a number of issues ref employment

[thaitoon]

i have a number of issues at work that are starting to make me stressed,depressed and i am worried for my future.

I work for the Police as a detective and have done so for over 16 years

My work has been commended many times and i was(am) highly regarded by many senior police officers, i am an expert in a particular work area.

I injured my back doing compulsory defence training during 2010, i took 2 or 3 days off sick before returning to work and have been going through the slow nhs treatment process.

I was placed on temporary restricted duties which lasted over a year as i was severely injured as a result of this but as a result of the failure to complete the defence training i was (wrongly) subjected to unsatisfactory performance protocols (UPP).

I was supported in some degree by my line managers, however the support i got was to go to the gym to lose weight as it was deemed (by them and the defence trainer) to be a reason for my injury in the first place. I am overweight but had passed the compulsory training every year previously with no problems

During 2011, there was pressure on my then senior manager to get me off UPP and temporary restricted duties, i was therefore told to get on and do the defence training again, i wanted reassurance that i was ok to continue with such training
from both my gp and the force dr, however the pressure from above was on so i 'attempted' the training without the all clear due to this pressure and again got injured or aggravated the same injury. i did email both hr and my boss to say i wanted the all clear before the training date but felt heavily pressured into doing the training, fearing the upp process and its consequences.

after this second injury - I was sick for a few days but returned to work again on then still on upp. As a result of my treatment and eventually through the slow medical processes i finally had an MRI scan which showed 'early degenerative disc disease' and damage plus a prolapsed lumbar disc with a tear.

The tact then changed and hr, supervisors and the others seemed to be more sympathetic towards my condition.

I have been suffering in severe pain and discomfort ever since the initial injury with a number of other health problems manifesting themselves as a result of these actions and my injury has left me as being 'disabled' for the purposes of the DDA. the process is slow with the nhs and i am still waiting to be seen by a consultant.

i have waited since spring 2010 for a suitable chair and work station etc as a result of an ergonomic assessment that took my employers over a year to sort out. it was left to me to sort eventually and then for me to send the results to hr for the job to pay as access to work wouldnt pay for it as they said it was reasonable for the job to pay. i am very busy in work and had forgotten to send the papers but hr or my supervisors have never followed the matter of the workstation and chair up, i only remembered the stuff when i found the papers in my drawer today (prompting my post here).

i had to record my injury as an industrial accident myself as hr didnt know the process, i asked them specifically early on in the process and they said it was up to me to do it as hr dont routinely inform the HSE of accidents at work, as a result of the notifications i now receive industrial injuries disablement benefit at the lower tier but now may be increased due to worsening.

i had a few days off sick after picking up my baby and hurting my back during 2012, this caused my then line manager a problem because it fell at the time when i was booked to to do a work related course. upon my return the boss intimated i was not sick and only reported sick so i didnt have to do the course. i was aggrieved by this and tensions started developing between us as i felt he was then out to 'do my legs'
The period is shown on my sick record and not as disability related leave

as a result of the pain and medication, the related stress and the fact i was seeking leave to remain in the uk for my wife who is foreign national with limited english, no driving ability and our baby who is now 2.5 yrs old. My wife relies on me for all of her everyday things such as food shopping, bills, legal documents etc although she gets about with buses and taxis.

My work standards had lowered during this time (early 2012) and i was given a written improvement notice for a trivial matter when others in the office had committed acts of much more severity including on one occasion possible misconduct. it appeared to me that i was being singled out for management scrutiny an attention so i started to keep records of what i percieved to be management failings when others weren't being disciplined or issued with notices for more severe mistakes than mine.

i am in daily pain, sometimes more severe and cannot sleep most nights i get about 4-5 hrs

as a result of my mri scan and HR and the organisation recognising my disability plus in order to get taken off UPP and temporary restricted i was allowed a modified safety training where myself and a few other disabled staff were put through the course at a much reduced intensity. i passed and the temporary restricted staus was removed for a year. HR expected me to have had an operation by July this year and so lifted the restriction.

I will never fully do this defence course i am disabled and i believe they have left me alone as i have taken very little in the way of sick leave or disability leave but remain in constant pain which is worseneing by the day.

