the definition of debtor is as stated, i do not think there can really be any argument unfortunately.

[Curlyben]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

GT, sorry but I think you are slightly confused over the reasoning behind such a request.
While it is informational, and bearing Carey in mind, the DCA would still need a compliant agreement to successfully bring court action.
A recon is NOT good enough..
Fore warned is fore armed.

If you KNOW they are onto a looser then you can play a very different game indeed.
Often, when challenged, DCA's run a mile rather than risk non-compliance.

[gravytrain]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

GT, sorry but I think you are slightly confused over the reasoning behind such a request.
While it is informational, and bearing Carey in mind, the DCA would still need a compliant agreement to successfully bring court action.
A recon is NOT good enough..
Fore warned is fore armed.

If you KNOW they are onto a looser then you can play a very different game indeed.
Often, when challenged, DCA's run a mile rather than risk non-compliance.

I think one of us is Curly.

It would be for the creditor to prove the agreement was not Barred of course but the argument i mention wold be a very good one IMO as I said earlier I would not risk it.

Unless you can say why the legislation does not say what i say it does ?

[jon1965]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

I have indicated the legislation, the request comes from the debtor, the definition of debtor is as stated, i do not think there can really be any argument unfortunately.

I think that you are also forgetting the OFT guidelines on s77-79 which states that
In the
OFT's view, such a request is still one 'from' the debtor or hirer.

So if I employ a DMC and they send off CCA requests are you trying to say that I am admitting the debt?

If you believe the argument that you are putting forward then anyone who advises another person to send a CCA request could be sued for negligence, so that would be all the well known websites out of business.

[Curlyben]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

GT, sorry but I think you are slightly confused over the reasoning behind such a request.
While it is informational, and bearing Carey in mind, the DCA would still need a compliant agreement to successfully bring court action.
A recon is NOT good enough..
Fore warned is fore armed.

If you KNOW they are onto a looser then you can play a very different game indeed.
Often, when challenged, DCA's run a mile rather than risk non-compliance.

I think one of us is Curly.

It would be for the creditor to prove the agreement was not Barred of course but the argument i mention wold be a very good one IMO as I said earlier I would not risk it.

Unless you can say why the legislation does not say what i say it does ?

I wasn't talking about SB'd debts or the OC, but dealing with DCA's here..

There's is little point in a CCA request from an SB'd debt anyways, as already mentioned, once barred it cannot be undone.
I'm referring to current debts that have been passed to a DCA.
In my opinion, if the debt is still with the OC then a "deal" should be struck for affordable repayments.
Once DCA's are involved then the game changes.
Part of the CCA request to a DCA involves the DCA actually demonstrating that they have the lawful rights to make demands and collect on the debt in question.

[gravytrain]

Re: Can a CCA request acknowledge the debt and reset the limitations period?

I think that you are also forgetting the OFT guidelines on s77-79 which states that
In the
OFT's view, such a request is still one 'from' the debtor or hirer.

So if I employ a DMC and they send off CCA requests are you trying to say that I am admitting the debt?

If you believe the argument that you are putting forward then anyone who advises another person to send a CCA request could be sued for negligence, so that would be all the well known websites out of business.

Surely if the OFT guidelines say"from debtor" then it would be logical to think the request came, from, "the debtor" wouldn't it ?

No I am saying that the creditor could argue that the application is an acknowledgment of the debt, as it would have had to come from the debtor and it would be in writing.