I believe that i have been treated poorly, my disability was not taken seriously, it has been poorly managed and i was subjected to bullying in order to massage the figures and get me off 'the sick list' as a direct result my injury and disability worsened

Can i claim for damages for (a) personal injury due to being pressured into the 2nd course during 2011 and then becoming injured again from exactly the same exercise that caused the original disablement? (b) Disability discrimination by virtue of the failure to provide reasonable adjustments? (c) damages to feelings due to the extra management scrutiny i feel i was put under?

As part of my recording of issues in the workplace and my perceived management failings i had an instance where following a busy couple of weeks the 2 supervisors took the same day off. I requested special leave for that day (albeit a little late) in order to support my wife during the day prior to and then the attendance at her appointment for application for indefinate leave to remain in the UK my wife was very worried about this appointment and needed help with our son in order that she concentrate during the time before the appointment in case of any difficult questions were asked of her.
Another colleague also requested the day off to attend a hearing in support of his daughters boyfriend over custody issues (non blood realted to my colleague).

Both my supervisors (immediate and line manager) refused both of our days off stating that they needed to have their time off due to not having a weekend off in 2 weeks previous.

My line manager however granted me the time to attend at the appointment with my wife at the appropriate time. I very reluctantly accepted this although the other colleague who is argumentative and aggressive said to the immediate supervisor in an aggressive manner that if he couldnt have the day off he would go sick. He was not challenged as to his comment as far as i know. it was left that neither of us could take the day off although we could attend at the appointments.

The day of my wifes ILR appointment came, i was in work and there was no sign of my colleague at work, i asked where he was and the others in the office could not tell me. Both my supervisors were off taking their owed days. There have been times when the office cover was low often only one person to keep on top of our work which although very busy is often slow time investigations. My wifes big day had come, she was worried and nervous all day, she had no support from me that morning, having to struggle with a 2 year old on the bus to get to the immigration office. i met her there taking a few hours off and we got through the interview.

There was no mention of my colleague not attending work that day, no investigation as to where he was, the time of his appointments or anything, the supervisor and line manager knew he hadnt attended although i never made a fuss or complaint about it at that time.

Have i been a victim of indirect racial discrimination? in that i was not afforded time off to support my wife who is an ethnic minority, non english speaker/reader with a very important appointment, whereas the supervisors not disciplining my colleague over his comments, his non attendance and the lack of investigation into his very serious misconduct was not conducted.

I have kept records of these occurrences, my supervisors were aware of the records as were my colleagues as never kept them a secret.

as a result i was brought in front of the departmental head to account for my actions in recording the management failings. i was asked if i wished to pursue the matters recorded formally during this meeting which was minuted and questions and answers recorded by a supervisor of a different team, i was not afforded the opportunity to have a 'friend' or federation rep with me during this interrogation over my record keeping. I felt put on the spot and declined during this meeting to take matters further stating that my actions were borne our of frustration and were for my own use. I was scared of being disciplined by the dept head, a police superintendent.

Also during the same meeting i was asked about an occasion where following an argument with a temporary supervisor who was covering for leave i verbally abused him, he is the same rank as me and was exerting the temporary power on the day of the argument so i did call him a derogatory name, however this was dealt with between us and forgotten as there are often arguments like this in our office. The dept head gave me a verbal warning and wanted the matter dealt with by means of an entry in my employee review record and a diversity course.

Again i feel that i have been treated unfairly, that dept head has since retired. I felt bullied and pressured into declining to take the recorded supervision and discrimination matters further, i feel alone and dont know how to deal with these things any more.

With the pain, coping with the disability,my health problems and my family life i am depressed, stressed and dont know where to turn.

During this time our deparetment went form having 8 detectives to 4 as they never replaced retirees and those who moved on, howver we werestill made to do the same work of 8.

a long post i am sorry but i felt i need o give the whole background to the issues i face

thanks for taking the time

thaitoon

[FlamingParrot]

Re: a number of issues ref employment

There are many issues at play here and you could really do with some legal advice. Your situation is too complex for your average CAB to be able to advise properly. When it comes to employment issues, a few colleagues and I have received a lot of help over the past 10 years or so, from this place ---> http://www.toynbeehall.org.uk

That particular advice centre is located in Central London, which may not be convenient for you. There are Law Centres with similar functions around the country, see here ---> www.lawcentres.org.uk/i-am-looking-for-advice

Normally the first step would be raising a grievance, don't know if you did so at any stage, but you may want to look at this from ACAS ---> http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1670

[Eloise01]

Re: a number of issues ref employment

There are no two ways about it - this requires the attention of a specialist lawyer, and preferably from the Police Federation if you are a member. There is utterly no way that anyone, no matter how experienced they are, could offer you advice on the basis of a synopsis on a website. Although the police are subject to the provisions of the Equality Act 2010 (the DDA was repealed!), the Police are not subject to employment laws generally in the same way as others are - they are office holders and not employees. The context in which they work, and the tests of what may or may not be reasonable are entirely different than they would be for for non-Police officers, because nobody else works within what is a uniformed service with its own demands and expectations. This is something that requires an intricate knowledge of police operation - and there are lawyers who specialise their entire services and careers on just this one area of work, so it isn't something that I would suggest consulting anyone other than a specialist in this this area about; added to the fact that it would appear that there are additional complicating issues relating to possible discrimination claims connected with contributory fault on your part (for example, not submitting a required form) and issues relating to timescales and whether some or all of these complaints are out of time.

One thing that I can tell you with certainty. There is no right to take time of work for any reason, whoever you are and regardless of whether you are an office holder or an employee, with the exception of very limited circumstances connected with pregnancy. Such refusal was thus neither direct nor indirect race discrimination.

[enquirer]

Re: a number of issues ref employment

They forced you to undergo a new PT course without any examination or all clear from a qualified medical practitioner. You were injured as a direct result.

Get a lawyer.

[Eloise01]

Re: a number of issues ref employment

They forced you to undergo a new PT course without any examination or all clear from a qualified medical practitioner. You were injured as a direct result.

Get a lawyer.

And this is why, with the greatest of respect to my colleague, you need the Police Federation and a specialist lawyer - not just any old lawyer. Whether or not you had received the all clear from your own GP or the force GP, a degenerative spine disorder would not have been disclosed by either in an examination, and this condition, which only came to light later required an MRI to identify it. Although nothing prevented you from getting your own GPs opinion whatever amount of pressure you may have been under, which takes very little time to do. I cannot see how you could have not had time to see your GP, albeit, as I said, I cannot see how it would have helped unless they had conducted an MRI or refused permission for the training on the basis that you were unfit. But that was entirely within your hands and your control to arrange.

On the face of it, there is no way that the Police Force can obviously be to blame for a degenerative spine disorder, and nor could they have known about it. The nature and context of police work is such that attributable blame may be difficult to pinpoint. But at the same time, the police have a wide range of substantial packages for dealing with injuries and medical conditions, whether sustained in the course of duties or not. And packages which may be accessed and delivered in a much shorter timescale than the general personal injury claim takes, and are often worth substantially more in the longer term. The likelihood of being able to access what are substantially better terms than those usually available to the general population is one of the up sides of giving up other rights. But the Federation are much better placed to know how best to approach this, as are specialist lawyers. You do not want to spend years in risky litigation except as a last resort.

[enquirer]

Re: a number of issues ref employment

That there had been an initial injury was known.

[Eloise01]

Re: a number of issues ref employment

That there had been an initial injury was known.

Yes. But that it was, or might have been, linked to a degenerative disorder was not. And the fact is that the OP always had the ability to go to their own GP - they did not. I sprained my ankle when I was 11. That was an initial injury. It does not mean anything in relation to a possible risk factor at a later stage unless there is reason to believe it could. The OP has passed the compulsory physical training each year. There was no obvious reason to assume that if they could do that, they could not pass another routine and required physical test. If the OP truly believed that there was a risk, they had options that they could have used and did not use. That would not support the OP's argument. I do not say this because I don't support the OP - it is because this is what the opposing argument will be, and it has definite merit.

[thaitoon]

Re: a number of issues ref employment

hey folks thanks for the comments, i will definately be seeking legal advice - i have a lever arch file full of all emails, correspondence, medical assessments etc

the injury occurred during the defence training in 2010, the force dr and hr have accepted that the training event caused my back injury,

i was injured again doing exactly the same exercise during 2011 after i had reluctantly undertaken this mandatory training, the force dr or my own dr did not say i could do it, it was left up to me by the force dr whose report read as such.

the mri scan was done after the second occurrence, there was over 12 months between the 2 injury incidents. i can accept that the degenerative disc disease may have been present before the 2010 incident as prior to that i had no mri to refer to i was not symptomatic with back ache or other signs of wear and tear

however following the trauma from the first injury due to sharp twisting forces, a repeat of the same trauma through twisting actions during the 2nd injury the damage appeared to be present or manifested itself after the 1st injury events.

the mri shows early degeneration at one set of discs and a proplapse/bulge with a prominent tear causing nerve compression at another disc.

the mri scan/report says i have early degenerative disc damage in the area where the disc has not actually prolapsed therefore in my mind that indicates a 'recent degeneration'
likewise the prolapse could have occurred at either event
i had received physio and was under the care of nhs dr and force dr at the time of the 2nd injury pressure was on the bosses forcewide to clear their 'sick lists', i emailed my bosses showing my reluctance to do the training without the all clear however was pressured into the training by my boss, who was being pressured by his boss to get me off a 'sick list' as i had been a concern for management for over 12 months due to the injury and being on temporary restricted duties.

I wanted the all clear from both drs prior to doing 2nd training however neither dr knew the full extent of the damage only that i had suffered a previous injury to my back whilst undertaking the previous training, they both knew the injury had been problematic for over a year as did hr, training dept and my supervisors.

[enquirer]

Re: a number of issues ref employment

Yes. But that it was, or might have been, linked to a degenerative disorder was not. And the fact is that the OP always had the ability to go to their own GP - they did not. I sprained my ankle when I was 11. That was an initial injury. It does not mean anything in relation to a possible risk factor at a later stage unless there is reason to believe it could. The OP has passed the compulsory physical training each year. There was no obvious reason to assume that if they could do that, they could not pass another routine and required physical test. If the OP truly believed that there was a risk, they had options that they could have used and did not use. That would not support the OP's argument. I do not say this because I don't support the OP - it is because this is what the opposing argument will be, and it has definite merit.

I see your point.

I would however submit that ...

The 'early degenerative disc disease' and 'prolapsed lumbar disc with a tear', are not necessarily linked, although as you rightly suggest, the defence will certainly claim that they are.

Personally, I would guess that the disc disease is probably age related and minor, whilst the prolapsed disc is a direct result of the PT course. Needless to say, this will require a specialist medical opinion.

However, the employer knew that there was a current injury, and then pressured the claimant to proceed with the second course.

the force dr and hr have accepted that the training event caused my back injury [....] the force dr or my own dr did not say i could do it, it was left up to me by the force dr whose report read as such.

This is extremely sloppy. I would suggest that the Duty of Care was not discharged.

The fact that it is now known there was an underlying condition that may have had something to do with the injury might serve to reduce the size of an award later on, but it does not absolve the employer of liability. Nor does the passing of medicals previously, as they predate both incidents.

[Eloise01]

Re: a number of issues ref employment

As I understand it these medical are annual and the OP would still have had to undertake them between the periods in his post, whether on temporary other duties or not. But I do not disagree with you in principle. I simply think that it is likely that the Police will have a good defence, complicated by the fact that they are not employers (so whilst they are not immune to the law, there are differences in the way it is applied), and the OP did not entirely assist their own position - if I seriously considered that something I was about to do, or was considering doing, might aggravate an unhealed injury, I would certainly pop down and consult my GP, which takes all of two days at worst.

To be honest, I am not entirely clear what the OP wants from this situation. They have not really said. But it is certainly the case that their own "union" and specialised advice may crystallise that, and there may be much better ways of achieving it than legal action against the police, which would be long drawn out and risky (and would be for anyone - personal injury claims are always thus).